Lions vs Cats vs Hawks - Which dynasty is the best?

[toomanysquibs]

There are degrees of lifting, just as there are degrees of Champions.

Enright an unbelievably good player, as I've said, as consistent as any Champion during his era.

But don't for one second argue that he brings to the table what Hodge did. That's patently absurd.

Enright spent a lot of time on Rioli in 2008. Rioli played an incredibly influential game, as a forward.

No you’re right. You would have watched far more of Enright than me. He never lifted his side. Like most 5 time all Australian, club game record holder, 3 time premiership players, he rarely if ever lifted his side.And hey, let’s ignore the fact that in the 3-peat, Hodge was listed on the ruck line in two of them and on a half-forward flank in the third.Ironically the lone flag he won as a defender was in 2008 when Enright was playing on the centre line.

 

[PhatBoy]

With you on Enright Phat Boy, but Hodge deserved more AAs than Mackie.

Absolutely, I’m surprised Mackie got one at all to be honest. Good solid player but prone to a howler or two per match.

 

[PhatBoy]

Enright was overlooked and underrated by everyone in the 2000s, but then everyone overcompensated for that and overrated him over his last 3 or 4 seasons. Those All Australian selections he received late in his career were charitable. Not saying he wasn't good, but I think the AA sectors were being generous. I thought Luke Hodge played at a higher level across half back and in the middle from 2013-2015. He was denied AA honours during these years because of his versatility.

There is nothing "ludicrous" about this opinion either.

Garbage mate. (The Enright part I mean - no doubt Hodge paid the price at times for being a band-aid that could go nearly anywhere)

He wasn’t a once in a generation player across the field or anything like that, but even when he retired he was still the best half back flank in the game. Did his job every single week. Even in his final season he was only beaten in the B&F by Dangerfield and Selwood.

 

[PhatBoy]

There are degrees of lifting, just as there are degrees of Champions.

Enright an unbelievably good player, as I've said, as consistent as any Champion during his era.

But don't for one second argue that he brings to the table what Hodge did. That's patently absurd.

Enright spent a lot of time on Rioli in 2008. Rioli played an incredibly influential game, as a forward.

Hodge doesn’t bring to the table what Pendlebury brings, Selwood doesn’t bring to the table what Mitchell brings etc etc. it doesn’t somehow qualify one as inferior to the other.

In no Hemisphere is Hodge going to beat Enright out of a HBF spot.

 

[Dank You Steven]

Hodge doesn’t bring to the table what Pendlebury brings, Selwood doesn’t bring to the table what Mitchell brings etc etc. it doesn’t somehow qualify one as inferior to the other.

In no Hemisphere is Hodge going to beat Enright out of a HBF spot.

Hodge was a leader first, and then a utility. Enright was a HBF full stop. Comparing them as leaders? No contest. Compare them as pure HBFs? Then Enright. Overall? Depends what you want from your player.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Not to take anything away from Hawthorn, they were absolutely amazing but whilst they won things, to me they didn't have the domination and invincibility of the other two.

Not a direct criticism of you, because you're entitled to an opinion like everyone else, and probably more so because you're not a supporter of the club's listed.

But with Hawthorn, it's always not dominant enough, or too dominant because of soft opposition.

Aside from Freo, who were red hot favourites in 2013, Hawthorn smashed their opposition in GF's.

Both those times, Hawks were underdogs too.

The truth is likely swinging more towards what you've stated.

But Hawthorn, like Brisbane, were dominant in finals. Rubber hits the road after the Home and Away, and the Lions and Hawks both recognised this, and planned accordingly.

 

[toomanysquibs]

In no Hemisphere is Hodge going to beat Enright out of a HBF spot.

If it comes down to the last spot on the team, and it's a HBF, and you're either fitting in Hodge or Enright, you're picking Hodge.

Almost everyone would pick Hodge.

No shame in that either, most would be picking Hodge over Franklin, Rioli, Mitchell etc. too.

Boris very, very, very good though. No argument on that. Incredible player in what was an incredible team.

 

[adammania9]

Not a direct criticism of you, because you're entitled to an opinion like everyone else, and probably more so because you're not a supporter of the club's listed.

But with Hawthorn, it's always not dominant enough, or too dominant because of soft opposition.

Aside from Freo, who were red hot favourites in 2013, Hawthorn smashed their opposition in GF's.

Both those times, Hawks were underdogs too.

The truth is likely swinging more towards what you've stated.

But Hawthorn, like Brisbane, were dominant in finals. Rubber hits the road after the Home and Away, and the Lions and Hawks both recognised this, and planned accordingly.

I'd like to see the source that says Freo were red hot favourites in 2013
Or West Coast in '15

9/10 footy supporters expected the Hawks to win both with ease

 

[Macpotata]

Not a direct criticism of you, because you're entitled to an opinion like everyone else, and probably more so because you're not a supporter of the club's listed.

But with Hawthorn, it's always not dominant enough, or too dominant because of soft opposition.

Aside from Freo, who were red hot favourites in 2013, Hawthorn smashed their opposition in GF's.

Both those times, Hawks were underdogs too.

The truth is likely swinging more towards what you've stated.

