Lions vs Cats vs Hawks - Which dynasty is the best?

[Connoisseur]

St Kilda in 2009 didn't lose a game until Rd 20, and even then only because they skipped training for the movies. Ross Lyon rested half the side in the final month, could have easily gone 22-0.

Collingwood were dominant in 2010, and even better in 2011, the only side they lost to all season was Geelong.

They were great sides.

It's a bit like trying to argue that every draft year provides the same quality of young players. If that were true then one could mount a case that the 2003 draft is roughly the equal of the 2001 class. In hindsight NO semi knowledgeable football supporter would swap the 2001 class for those drafted in 2003.

You can't control when a team will rise to be become a flag contender and it's just so happened that Geelong's window coincided with the rise of 3 great quality sides (St. Kilda, Hawthorn and Collingwood). Geelong won 3 of those tough GF contests in that period but it could as easily been Collingwood and Saints with 2 flags and Geelong none or some other combination. Sydney and in particularly the West Coast and Fremantle teams pale in comparison to the calibre of those sides. Them's the breaks I suppose.

 

[Matt Slade]

 

[bungalow_bill]

This is true. Even 1995 when we won 16 games in a row to win premiership, it was Brisbane Bears of the time that gave up the best game in finals. They were still very young list though and lots of adjustments to be made in coming years with Fitzroy players joining in like Chris Johnson, Pike, Molloy etc etc. When they fell down in 1998 it was not the talent that caused it but the disharmony holding them back. When they finally got their shit together there was no stopping them with a good coach they knew how to drive them all in same direction. They smashed us in 1999 first week of finals. They were nearly ready then. I think Voss got injured right at end of that game. Similarly in 2000 I think Voss got injured or I might be confusing from year before. In anycase from 1999 onwards they were going to be a serious contender for a good number of years.

Think Voss broke his leg in '98. but regardless it gave us Des Headland who was a key player in our rise to the top

 

[Pessimistic]

It's a bit like trying to argue that every draft year provides the same quality of young players. If that were true then one could mount a case that the 2003 draft is roughly the equal of the 2001 class. In hindsight NO semi knowledgeable football supporter would swap the 2001 class for those drafted in 2003.

You can't control when a team will rise to be become a flag contender and it's just so happened that Geelong's window coincided with the rise of 3 great quality sides (St. Kilda, Hawthorn and Collingwood). Geelong won 3 of those tough GF contests in that period but it could as easily been Collingwood and Saints with 2 flags and Geelong none or some other combination. Sydney and in particularly the West Coast and Fremantle teams pale in comparison to the calibre of those sides. Them's the breaks I suppose.

That's why we smashed them instead of 'hard fought wins' as you put it. That logic suggests the cats 2007 flag came 'easy'

Also Clarko's first win as Hawks Coach? v Brisbane in 2005. Thats after six losses in a row over four years

 

[dangerwood]

That's why we smashed them instead of 'hard fought wins' as you put it. That logic suggests the cats 2007 flag came 'easy'

Also Clarko's first win as Hawks Coach? v Brisbane in 2005. Thats after six losses in a row over four years

It did. 2007 was a weak football year. West Coast shouldve been stronger but lost the plot. If it hadnt been so long since we won a flag I think I lot of people would be very dismissive of that victory in terms of worth.
As a cats fan I'm personally chuffed with our 09, 11 wins. Stkilda and Collingwood were great teams.

 

[PhatBoy]

That's why we smashed them instead of 'hard fought wins' as you put it. That logic suggests the cats 2007 flag came 'easy'

Also Clarko's first win as Hawks Coach? v Brisbane in 2005. Thats after six losses in a row over four years

It did, relative to the others.

 

[JackOutback]

It did. 2007 was a weak football year. West Coast shouldve been stronger but lost the plot. If it hadnt been so long since we won a flag I think I lot of people would be very dismissive of that victory in terms of worth.
As a cats fan I'm personally chuffed with our 09, 11 wins. Stkilda and Collingwood were great teams.

