Lights Out!

[smokingjacket]

I'll

Just need some facts. Is there another country or state in the world that today, 16 years into the 21st century, relies on 40% wind power for its electricity?

Can you assist?

Denmark, I believe they're the model. Their offshore wind is cheaper than coal before offsets most of the time. Similar situation to the bight if they wanted to go that way. They have some baseload capacity from trashfuel/biomass generators and they're linked in to the North European Network if they need extra. It's normally pretty steady, they're consistently high 40's often 60% percent of the grid from their wind.

Germany is getting up there, more impressive for an advanced manufacturing country. +30 approaching 40% renewables. From memory wind is about 15% of the mix; they went pretty hard on solar.

Holland and the UK are up there too for wind. I think the UK is about 15% wind with a lot more going in but EU efficiency standards have wiped a huge amount of demand out of the system so they're in a similar boat to us in trying to grease out established energy producers on long term contracts so they can put in new capacity.

Anyway I don't understand your point? Are you suggesting that the wind turbines stopped for some reason in the storm? As has been covered already, it's clearly a network problem.

 

[Goldenblue]

Even better you have a good chance of getting a Labor government at your next election, so WA too will be able to enjoy the benefits of windfarm energy.

You mean the same ALP government that gave us a surplus that the Liberals squandered?

Jane, the experts have said that regardless of what was powering the state; ie wind, coal, solar, whatever, with the magnitude of that storm, power would have caused massive blackouts anyway. Now, I would rather listen to people who are involved in the weather and the science, rather than some politician who wants to push his ideology and agenda on me. Regardless of what happens in other countries we are still going in the right way with renewable energy and are one of the leaders in that technology.

The mining boom is over. Time to look at different avenues to resurrect our country.

 

[CM86]

The power systems experts that I work with (the blokes who designed iron ore industry power systems that get hit by cyclones a couple of times every single year and don't fail) speculated;

The simplest explanation is;

1) when SA turned off their wind turbines (representing 40% of their power) it caused a huge spike in demand that threatened to take down Victoria's and NSW's as well. So the other states just cut the infected limb free.

2) How could just 23 transmission towers carrying a single line shut down a whole state? When it went down it sent a cascading shock wave tripping every protection system en mass. Normally that shock gets absorbed by coal fired turbo generators spinning at 3000rpms. The more generators you have spread out the better the system absorb surges - but that simply doesn't exist in SA because (the fools ) shut them ALL down.

Power system experts.

Is that that they just put all their power lines underground? Literally groundbreaking stuff...

From what you've told us that they speculated, they have no idea what they are talking about.
For starters... "turning off the wind turbines (representing 40% of their power) blah blah infected limb".
Wind turbines don't represent 40% of their power...

I think they think you're an idiot, so they just threw some random shit at you, knowing you wouldn't question it, or understand it.



Do you have any proof or evidence to support your claim that the power outage was caused by renewable energy?

The answer is "No". You don't and you never will, because the power outage had nothing to do with renewable energy.

 

[Goldenblue]

As an aside Jane, if you need to bring up a loopy NK dictator, ISIS, and calling posters whom disagree with you names such as Admiral and Comrade to prove your point, shows your extreme right wing ideology is seriously blinding your judgement.

I can understand why a lot of people here do not take you seriously.

 

[medusala]

Denmark, I believe they're the model. Their offshore wind is cheaper than coal before offsets most of the time. Similar situation to the bight if they wanted to go that way. They have some baseload capacity from trashfuel/biomass generators and they're linked in to the North European Network if they need extra. It's normally pretty steady, they're consistently high 40's often 60% percent of the grid from their wind.

Denmark has reached over 100% of its power needs on days with very strong winds. Very high electricity prices though.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Denmark has reached over 100% of its power needs on days with very strong winds. Very high electricity prices though.

