Lisle to Brisbane for Pick 29 (confirmed)

[skilts]

Sorry to stick my bib in, but I know little of Lisle. From reading the posts on this thread, it seems he's not a complete dud, who can play at either end. He seems to be well-regarded as a bloke, and his opportunities at Hawthorn were limited because of the quality talls on your list. Is that a fair summation?

If he has the yips in front of goal, he'll make a perfect replacement for Clark for us.

 

[Prudster]

Sorry to stick my bib in, but I know little of Lisle. From reading the posts on this thread, it seems he's not a complete dud, who can play at either end. He seems to be well-regarded as a bloke, and his opportunities at Hawthorn were limited because of the quality talls on your list. Is that a fair summation?

If he has the yips in front of goal, he'll make a perfect replacement for Clark for us.

Yeah that sounds about right mate, although his opportunities weren't only based on ability, but also coach/selection panel's preferences. Shoenmakers is seen by them as our back lines future, and he was given preference over Lisle. Whether right or wrong, Lisle could see that he wasn't getting consistent games any time soon.

 

[Ordovician]

Sorry to stick my bib in, but I know little of Lisle. From reading the posts on this thread, it seems he's not a complete dud, who can play at either end. He seems to be well-regarded as a bloke, and his opportunities at Hawthorn were limited because of the quality talls on your list. Is that a fair summation?

If he has the yips in front of goal, he'll make a perfect replacement for Clark for us.

Feel free, as we welcome repectful posters form other clubs, even some from Geelong at times.

Lisle is 21 and that is still quite young for a KP prospect.

When he was first drafted, I have been told by reliable sources that his skin folds were bloody awful. Since then he has trimed/hardened up. He is now 196cm and 92kg and looks a lot leaner but still needs a bit more bulk in the upper body to my way of thinking.

On the plus side he is:

i. a very very good contested mark and probably has the best hands on the hawks list (not saying much as a lot of our players are shitesque overhead e.g. Schoey, Buddy, Birchall, Murphy, Suckling etc.)

ii. he reads the ball through the air very well and reads the play down the ground quite well, hence he positions himself for the contested mark in defence or up forward with ease.

iii. as a consequence of ii. he knows where and when to lead and as such is quite effective as a leading forward inspite of his lack of real pace.

iv. surprisingly he has a strong leap which helps enormously with the constested marking

On the downside he is:

i. slow, as slow as an old style ruckman like Mumford or Jolly, as opposed to the new model super quick rucks like Luenberger, Lowden

ii. his reactions and agility are Hawkinsesque, yes he really is that ponderous

iii. i don't know what is endurance is like but since he does travel that far during a game but he seems to be able to run out games ok even if it is at his own pace.

That problem is that these days KPPs generally need to be be quick either to get out into space as forwards, or to chase freaks like Buddy as defenders. Even just running up and down the ground as part of the full field press is very demanding.

There are a few gorilla forwards coming back into vogue like Hawkins/Pods and Cloke/Dawes so there might be a future for Lisle if he bulks up to be a lighter Dawes mark II with better hands. Alternately when he is bigger he could man a Dawes style forward with ease.

The biggest thing going for Lisle is that he is young.

With intense training I can see why his pace could not pick up by a yard or so and as the body matures with the training years his endurance will also improve.

His best positions are marking forward and spare defender filling the hole.

I am sure if he perseveres he should be a reasonable player in some sort of tall role.

However, given that he has chosen to walk to a club where things will be easier for him rather than stay at the Hawks, try and learn from the best, and do the hard work to earn a regular senior slot in a few years time, makes me question his temperment and character.

The kicking yips against Freo ceratainly indicated confidence issues and breaking his cheekbone and the worst possible time (when he was getting a run as a tall defender) did not help his development this season.

However the one thing that really had me concerned were several pretty poor disinterested efforts at BH at the start of the season when he should have been staking a claim for elevation. This was a really dismal performance after he had such a brilliant finish to the previous season where he ran into to good late season form and played with distinction in the three finals.

The forgoing may provide some insight as to why the club was happy enough to trade him once he decided that he had had enough at Waverly but I am sure there was more to it than just those points.

Perhaps the Hawk's coaches did not rate him.

Perhaps he did not rate himself to ever be able to break into a team with some pretty good key forwards and a rag tag defence.

Did the Hawks recruit Gunston because they felt that Lisle was never going to be up to scratch?

Was recruiting Gunston the final nail in the Lisle coffin?

