- Banned
- #126
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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Kouta vs D Jarman
- Thread starter Linx
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The syntax fairy is off with the punctuation elf having a tryst, and sadly, they've missed their scheduled appointment with him.
Jarman had an uncanny ability to look like he was jogging - almost labouring - but no-one could get near him. Watch tapes from the 1997 Finals series, and the 1998 Preliminary Final (the one everyone forgets), and he just has an amazing balance and "pace" that lets him go past the outstretched arms of opponents.
And his ball control and skills - particularly his foot pass - was second to none.
And his ball control and skills - particularly his foot pass - was second to none.
Blue Dawn
Norm Smith Medallist
This isn't too difficult to follow so please focus on what i'm actually posting matey.
I'm not suggesting Kouta ranks higher than Carey. What i posted was that AT HIS PEAK he was bloody unstoppable - including the Round 11 2000 Carlton vs Kanga match at Princes Park where he SMASHED Carey in the first half, then went forward where his 38 possessions included 5 goals.
This isn't too difficult to follow so please focus on what i'm actually posting matey.
This "at his peak" theory is weird.
An unknown bloke kicked 15 goals in the SANFL a few weeks ago. This would be the "peak" performance of his career, obviously. There is another player, for example, who is 300-gamer in the SANFL and averages 3 goals per game, but his highest in one match is only 4.
Are we saying that the unknown player who kicked 15 goals is better than the 300-gamer based on a "peak" performance? Or are we just simply comparing peak performances?
Because if it is purely "peak" performances, and not a discussion of a career, then people will get confused and there is little point of the discussion.
Flukey!
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Jarman
**** he was good, one of the best I have ever seen.
**** he was good, one of the best I have ever seen.
It's like saying I am a better golfer than Tiger Woods because I made a chip-in par on the 13th at <insert golf course here>, but when Tiger played it he shanked his drive and made bogey.
- Banned
- #134
This isn't too difficult to follow so please focus on what i'm actually posting matey.
explaining a ludicrous idea doesn't make it less ludicrous.
if you think Kouta's peak was better than carey's, well you've already said enough.
Blue Dawn
Norm Smith Medallist
pjcrows;8222642[B said:
The actual question asked by the person who posted the thread was, "who was the better player at their peak? Discuss." What about that is so difficult for you to understand?
Blue Dawn
Norm Smith Medallist
It's a fact brightspark, he did smack him - i was there. I'm not comparing Kouta to Carey. I'm saying that Kouta at that time was SO dominant that he minced all comers - including Carey in Round 11 that year.
tuna sammich
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a big misconception when it comes to kouta is that he had only one good season.
in a way his 2000 form has been a cause of this belief. he was so good in this year that when people compare the rest of his career they compare it to this year.
from 1995 to 2001 he would have been in the top 10 players in the competition and although he was 'ordinary' in 97 and 98 he was still much better than your average player.
also from 2002 to present he has changed his game due to his injuries. nowadays he is a very effective inside midfielder whereas earlier in his career he was a flashy midfielder/part time kpp.
people also forget how good of a finals player he is due to carlton being so crap as of late. he lacks the consistency of buckley, hird, roo, harvey but his ability to perform in big games partly makes up for this.
a true champion of the game and carlton football club.
in a way his 2000 form has been a cause of this belief. he was so good in this year that when people compare the rest of his career they compare it to this year.
from 1995 to 2001 he would have been in the top 10 players in the competition and although he was 'ordinary' in 97 and 98 he was still much better than your average player.
also from 2002 to present he has changed his game due to his injuries. nowadays he is a very effective inside midfielder whereas earlier in his career he was a flashy midfielder/part time kpp.
people also forget how good of a finals player he is due to carlton being so crap as of late. he lacks the consistency of buckley, hird, roo, harvey but his ability to perform in big games partly makes up for this.
a true champion of the game and carlton football club.
- Banned
- #138
brightspark? fact? you think one game proves his peak was higher?
I don't care if you were there, or what you thought you saw - it's irrelevant.
I'm not comparing Kouta to Carey. I'm saying that Kouta at that time was SO dominant that he minced all comers - including Carey in Round 11 that year.
big deal, he had a purple patch of a few games. so what? besides that's very different to saying his peak was higher than Carey's.
- Banned
- #139
It's a bullshit question anyway. At his PEAK, Ashley Sampi was a great footballer.
Much better than Marc Murphy. Unfortunately, we didn't see much of his peak.
Kouta was good in 1995. He hadn't done anything before that.
He did NOTHING in 1996, 1997 and 1998.
He was serviceable in 1999 (playing as a defender)
He was great in 2000
He was okay in 2001 (playing with a bad knee)
2002 and onwards, he didn't do much.
At their peak, Graeme Teasdale and Corey McKernan were arguably better than Koutoufides.
