List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2022

[TheFourPillars]

Having a listen to Sam i am not sure Worpel is going anywhere.

 

[Brishawk]

Having a listen to Sam i am not sure Worpel is going anywhere.

For anything less than a first rounder?

 

[HedgeFund]

Because if you are contending right now like the tiges are I would argue that Mitchell is still currently better than any in that list at playing his specific role as an inside accumulator.

And every team needs a player to fill this role.

Mitchell broke his leg…..badly.

We all agree that means he’s not getting back to his 2018 output.

History shows (R. Osborne, N. Brown, Newman) that even if it’s not career ending, a complete fibula/tibia break is debilitating. We are somewhat frustrated at his more limited contributions (knowing that he is on the slide).

Every AFL list manager will share these views. No one will pick him up unless they lack young midfielders who can do what he is doing. Richmond have several already, and their window is probably closing this year.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Well that’s 18 out of 22 players in a team currently on a 9 out of 10 losing streak.

So I’d be one saying we could do with more talent, young or otherwise.

Hahah brilliant response.

 

[KermitJagger]

Hahah brilliant response.

I mean, it's not really.

18 out of 22 players weren't in those teams for those 10 rounds. Most of those rounds have had a significant volume of forced changes.

As a team we've had probably the most variability in player use across the season besides West Coast for obvious reasons. We've had the least players in for every game of the season, with 4 along with significant changes (i.e. 4 or more) most weeks.

As a younger side, cohesion is really important - but it's difficult to build cohesion with players coming in and out of the side with injury, concussions and niggles like we've had.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

I mean, it's not really.

18 out of 22 players weren't in those teams for those 10 rounds. Most of those rounds have had a significant volume of forced changes.

As a team we've had probably the most variability in player use across the season besides West Coast for obvious reasons. We've had the least players in for every game of the season, with 4 along with significant changes (i.e. 4 or more) most weeks.

As a younger side, cohesion is really important - but it's difficult to build cohesion with players coming in and out of the side with injury, concussions and niggles like we've had.

Probably why Carlton deserve a lot of credit, one of the youngest teams in the comp have also struggled with continuity and have managed to scratch and fight their way to 10-5.

 

[KermitJagger]

Probably why Carlton deserve a lot of credit, one of the youngest teams in the comp have also struggled with continuity and have managed to scratch and fight their way to 10-5.

Some credit, sure - but their key players have by and large played more football than a lot of ours. Either way this isn't the Carlton board so I'm not inclined to give that credit.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Some credit, sure - but their key players have by and large played more football than a lot of ours. Either way this isn't the Carlton board so I'm not inclined to give that credit.

I just think their key players by and large are simply better than ours, probably more to do with it. If I was listing the best 7-8 in a combined Carlton/ Hawthorn side I reckon Sicily would be the only one featuring.

 

[rei154]

I mean, it's not really.

18 out of 22 players weren't in those teams for those 10 rounds. Most of those rounds have had a significant volume of forced changes.

As a team we've had probably the most variability in player use across the season besides West Coast for obvious reasons. We've had the least players in for every game of the season, with 4 along with significant changes (i.e. 4 or more) most weeks.

As a younger side, cohesion is really important - but it's difficult to build cohesion with players coming in and out of the side with injury, concussions and niggles like we've had.

We've had four players play every game this year and we've been throwing the magnets around consistently. We've had rookie ruckmen all year, and we've gone a game without a ruckman.
If anything it's a terrible take that looks at one statistic, and it's the one statistic we have been repeatedly told doesn't matter this year.
It's always funny to me when posters harp on and try and frame things negatively for us this year.
Our list is going to continue to transform and I think we're going to see a fair few more positives from season 2022. The next two years are going to be about continued development again, but I'd imagine we wouldn't be focusing on making finals until 2024 at this point in time.

 

[Lickmesocks]

We have a plethora of unsigned players at the end of this year.
Would be interested to hear how long we would resign Day/Wingard if we had no intentions of trading the latter.
Morrison and T.Phillips too.