It may have been something as simple as our coaches deciding that Lisle would never make it as a defender becasue we want quick running back men and think larger big bodied gorilla tamers are anachronistic and he was never going to cut it as a forward in these days of the press/flood and its attendant need for quick defensive forwards who can hold the ball in the forward line e.g. Roughy who is quick over 10-20m, lays a lot of tackles inside the F50 whereas Buddy just hip and shoulders opponents in the head to get more publicity from the subsequent report.

Who knows what the real story is?

I am sure that it will all seep out one day.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Lisle didn't walk, Ordo.

He had queries on his awareness, decision making and disposal under pressure which cost him with Clarko.

 

[Henry Jr]

Lisle didn't walk, Ordo.

He had queries on his awareness, decision making and disposal under pressure which cost him with Clarko.

Thats what I like. A nice quick and efficient summary.

 

[TheWrench]

Lisle didn't walk, Ordo.

He had queries on his awareness, decision making and disposal under pressure which cost him with Clarko.

Schoey better be on his game next year then!

 

[Guyhk]

Lisle called into Harf time on SEN today and basically said that Brisbane offered him the guaranteed playing time for 2012 that he felt he was capable of, Hawthorn saw him as a development player and was viewed as being still a couple of years away from becoming a regular in the 22. It was a fairly in-depth interview if anyone wants to hear it, there should be a way of listening to it through the sen site

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

http://www.sen.com.au/audioplayer/Audio/New-Brisbane-recruit-Jordan-Lisle/3305

 

[WillowSF]

Even after a few days of digesting this trade I’m still disappointed. We have a dearth of key position players yet move Lisle on just as he starts making some progress? It’s true Gilham and Roughead will be coming back next year, but you never can be sure whether players returning from long term injuries will be able to recapture their form from previous years. (Gilham is also on the wrong side of his 20’s.)

Outside of Buddy and Roughead, Clarkson has showed zero patience during his tenure at Hawthorn to develop key position talent. He has failed miserably in that regard. (Continuing to go into next season with an undersized backline is not going to land us ultimate success in 2012. Hawkins and Cloke showed that the monster forwards still count.)

Lisle is probably never going to be a superstar but he’s exactly the type of player we couldn’t afford to lose.

 

[Slattery_20]

Isn't Boumann bigger anyway?
To my mind; they'd ruled him out of being a forward already - not quite enough weapons. So you're looking at him vs whoever else purely as a backman.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Even after a few days of digesting this trade I’m still disappointed. We have a dearth of key position players yet move Lisle on just as he starts making some progress? It’s true Gilham and Roughead will be coming back next year, but you never can be sure whether players returning from long term injuries will be able to recapture their form from previous years. (Gilham is also on the wrong side of his 20’s.)

Outside of Buddy and Roughead, Clarkson has showed zero patience during his tenure at Hawthorn to develop key position talent. He has failed miserably in that regard. (Continuing to go into next season with an undersized backline is not going to land us ultimate success in 2012. Hawkins and Cloke showed that the monster forwards still count.)
Lisle is probably never going to be a superstar but he’s exactly the type of player we couldn’t afford to lose.

If we couldn't afford to lose him we wouldn't have moved him on, it's that simple.

 

[PottSie2]

Lisle didn't walk, Ordo.

He had queries on his awareness, decision making and disposal under pressure which cost him with Clarko.

As opposed to a couple more players who we could apply the same blow-torch to ?

 

[Ordovician]

Lisle didn't walk, Ordo.

He had queries on his awareness, decision making and disposal under pressure which cost him with Clarko.

So are you suggesting that Lisle was pushed out rather than left of his volition?

If so, who started the widely reported rumours that Lisle was looking for another team where he get more opportunities?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

So are you suggesting that Lisle was pushed out rather than left of his volition?

If so, who started the widely reported rumours that Lisle was looking for another team where he get more opportunities?

There was interest from other clubs, just like there is for any number of players each year.

If Clarkson rated him, he would've been given more games and kept on the list.

As it was, we listened to all offers.

 

[Goldnbrown]

if what Jordan said on SEN has been reported correctly, it sounds as if we rated him as a prospect, still a coupel fo years off the best 22, the Lions rated him as a best 22 player. I guess its showns the relative strength of our lists?

 

[Ari Brown n Gold]

Good deal for the Hawks. Fringe player at best, will be in top 30 players at Brisbane.

Probably shows how thin the talent is spread now over 18 teams.