But Hawthorn, like Brisbane, were dominant in finals. Rubber hits the road after the Home and Away, and the Lions and Hawks both recognised this, and planned accordingly.

Fremantle red hot favourites in 2013?

Hawks were $1.60.

 

[Macpotata]

And Hawks were around that price in 2015 vs WCE.

Talking shit sunshine.

 

[Holy Rioli]

Who's players spot in the AA team do you suggest Hodge takes?

Mackie would be a good starting point, or Malceski. I mean being real, if you were picking a side to win a grand final and you had access to any player in the league, you pick Hodge every time over one of these bog average players. The one thing AA selectors should do, but don't is pick a team based on the current year's form if they were selecting a side to play in a grand final, not one that looks pretty on paper.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Fremantle red hot favourites in 2013?

Hawks were $1.60.

What odds were Freo?

 

[toomanysquibs]

And Hawks were around that price in 2015 vs WCE.

Talking shit sunshine.

You're right, I was looking at handicap odds.

And confusing expert opinion with betting odds.

 

[Back One Out]

Fremantle red hot favourites in 2013?

Hawks were $1.60.

I think people get confused about the media experts tipping vs the actual betting markets

Hawthorn were favourites vs Freo in 2013 and West Coast in 2015, but went in as underdogs vs Sydney in 2014

However, Freo and West Coast were both in red hot form during the 2013 and 2015 finals series. For this reason, many media experts (and footy fans in general) tipped them to beat the Hawks. This wasn't reflected in the betting markets.

 

[Macpotata]

You're right, I was looking at handicap odds.

And confusing expert opinion with betting odds.

All good mate. I was at both of those grannys, you guys won me a lot of money.

 

[Macpotata]

I think people get confused about the media experts tipping vs the actual betting markets

Hawthorn were favourites vs Freo in 2013 and West Coast in 2015, but went in as underdogs vs Sydney in 2014

However, Freo and West Coast were both in red hot form during the 2013 and 2015 finals series. For this reason, many media experts (and footy fans in general) tipped them to beat the Hawks. This wasn't reflected in the betting markets.

Mate I can tell you at least on fox footy every pallenist bar Alistair Lynch tipped you lot.

As for 2013 I don't know but I knew there were no chance in hell you would lose 2 on the bounce especially to Freo, and interstate side in their maiden grand final appearance.

The odds were laughable in both, but especially vs the dockers.

Playing at the MCG in the big dance is a different ball park. After the defeats in 11 and 12, HAWKS weren't losing. Vs WCE, they were battled hardened. WCE weren't.


You were far too good everywhere and it played out that way.


Freo and WCE were mentally weak.

 

[Macpotata]

I remember on the footy show Sam Newman tipped WCE to win in week 1, but hawks to win the flag.

A man who knows his football.

 

[smasha]

Cats with the best home ground advantage so scratch(cuse the pun)them from the list.

Lions were the best team to watch maybe because they had great looking jumpers but Hawks in front.

 

[Iceman!]

I can't believe some people are still trying to use home and away results as a measuring stick for which team was better.

It means absolutely nothing after the season is done, it is only used as a way to make finals and that is all it should be used for. To try and claim that a team is better because they had a more dominant home and away record of the period of success is a joke.

 

[PhatBoy]

Hodge was a leader first, and then a utility. Enright was a HBF full stop. Comparing them as leaders? No contest. Compare them as pure HBFs? Then Enright. Overall? Depends what you want from your player.

That’s a fair comment

 

[PhatBoy]

Cats with the best home ground advantage so scratch(cuse the pun)them from the list.

Lions were the best team to watch maybe because they had great looking jumpers but Hawks in front.

Yeah it’s been great playing the 7 or so games at home a year. Much better than 15-16

 

[Benny78]

Geelong are the only dynasty of the 3. The others won their flags and slid back into mediocrity.

Look up the word dynasty in the dictionary.

 

[Macpotata]

I can't believe some people are still trying to use home and away results as a measuring stick for which team was better.

It means absolutely nothing after the season is done, it is only used as a way to make finals and that is all it should be used for. To try and claim that a team is better because they had a more dominant home and away record of the period of success is a joke.

Agreed. **** throw Port Adelaide in the conversation then ffs.

 

[toomanysquibs]

Geelong are the only dynasty of the 3. The others won their flags and slid back into mediocrity.Look up the word dynasty in the dictionary.

A prelim in 2011, and 4 GF's in a row 2012-15, and another that was won a few years earlier. (2008).

Yeah, nah. You couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

Why do Hawthorn fans try to insist they weren't favoured to win in any of 2013, 14 or 15?
Granted, they were underdogs in 14, but went in comfortable favourites into the other 2.

All those team played in 4 Grand Finals (across 5 year for the Cats)
Geelong went in favourite 3 times, and the Pies game was pretty line ball, could say 4 times depending on markets.
Hawthorn were favourite 3 times.
Brisbane were favourite 3 times.

Media "experts" aren't just going to sit around and circle jerk the favourite all GF week, they are going to discuss the other team, their chances, some may even have the temerity to tip against the fav. Winning as an overwhelming fav or a massive underdog makes no difference, so I find the attempted history re-write confusing.