Name something which Isn't Expensive in Denmark TBO. I dont think the fact their renewable energy is the main reason of the $$$. 2 months ago i paid 40 krone for a regular Cappuccino

 

[GuruJane]

Ok here we go

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_major_power_outages#2016

On September 21, 2016, a full power system collapse occurred on the island of Puerto Rico affecting its 3.5 million inhabitants. The power outage, popularly referred to as the "Apagón" (translated as "super outage") has been labeled as the largest in Puerto Rico history not caused by an atmospheric event. The outage occurred after two transmission lines, with power running up to 230,000 volts, failed. [156]

Sounds similar to SA. 80% fossil fuel reliance. SO looks like When Transmission lines go down, Shit ****s up, Who knew?

Puerto Rico is a small Caribbean island, about half the size of Cyprus. Not surprising that it could suffer a complete blackout.

 

[madmug]

Puerto Rico is a small Caribbean island, about half the size of Cyprus. Not surprising that it could suffer a complete blackout.

Even ISIS has managed to keep the electricity going.

Why are we bothering with this sort of rubbish? Clearly Turnbull, Barnaby & Pine & the BF attack puppies are simply trying to deflect from the LNP backpacker tax forkup.

 

[GuruJane]

I'll


Denmark, I believe they're the model. Their offshore wind is cheaper than coal before offsets most of the time. Similar situation to the bight if they wanted to go that way. They have some baseload capacity from trashfuel/biomass generators and they're linked in to the North European Network if they need extra. It's normally pretty steady, they're consistently high 40's often 60% percent of the grid from their wind.

Germany is getting up there, more impressive for an advanced manufacturing country. +30 approaching 40% renewables. From memory wind is about 15% of the mix; they went pretty hard on solar.

Holland and the UK are up there too for wind. I think the UK is about 15% wind with a lot more going in but EU efficiency standards have wiped a huge amount of demand out of the system so they're in a similar boat to us in trying to grease out established energy producers on long term contracts so they can put in new capacity.

Anyway I don't understand your point? Are you suggesting that the wind turbines stopped for some reason in the storm? As has been covered already, it's clearly a network problem.

Thanks for the info. Just wanted to know if there were any.

This Northern European Network - it works off wind too?

 

[GuruJane]

This is all to do with economic rationalism, privatisation and the national power grid. Power stations in South Australia were shut down because it was cheaper to generate power at the Victorian coal-fields and send it over a long distance high voltage transmission line. But that's the problem, one transmission line with no backup, contingency or alternative route, because that would be too expensive, right.

So if Old Mother Nature trips over the extension lead the power goes off.

Well that'll all be solved in the near future, won't it, when Daniel bulldozes Hazelwood and puts Victoria onto windmills too. Then we can both enjoy regular entire statewide blackouts.

 

[Fire]

Well that'll all be solved in the near future, won't it, when Daniel bulldozes Hazelwood and puts Victoria onto windmills too. Then we can both enjoy regular entire statewide blackouts.

Why do you claim that renewables were responsible?

 

[smokingjacket]

Denmark has reached over 100% of its power needs on days with very strong winds. Very high electricity prices though.

Lot of investment going in though. You'd expect prices to be on the higher side. If they work out a storage option they're going to have a massive competitive advantage in the EU.

 

[smokingjacket]

Thanks for the info. Just wanted to know if there were any.

This Northern European Network - it works off wind too?

A smart grid of offshore wind power that links the UK and Northern Europe is in development but at the moment its just a mixed source grid linked in to the greater EU grid.

 

[Docker Clint]

The power has been out a couple of times today and we're supplied by a coal fired station. Not sure how this can happen if it's only renewables that are unreliable.

 

[nylexbandit]

The power has been out a couple of times today and we're supplied by a coal fired station. Not sure how this can happen if it's only renewables that are unreliable.

If I may respond on behalf of the conservatives, i believe this would be due to a butterfly effect - when a blade turns in the Yorke peninsula it causes a chain reaction that harms our precious coal fired generators.

 

[pazza]

Just because a pciture is worth a thousand words:

... the wind turbines are still standing AFAIK.

/thread....the truth HURTS!!!!