 

[Rioli magic]

I don't think there is anything wrong from either side of the fence here. Hawthorn said you're no guarantee to be in the 22 (which is fair enough), and Jordan wants games in the AFL (which is fair enough).

I probably would have liked the response to be "F you, I'll leave you no option but to play me next year", but when someone is offering you security and game time I understand the decision, perhaps he felt his papers were stamped. From all reports it was very amicable and Hawthorn did the right thing by Jordan.

 

[WillowSF]

If we couldn't afford to lose him we wouldn't have moved him on, it's that simple.

Just because that's the decision the club made it doesn't necessarily mean it was the correct one. I think it's fair game to question this trade particularly when we have not had a decent key defender in our side since Trent Croad.

 

[satan1]

Our defence struggles in 1 on 1 wrestling matches. We manage to negate this by performing effectively as a defensive unit. With so many infringements now being payed in wrestling contests (look at the pods/gibson hold shirt decisions earlier this year) I believe it's wise now to have an attacking defence, with individuals that are athletic enough to work their way in front of their stronger opponents and hurt them on the rebound.

We no longer have someone in the Trent Croad mold but I believe in 2011 we still had a strong defensive unit, we only got burned when we couldn't break even in the hard ball contests in the middle.

 

[Goldnbrown]

When our mids were on top and specially when we were winninng in the ruck, it is amazing how good our defence was. like ALL defences very hard to be effective if the ball moves into the zone very quickly.

Also we let in the 3rd least points against last season with 2 of our best 6 defemders out

 

[TallyHawk]

Lisle called into Harf time on SEN today and basically said that Brisbane offered him the guaranteed playing time for 2012 that he felt he was capable of, Hawthorn saw him as a development player and was viewed as being still a couple of years away from becoming a regular in the 22. It was a fairly in-depth interview if anyone wants to hear it, there should be a way of listening to it through the sen site

The thing I was most concerned about during that interview was that when asked what type of player he was, he was unsure. Stated that he was a traditional key position player, as a forward likened himself to Chris Dawes who in reality is a decoy for Cloke.

How does someone who has been in the AFL system not know if they are a key defender or key forward, surely he has a preference. He stated that he is not sure what position he will play for the Lions and that he just wants game time.

Looking at Hawthorn's deficiency of key defenders I would have thought he would have gone to coaching staff and said I want to play CHB for Box Hill to show what I can do. Instead he rotted away kicking 2-3 goals a game as a CHF, behind Buddy, Rough, and Hale for a spot in the 22.

I am disappointed to see him go but the vibe I get is that he simply wasn't bashing down the door down demanding a game.

 

[Hollow Knight]

The thing I was most concerned about during that interview was that when asked what type of player he was, he was unsure. Stated that he was a traditional key position player, as a forward likened himself to Chris Dawes who in reality is a decoy for Cloke.

How does someone who has been in the AFL system not know if they are a key defender or key forward, surely he has a preference. He stated that he is not sure what position he will play for the Lions and that he just wants game time.

Looking at Hawthorn's deficiency of key defenders I would have thought he would have gone to coaching staff and said I want to play CHB for Box Hill to show what I can do. Instead he rotted away kicking 2-3 goals a game as a CHF, behind Buddy, Rough, and Hale for a spot in the 22.

I am disappointed to see him go but the vibe I get is that he simply wasn't bashing down the door down demanding a game.

Yeah it came across as a little wishy washy but it's possible that he is also trying to make a positive impression at his new club and trying to show that he is willing to play wherever the Lions need him.

 

[Hawker55]

That's partly our fault.

He sees himself as a key forward I would suspect.
We played/groomed him as a key back.

To be fair he's marginally too slow to be a backman I think, and probably lacks the precision foot skills that Clarko wants out of our defenders.

He will be a good to serviceable forward though - has a great set of hands and good in the body on body stuff. As a second forward to Brown he'll do very well for you.

 

[Boyler_Room]

Disappointed but if he wants to go should let him.

It was similar with Kennedy and McGlynn. Better to let them go if their heart is not in it.

Also we can't hold players that don't want to be here and we need to give up players to get players.

If Adelaide blocked Gunston and we complained then turned around and stopped Lisle that would not look good.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

Disappointed but if he wants to go should let him.

It was similar with Kennedy and McGlynn. Better to let them go if their heart is not in it.

Also we can't hold players that don't want to be here and we need to give up players to get players.

If Adelaide blocked Gunston and we complained then turned around and stopped Lisle that would not look good.

To be fair, if Lisle had shown the same as Gunner to now, we would probably have kicked up more of a stink.