Chad 1 year at a time on big coin 600-700k as we have stacks of cash to get near the minimum. If another club wants to come in and offer Chad 3 years at 500 per year then we will take the AFL compensation and move on.

Day 2 year deal on decent coin and we get a chance to look at his body over the next couple of years before committing long term.

Gunners let him explore free agency . Use his 500-650 salary on getting in an Amon type that we badly need .

If BB retires like some are expecting that will free up another 500-600k per year .

Tommy? Perhaps another 700-800k per year freed up.

If we are not having a red hot dip in free agency over the next few years I would be astounded .

 

[rei154]

I just think their key players by and large are simply better than ours, probably more to do with it. If I was listing the best 7-8 in a combined Carlton/ Hawthorn side I reckon Sicily would be the only one featuring.

Who are our key players?
Of the two teams, which team has recently experienced the most success?
Carlton have had over two decades to get to where they are now, we've realistically only started the same revitalization.

Cripps, Silvagni, Cerra, Kennedy, McKay, TDK, Docherty, Walsh, Weitering, Hewett, Curnow, Saad would be their key players.
Of that mix, only Walsh, Cerra and TDK are 22 or under, the rest have been in the system for a substantially longer period of time.

 

[Stratton24]

Chad 1 year at a time on big coin 600-700k as we have stacks of cash to get near the minimum. If another club wants to come in and offer Chad 3 years at 500 per year then we will take the AFL compensation and move on.

Day 2 year deal on decent coin and we get a chance to look at his body over the next couple of years before committing long term.

Gunners let him explore free agency . Use his 500-650 salary on getting in an Amon type that we badly need .

If BB retires like some are expecting that will free up another 500-600k per year .

Tommy? Perhaps another 700-800k per year freed up.

If we are not having a red hot dip in free agency over the next few years I would be astounded .

Chad is not a free agent and if we get a free agent in we get no compo for losing free agents

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Chad 1 year at a time on big coin 600-700k as we have stacks of cash to get near the minimum. If another club wants to come in and offer Chad 3 years at 500 per year then we will take the AFL compensation and move on.

Day 2 year deal on decent coin and we get a chance to look at his body over the next couple of years before committing long term.

Gunners let him explore free agency . Use his 500-650 salary on getting in an Amon type that we badly need .

If BB retires like some are expecting that will free up another 500-600k per year .

Tommy? Perhaps another 700-800k per year freed up.

If we are not having a red hot dip in free agency over the next few years I would be astounded .

Not sure we'd get any compo on Chad given he has only been a Hawk for 4 years.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Chad is not a free agent and if we get a free agent in we get no compo for losing free agents

Can’t see Chad leaving to be honest as he had his chance this past off season when his best mate Clarko took the golden handshake.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Who are our key players?
Of the two teams, which team has recently experienced the most success?
Carlton have had over two decades to get to where they are now, we've realistically only started the same revitalization.

Cripps, Silvagni, Cerra, Kennedy, McKay, TDK, Docherty, Walsh, Weitering, Hewett, Curnow, Saad would be their key players.
Of that mix, only Walsh, Cerra and TDK are 22 or under, the rest have been in the system for a substantially longer period of time.

Good question.

Sicily
Mitchell ?
JOM ?
Lewis ?
Newcombe ?
Moore ?
Hardwick ?

Yeah Carlton have taken a long time to get to the point they have now, but given the bulk of their quality players still have 5-7 years + left they have a real window of opportunity coming up.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Can’t see Chad leaving to be honest as he had his chance this past off season when his best mate Clarko took the golden handshake.

What sort of deal would you be offering Chad if you were list manager ?

 

[KermitJagger]

I just think their key players by and large are simply better than ours, probably more to do with it. If I was listing the best 7-8 in a combined Carlton/ Hawthorn side I reckon Sicily would be the only one featuring.

If we were being agnostic of position sure, the large chunk of the best AFL footballers are midfielders and their midfield is better than ours. Our midfield is a notable weakness and pretty much everyone in this thread is acknowledging that. That being said, if you're actually conscious of position - our best 22 playing their best football would make up at least half if not most of both the defensive and forward line up.