2007 should have been Cats vs Eagles again, with Judd, Cousins, Kerr and Cox at their peak. Would have been a game to remember.

 

[ThatsjustDappa]

Those truly great sides won one flag over 3 years! I'd rate Sydney 12-16 as a better side than both of those. (And yes I'm aware they won no more flags, but I'm not calling them a truly great side)

Nah Sydney lost 5-6 games every single year in the H&A from 12-16.....a pretty damn good side but not great IMO....

 

[Macpotata]

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...ou-take-football.1186355/page-5#post-54259191


a few of you lads should take a look at this thread. I think you'll fly off the ****en charts.


That's good!

 

[Macpotata]

I always felt WCE should have played us in the granny. Said it in the what if thread, Cousins and Judd gone vs Port in the 1tst week of the finals. Eagles were far superior that year, but they couldn't put all their players on the park.

Cousins ****ed em. Then Judd went down, WCE also lost Kerr for the Pies game. Was Cox playing? In any case agree with Dangerwood. 07 was a weak year. When ya smash 2 of the top 4 sides in finals by 100+ points it speaks for itself.

Pies were bloody good and gave us a real run. Would have given Port a hiding too had they got there.

 

[Iceman!]

You aren't a great team by winning home & away season games. Doesn't matter how many you win as long as you win enough to be a chance come finals. Good teams finish top 4, great teams win premierships.

 

[JackOutback]

You aren't a great team by winning home & away season games. Doesn't matter how many you win as long as you win enough to be a chance come finals. Good teams finish top 4, great teams win premierships.

To be fair, one-off games to decide the whole season does lend itself to the possibility of upsets. Not that it happens often, mind you.

 

[Sixpence]

To be fair, one-off games to decide the whole season does lend itself to the possibility of upsets. Not that it happens often, mind you.

True, but you've got to get there first. And that's no mean feat.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Offset though by relative nobody opposition Hawthorn had in their threepeat seasons (including Geelong).

It's funny when you get a true Champion in any field of sport, that their beaten opposition is suddenly 'not as good' as the previous generation's champions.

None of those Geelong teams from 2007-11 would have troubled Hawthorn any more than the teams matched against them.

In 2008, a Hawthorn team far inferior to the great HFC teams from 2012-15 pantsed Geelong in a GF.

Geelong were getting close to the peak of their powers.

Nice try though.

 

[Connoisseur]

2007 should have been Cats vs Eagles again, with Judd, Cousins, Kerr and Cox at their peak. Would have been a game to remember.

To be fair Port did beat us at Kardinia Park in Round 21. I certainly didn't come into the granny thinking it would be a walk in the park for the Cats, on the contrary I was having recurring nightmares of the past 4 GFs.

I just think Choco showed a lack of faith in his players via comments he made about Geelong (pathetically trying to play mindgames which is what only those who lack self belief in their abilities do) through the media which probably made Port players doubt themselves a bit resulting in his boys shitting themselves on the big stage.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

None of those Geelong teams from 2007-11 would have troubled Hawthorn any more than the teams matched against them.

In 2008, a Hawthorn team far inferior to the great HFC teams from 2012-15 pantsed Geelong in a GF.

Geelong were getting close to the peak of their powers.

Nice try though.

Terrible pre-teen logic.

 

[PhatBoy]

It's funny when you get a true Champion in any field of sport, that their beaten opposition is suddenly 'not as good' as the previous generation's champions.

None of those Geelong teams from 2007-11 would have troubled Hawthorn any more than the teams matched against them.

In 2008, a Hawthorn team far inferior to the great HFC teams from 2012-15 pantsed Geelong in a GF.

Geelong were getting close to the peak of their powers.

Nice try though.

Wouldn’t have troubled any of the Hawthorn teams?

No one should be dismissing the Hawthorn teams that win flags, or talking down the teams the won against.