Jarman was able to perform at his peak every other week.
He had better footy smarts than Kouta and he used the ball better.
Much better than Marc Murphy. Unfortunately, we didn't see much of his peak.
Kouta was good in 1995. He hadn't done anything before that.
He did NOTHING in 1996, 1997 and 1998.
He was serviceable in 1999 (playing as a defender)
He was great in 2000
He was okay in 2001 (playing with a bad knee)
2002 and onwards, he didn't do much.
At their peak, Graeme Teasdale and Corey McKernan were arguably better than Koutoufides.
Jarman was able to perform at his peak every other week.
He had better footy smarts than Kouta and he used the ball better.
Forget who you support for a moment and ask who you would take if you had the chance to draft an 18-year-old version of either player right now - and I think those who were honest would have to say it would be an extremely tough call: the prototype athlete footballer v one of the most skilled users of the ball we've seen. Very different players, but both superb ''at their peak''.
I've seen Jarman win grand finals and state games - and I've seen him tagged out of games. I've seen Kouta turn in some of the best individual performances of all time, but it's fair to say even pre-injuries the planets had to be in alignment for him to dominate. When he reached the point that he could produce his best consistently his career was wrecked by a series of injuries.
An interesting comparison, inevitably derailed by the usual ''my dad is better than your dad'' standard of arguments.
I've seen Jarman win grand finals and state games - and I've seen him tagged out of games. I've seen Kouta turn in some of the best individual performances of all time, but it's fair to say even pre-injuries the planets had to be in alignment for him to dominate. When he reached the point that he could produce his best consistently his career was wrecked by a series of injuries.
An interesting comparison, inevitably derailed by the usual ''my dad is better than your dad'' standard of arguments.
- Banned
- #141
kernahan beats jarman hands down.
need i remind the hawks and the crow fans who make the laughable claim that jarman was even half as good.
both players won grand finals, yet kernahan beats jarman hands sown in all playing achievements.
and secondly jarman didnt win those grand finals, why else did mcleod win the norm smith medal.
as i pointed out kernahans medals and awards, in comparison to jarman made jarman quite the fairy.
did jarman win a best and fairest or even top the club goalkicking in any of the premierships, let alone captain them.
and last but not least, get the football record guide, look up total marks by each player, past or present, work out the games average and total marks taken by those players,
kernahan is THE ONLY PLAYER TO AVERAGE 2 MARKS A GAME OVERALL.
Not even carey, paul roos, dunstall, lockett, brererton, van da ha, daniher or stewart loewe got that close.
they all are around the 1.8, 1.7 mark.
that puts sticks in a league of his own.
as the rest of the stats i repeat them.
kernahan captained flags, jarman didnt.
kicked more goals, longets captain and best captain ever.
best record for goals in a grand final, 7
jarman 6
ones in a premiership, the others in a runner up
ones a best and fairest, captain and leading club goalkicker, first season at the club and wins the premiership.
the other never did so.
and kernahan is equal ranked for the record number of representing all australian.
only platten, madden, bradley and robert harvey are equal with him.
facts are facts and kernahan is up there with the best ever, also in the hall of fame, jarman isnt.
I'd still have Jarman in my side over Sticks anyday
tribey
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facts are facts and kernahan is up there with the best ever, also in the hall of fame, jarman isnt.
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Maybe Peter is, as his name suggests, still in 1979
Maybe Peter is, as his name suggests, still in 1979
10 year peak >>>>>>>>>>>>1-2 years. I think Jars earnt his money for a far longer period of time, however, Kouta does have him covered when it comes to dancing... The whole comparison is an unrealistic one anyway, as they were both totally different players. One was an athlete with some football ability and the other was not an athlete, but with a sublime footballing talent. Both great players, but completely different like comparing apples and oranges or comparing Chad Cornes to Scott West.
- Banned
- #147
yeah and what trade mcleod for him.
then u would lose back to back grand finals.
at least with kernahan u know what ur getting.
a matchwiner at all costs.
with jarman is never a sure thing.
- Banned
- #148
well kernahan wasnt around in 1979, so i wouldnt the faintest idea who he was.
didnt debut for glenelg till 1981.
didnt debut for carlton till 1986.
if u cant discredit the facts and achievements then say so, otherwise u should fast forward to the present for it appears ur in 1979.
much like groundhog day.
- Banned
- #149
well again ur very much like the other CROW FANS very typical, u cant defend mcleod other than ur crappy opinions, the facts are there and cant be discredited.
u always know u are right especially when others trade insults and get off the topic.
MCLEOD WAS BACK TO BACK NORM SMITH MEDALLIST.
NOT JARMAN
tribey
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Uh, I was making the point that Jarman very much IS in the Hall of Fame.
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