Again, this is the Hawthorn list management thread on the Hawthorn board and not the Carlton board so it doesn't really matter.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Not sure we'd get any compo on Chad given he has only been a Hawk for 4 years.

Yep good point .

Such a shame his body has been a mess since we got him in.

His early years at Port were at A level. With the amount of times his pre season has been interrupted with us through hammys and calves, and then flowed into the season has been extremely frustrating as we have not got bang for our buck at all.

 

[Stratton24]

Good question.

Sicily
Mitchell ?
JOM ?
Lewis ?
Newcombe ?
Moore ?
Hardwick ?

Yeah Carlton have taken a long time to get to the point they have now, but given the bulk of their quality players still have 5-7 years + left they have a real window of opportunity coming up.

Carlton could be like Essendon last year - benefiting from the AFL's easiest draw and playing team's at the perfect time - let's see how they shape up v Melbourne and Geelong and then in the finals before they are declared the next super team

 

[rei154]

Good question.

Sicily
Mitchell ?
JOM ?
Lewis ?
Newcombe ?
Moore ?
Hardwick ?

Yeah Carlton have taken a long time to get to the point they have now, but given the bulk of their quality players still have 5-7 years + left they have a real window of opportunity coming up.

I think the thing that this tells us is that we're still finding our core.
I'd argue we need to have at least five more players on that list, and that we'd need players like Hardwick and Moore to be roleplayers/depth players.

With any luck all of DGB, Ward, Butler, CMac and Day will all become reliable core players, and hopefully we find more key roleplayers.

 

[Lickmesocks]

What sort of deal would you be offering Chad if you were list manager ?

Not knowing where we are at and how much cash we have to spend to get near the minimum makes it hard to answer this question, but for what we are seeing re output and his body breaking down all the time either 2 years at 350k per year or 1 year at 500k would be what I would be looking at .

I suspect if Gunners and BB move on then it will be much higher.

 

[HedgeFund]

The next two years are going to be about continued development again, but I'd imagine we wouldn't be focusing on making finals until 2024 at this point in time.

The last bit is the realism many need to accept. I’d suggest 2025 at the earliest.

Anyone who thinks our club/list is another first round pick away from returning to finals contention is delusional.

We need to get 40+ more games TOGETHER into our best 12-15 players and hope that we can recruit / develop the other 7 -10 to go from a 6 win / season team to a 13 win / season team.

Aside from North (who are a basket case) there’s no club sitting behind us from development point of view. WC have been decimated and will bounce back quicker than us. Adelaide and Essendon are on a par.

That’s where we are at people, and to sugar coat it any other way is unrealistic.

 

[Flukey!]

The new game plan has been fun in spurts but really it has just made us more watchable than anything else.
We have regressed this year and I still feel like we have a long way to go before our list will achieve any form of consistency.
I am hoping for another year of change come draft time.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if BB, Shiels, Hartigan, Howe, Brockman, Downie and perhaps even Morris (contracted) were all moved on.

Drafting more mids and goalkickers would be nice with another KPD if one is available.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Good question.

Sicily
Mitchell ?
JOM ?
Lewis ?
Newcombe ?
Moore ?
Hardwick ?

Yeah Carlton have taken a long time to get to the point they have now, but given the bulk of their quality players still have 5-7 years + left they have a real window of opportunity coming up.

Weitering Walsh and Curnow are stars they got for being rubbish .

Williams McGovern Saad Hewitt Cerra etc etc etc have been cherry picked from other clubs through trade or free agency .

I hope DGB Ward and Day become our young stars where free agents think yep I want to join that lot.

 

[Stratton24]

Weitering Walsh and Curnow are stars they got for being rubbish .

Williams McGovern Saad Hewitt Cerra etc etc etc have been cherry picked from other clubs through trade or free agency .

I hope DGB Ward and Day become our young stars where free agents think yep I want to join that lot.

those players all joined Carlton for money not play with young stars