However the cats team from round 6, 2007 onwards, won more matches over their next 200 games than any side in the history of the entire sport at the elite level. To suggest that they couldn’t have tested the hawks more than the sides they actually faced - especially when you consider that far inferior Cats teams were consistently beating the hawks nearly every time they met - is ridiculous.

 

[Connoisseur]

It's funny when you get a true Champion in any field of sport, that their beaten opposition is suddenly 'not as good' as the previous generation's champions.

None of those Geelong teams from 2007-11 would have troubled Hawthorn any more than the teams matched against them.

In 2008, a Hawthorn team far inferior to the great HFC teams from 2012-15 pantsed Geelong in a GF.

Geelong were getting close to the peak of their powers.

Nice try though.

A Geelong side with several C grade inexperienced youngin replacements (since several champions had retired like Ling, Scarlett, Joel Corey, Ottens, etc..) still somehow regularly beat the great 3 peat Hawks team in 2012 and 2013 and came within a whisker of upsetting them in the 2013 Prelim.

Personally I think the 2008 Hawks side defecates over any of the 2012-2015 versions given that after their 'flukey' 2008 flag they never got a look-in until the Geelong and St Kilda sides got old (Geelong and St Kilda's best players were on average 5 years older than the Hawks elite players) and Collingwood does what they do best and that is self implode due to Eddie's hard on for their golden boy Bucks. That to me speaks volume about where I'd place Hawthorn's achievements in the grand scheme of things.

In 2008 injuries to key personnel were gradually slowing down Geelong. Never-the-less the Cats somehow found themselves in a good winning position and if it wasn't for the kicking yips and some dubious coaching decisions by Bomba the 2008 GF would've have been over by half time.

Great teams don't win all the time (and Hawthorn certainly wasn't some rubbish B team, they were unquestionably good) but Geelong's record over Hawthorn in that period speaks for itself (12 - 0). It's just unfortunate (and fortunate for the Hawks obviously) that our players weren't manage better in 2008 (amateur hour by our medical and coaching staff) to have them peaking physically in September 20008. But as they say que sera, sera.

 

[Macpotata]

To be fair Port did beat us at Kardinia Park in Round 21. I certainly didn't come into the granny thinking it would be a walk in the park for the Cats, on the contrary I was having recurring nightmares of the past 4 GFs.

I just think Choco showed a lack of faith in his players via comments he made about Geelong (pathetically trying to play mindgames which is what only those who lack self belief in their abilities do) through the media which probably made Port players doubt themselves a bit resulting in his boys shitting themselves on the big stage.

We didn't give a **** about that game 2 weeks off from finals. We had top spot sewn up and were missing 5 key players.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Wouldn’t have troubled any of the Hawthorn teams?

No one should be dismissing the Hawthorn teams that win flags, or talking down the teams the won against.

However the cats team from round 6, 2007 onwards, won more matches over their next 200 games than any side in the history of the entire sport at the elite level. To suggest that they couldn’t have tested the hawks more than the sides they actually faced - especially when you consider that far inferior Cats teams were consistently beating the hawks nearly every time they met - is ridiculous.

That seems to be forgotten. Short term memories perhaps?

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

You aren't a great team by winning home & away season games. Doesn't matter how many you win as long as you win enough to be a chance come finals. Good teams finish top 4, great teams win premierships.

This.

 

[Leeda]

somberley reminiscing and catching you out as it is hard enough to satisfy the young ones.

 

[harvester]

Lions. Winning 3x gf in a row, unlucky to not get a 4th. Travelling interstate every 2nd week. Average training facilities, and generally anti AFL fanbase in Qld. People outside Qld will never appreciate what an effort this was.

 

[Pessimistic]

Geelong 1st, toss a coin for 2nd and 3rd.

Hodge not even AA says it all really. Geelong groupies. Surprising really softest three premiership team ever

 

[Pessimistic]

Nah Sydney lost 5-6 games every single year in the H&A from 12-16.....a pretty damn good side but not great IMO....

Speed bump....unless you are geelong