 

[pazza]

It does turn out that you cannot operate wind turbines when wind speeds exceed 120kph as they did in South Australia last week. Not safe to do so.

Throw in the fact that the picture Admiral put up shows how devastating the actual storm was over there and you get the whole picture.

Had the inter-conmnector remained switched on, the affects of the storm would have hit Victoria's power supply (in regards to power surges from lightning strikes).

So no..renewables were not responsible. The evidence clears them.

 

[Xsess]

It does turn out that you cannot operate wind turbines when wind speeds exceed 120kph as they did in South Australia last week. Not safe to do so..

And when they switch off the wind turbines the state becomes reliant on traditional power generation - in this cause 100% supplied via overland transmission.

Throw in the fact that the picture Admiral put up shows how devastating the actual storm was over there and you get the whole picture...

So you switch off the wind turbines in +120km winds and rely on overland transmission from as far away as NSW? And transmission towers and lines are fragile and prone to wind damage. What could go wrong?

Had the inter-conmnector remained switched on, the affects of the storm would have hit Victoria's power supply (in regards to power surges from lightning strikes)....

Of course when SA shutdown 40% of their power it caused a massive spike in power demand. As I said earlier Victoria just cut the cancer free. I also mentioned how traditional power stations absorb surges caused by lightning strike or when lines go down.

So no..renewables were not responsible. The evidence clears them.

Lol

 

[CM86]

And when they switch off the wind turbines the state becomes reliant on traditional power generation - in this cause 100% supplied via overland transmission.



So you switch off the wind turbines in +120km winds and rely on overland transmission from as far away as NSW? And transmission towers and lines are fragile and prone to wind damage. What could go wrong?



Of course when SA shutdown 40% of their power it caused a massive spike in power demand. As I said earlier Victoria just cut the cancer free. I also mentioned how traditional power stations absorb surges caused by lightning strike or when lines go down.



Lol

You're such a troll.

It's already been explained to you that wind power doesn't supply 40% of SA power... just that it could provide up to 40%.

But like most of your cult, you don't care for facts and evidence. They just distract you from the issue at hand.

 

[Xsess]

You're such a troll.

It's already been explained to you that wind power doesn't supply 40% of SA power... just that it could provide up to 40%.

But like most of your cult, you don't care for facts and evidence. They just distract you from the issue at hand.

43%

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2014/south-australia-wind-energy-jumps-to-43-in-july-88992

 

[CM86]

43%

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2014/south-australia-wind-energy-jumps-to-43-in-july-88992

You should read the article before you post it. But you're blind to most things, so the article is probably hard to read.

It can provide up to 43%.
Including solar, renewables could provide up to half the power for SA.

And it definitely doesn't support your OP that renewable energy caused the blackout.

Also, great little quote from your article:

“This technology has been a clear wind-win for South Australia, generating more than $5 billion of investment over the last decade, creating hundreds of jobs and providing the state with a cleaner power supply – at a low cost to consumers"​

Sounds like a net positive! Are you secretly a fan of renewable energy?

 

[Xsess]

Including solar, renewables could provide up to half the power for SA.

Except when its too windy or the sun isn't out.

Then its 100% reliant on coal power transmitted from Victoria and NSW which is fine except when its windy or the power line otherwise gets cut. Then the whole state is plunged into darkness.

 

[JackOutback]

Embarrassing thread; this is what happens when you engage mouth before brain. But it's ok, happens to the best of us, even prime ministers.

 

[Power Raid]

Name something which Isn't Expensive in Denmark TBO. I dont think the fact their renewable energy is the main reason of the $$$. 2 months ago i paid 40 krone for a regular Cappuccino

Electric kettles aren't cheap to run!

 

[Power Raid]

I'd prefer to wait for a report of findings before getting to excited about a black out.

My gut feel is those eastern staters shut down their power supply to SA was the main issue. Was that due to the inability to meet the demand/ drain with SA shutting down its renewable power generation during the storm or due to damage transmission infrastructure?

Time will tell