Player Watch Lachie Schultz

[No SPIN]

It's great that he had a very impactful last 4 minutes and we won the game as a result. But let's not kid ourselves into now thinking he's had a good year, or even had a good game. Fact is, prior to the last 4 minutes, he missed two shots that you want your small forwards to nail more often than not, and dropped a chest mark in the goalsquare late with only mild contested pressure.

His misses against Sydney and Fremantle (which again you want your small forward to kick 9 times out of 10) both would have iced those games that we ended up losing, and as a result of losing them we will now almost certainly miss the finals.

I do hope he find more polish from here on, as if he does he would be a key part of our forwardline, but if he doesn't then I don't think he has a place.

FMD - what don’t you get about a player that took responsibility, never dropped his head, and stayed composed to win us the game off his own boot?
If you don’t recognise those qualities as fundamental to building elite culture then I can’t help.
His standing amongst his teams mates soared last night.

Unlike you they aren’t dwelling on his past performances.

 

[No SPIN]

Here’s the stats for the player we effectively moved on to give up a first round pick.

Jack Ginnivan of the Hawthorn Hawks Player Profile and AFL Stats

Jack Ginnivan of the Hawthorn Hawks profile and AFL statistics.

www.footywire.com

23 goals, 50 tackles.
And a game in hand to improve those stats.

Give me his stats on - effort, aggression, pressure, discipline, resilience and we can have a discussion.

 

[No SPIN]

Markov was solid defensively last year and gave us a couple of line breaking dashes a game. He was the safer bet. The gap between jfns best and worst both within and between games is enormous.

And a much bigger body offers far more flexibility on which opponent he takes.

 

[VinnieB]

It's great that he had a very impactful last 4 minutes and we won the game as a result. But let's not kid ourselves into now thinking he's had a good year, or even had a good game. Fact is, prior to the last 4 minutes, he missed two shots that you want your small forwards to nail more often than not, and dropped a chest mark in the goalsquare late with only mild contested pressure.

His misses against Sydney and Fremantle (which again you want your small forward to kick 9 times out of 10) both would have iced those games that we ended up losing, and as a result of losing them we will now almost certainly miss the finals.

I do hope he find more polish from here on, as if he does he would be a key part of our forwardline, but if he doesn't then I don't think he has a place.

I thought Mason Cox’s comments this morning about Schultz were interesting.

He said that he is one of his favourite players to have played with because he does the hard off the ball stuff such as blocking against opposition ruckmen and key backmen. Makes it a lot easier for our forwards.

Those are the sort of things we don’t necessarily see. It’s easy for us armchair experts to judge on the flashy stuff or in Schultz’s case, how many goals he kicks and misses.

However, it’s the unselfish work which makes the players around him better.

You don’t know that until you hear it directly from coaches and teammates.

 

[jmac70]

25 out and doesn’t make the distance, then goes and misses a tackle in the Centre square.
What is this bloke capable of?

Winning the game.

 

[manicpie]

FMD - what don’t you get about a player that took responsibility, never dropped his head, and stayed composed to win us the game off his own boot?
If you don’t recognise those qualities as fundamental to building elite culture then I can’t help.
His standing amongst his teams mates soared last night.

Unlike you they aren’t dwelling on his past performances.

His past performances have been fine. It's not unusual to see him all over the ground including chopping out in defence. He covers more ground than most small forwards and his blocking and tackling are elite

 

[JOELY]

That goal was right up there with the best few moments of the year. When he received the handball I had a look towards the middle, and he had free players, but all I could think was he's going to try and hit a target and fluff it. It probably would have been the team thing, but having the shot was higher percentage, and for a guy that's been in his own head all year to make the instinctive decision was a great thing to see. Just brilliant.

 

[Markfs]

Yes, absolutely. Any reference to price we paid shouldn't be reflected on Shultz.

Any reference to not contributing on the ground they way we need him to should be though.

which player has contributed to the team to the required level this year?

 

[jimmy35]

The entire AFL would if Owies did

Have you ever seen him play, he’d miss.

 

[Ugene41]

It's great that he had a very impactful last 4 minutes and we won the game as a result. But let's not kid ourselves into now thinking he's had a good year, or even had a good game. Fact is, prior to the last 4 minutes, he missed two shots that you want your small forwards to nail more often than not, and dropped a chest mark in the goalsquare late with only mild contested pressure.

His misses against Sydney and Fremantle (which again you want your small forward to kick 9 times out of 10) both would have iced those games that we ended up losing, and as a result of losing them we will now almost certainly miss the finals.

I do hope he find more polish from here on, as if he does he would be a key part of our forwardline, but if he doesn't then I don't think he has a place.

You can't talk about a small forward performance and dismiss the 5 minutes of magic. That's like talking about Naicos game and dismissing his second quarter performance.

Credit where credit is due, that was a match winning performance from him. He just needs to more consistently deliver that (like Elliott/Hill have done before him) to at least match the player he was last year. That needs to be his minimum standard. Still doesn't justify the cost as it was close to a Rankine trade cost level.

Also set shot wise, Hill has been consistently bad since the bye. I have less confidence in Hills finishing at the moment than most other players atm.

 

[jimmy35]

I thought Mason Cox’s comments this morning about Schultz were interesting.

He said that he is one of his favourite players to have played with because he does the hard off the ball stuff such as blocking against opposition ruckmen and key backmen. Makes it a lot easier for our forwards.

Those are the sort of things we don’t necessarily see. It’s easy for us armchair experts to judge on the flashy stuff or in Schultz’s case, how many goals he kicks and misses.

However, it’s the unselfish work which makes the players around him better.

You don’t know that until you hear it directly from coaches and teammates.

Or until a coach and his group move on a player that won’t display required traits like these.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

If we beat the Swans and take the Freo game from earlier in the year we are 13.5 wins with a game to go and almost a lock for finals and the pressure on Schultz would be nowhere near as big. I mean there is a world where we are right in the finals race this year.

Hus finishing has been below average but his effort has always been 100%. For that reason, I am much happier with him than Ginnivan.

Hopefully that match winning last quarter gives him the confidence for next year. I smell a resurgent Pies in 2025.

 

[Jelly Bean]

You can't talk about a small forward performance and dismiss the 5 minutes of magic. That's like talking about Naicos game and dismissing his second quarter performance.

Credit where credit is due, that was a match winning performance from him. He just needs to more consistently deliver that (like Elliott/Hill have done before him) to at least match the player he was last year. That needs to be his minimum standard. Still doesn't justify the cost as it was close to a Rankine trade cost level.

Also set shot wise, Hill has been consistently bad since the bye. I have less confidence in Hills finishing at the moment than most other players atm.

Geez, if I get picky I'd argue that his performance wasn't a match winning performance. Just because he kicked two goals in the game, doesn't make it a match winning performance. Possibly even more so given he didn't kick the matchwinner.

There is an argument to say that you can't be considered to have delivered a match winning performance if you aren't in the top 5 players on the ground. Otherwise, it would be more accurate possibly to argue that McCreery's was the match winning performance given he kicked the match winning goal (and another earlier in the game to match Schultz' goal impact)

 

[Kirby]

Completely agree. If we ignore every single thing he does that good and concentrate on every mistake he makes then he’s a bust.

And the only knock on him this year is his kicking at goal. If he’d kicked straighter everyone would shut up.

The thing is that he’s usually a very reliable kick for goal and this year is an outlier in terms of accuracy.

Watch him at games how hard he works and how hard he is as a player. He gives 100% all the time.

You wait to see how he goes in this team in the next few years. He’s a ripper.

 

[jimmy35]

And the only knock on him this year is his kicking at goal. If he’d kicked straighter everyone would shut up.

The thing is that he’s usually a very reliable kick for goal and this year is an outlier in terms of accuracy.

Watch him at games how hard he works and how hard he is as a player. He gives 100% all the time.

You wait to see how he goes in this team in the next few years. He’s a ripper.

Left 10 or 12 goals behind in my opinion. In his new club, learning a new game plan and playing for the biggest club in the land not some shit tangle side.

 

[stormskye]

freo would be top 4 with him this year.

 

[Ugene41]

Geez, if I get picky I'd argue that his performance wasn't a match winning performance. Just because he kicked two goals in the game, doesn't make it a match winning performance. Possibly even more so given he didn't kick the matchwinner.

There is an argument to say that you can't be considered to have delivered a match winning performance if you aren't in the top 5 players on the ground. Otherwise, it would be more accurate possibly to argue that McCreery's was the match winning performance given he kicked the match winning goal (and another earlier in the game to match Schultz' goal impact)

If you look at Supercoach rankings, Schultz was ranked top 5 for us.

Agree with McCreery. It's why I love him more. Chronically undervalued and evidence of what can come from developing our draftees with talent. Both of their match winning efforts were needed.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Yes, absolutely. Any reference to price we paid shouldn't be reflected on Shultz.

Any reference to not contributing on the ground they way we need him to should be though.

According to McRae, Schultz has been contributing on the ground the way we need him to. Maybe it’s supporters who just aren’t getting it right. Missed set shots isn’t the only metric the team assesses him against obviously. I certainly think he’s had a good season.

 

[Mollythedolly]

It was a post match press conference after a win. If the reporters had have asked him about Bytel, he would have been equally effusive.

Disagree. Not a moments hesitation or qualification. No “he’s building..” or “he’s come a long way…”, nothing.

 

[Doc1763]

Shouldn’t be tolerated by the mods.
Game day thread should be held to the same standard as all threads.

agreed. There is having a go at a player, but this was just way too much

 

[Doc1763]

We are all at the game.
I haven’t posted in one (whilst at the game for years) and in general don’t even bother reading it.
It’s our version of free speech and giving people enough rope.
If something breaks the rules it is reported and acted upon by the wider Mod community if our team can’t.

DinoSoar Gone Critical Maggie5

That's fair enough.
There was nothing worthy of being deleted by the Mods, but people really should think before they post, especially about one of our own.

 

[Mollythedolly]

On the Bobby point you made - I think that's a fair point. Bobby has missed a bunch of shots as well, and certainly doesn't do the tough stuff that Schultz does, so I can't reconcile why I am less critical of Bobby. Recency bias possibly from the GF, but that's not fair. I think Bobby is more constructive / creative when he gets the ball up the ground, but also the fact that some of Shultz' misses have come at times in games where we really needed them to go through.

Every miss comes at a time we really needed them to go through.

 

[sideswipe]

That's fair enough.
There was nothing worthy of being deleted by the Mods, but people really should think before they post, especially about one of our own.

Good news is the club/player baggers won’t be around too much this week. The rock spiders go missing after a win.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[sr36]

According to McRae, Schultz has been contributing on the ground the way we need him to. Maybe it’s supporters who just aren’t getting it right. Missed set shots isn’t the only metric the team assesses him against obviously. I certainly think he’s had a good season.

I don't think we should judge a coach's opinion above that of fans ranting after losses.

 

[Mollythedolly]

I think Noble's lack of size to compete adequately defensively was also a concern.

Markov has fallen off a cliff since, but agree at the time appeared the better defensive bet.

Markov seemed to have rediscovered all the elements that saw him leapfrog JN last year in yesterdays VFL game.