thehardway
Team Captain
Without going back through this thread can someone please list the players out of contract at seasons end.
List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2022
- Thread starter Strapping Young Lad
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- Aug 31, 2008
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I'm comforted by Morrison's performance on the weekend in a wet slog - I always thought he was neat and capable building into a handy depth player; but if this becomes more the norm than the exception, it's a blunt reminder that people's expectations are shortening, i.e. wanting immediate best-22 from 18yos.... this never used to be the case, always expect an apprenticeship and then build until funnily enough 23-24
He definitely responded after a soft display the week prior. You love to see it.
- Aug 31, 2008
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I think the reason we may regressed is because senior players have been moved out of playing more prominent roles - either deliberately by Sam, or via injuries.
Sam is also trying to get us to play a more attacking brand as we know that the dour football of the last few years is not winning football. No recent successful team has played that way.
- Oct 2, 2019
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Same difference. If you ask the players they will tell you something different. If you have your cap under control and can entice other players via money or opportunity then you get it done .
cryptor
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MrPremiership
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- Nov 18, 2013
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Thought Ramsden and Blanck had 18 month deals from the MSD
Morris signed on until end of 2023 last year I thought?
chopflop
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Nah Rama is definitely a long-term piece. If they wanted insurance they would have taken the 23yo ruckman from WA who got drafted to Port and played well first-up before getting injured. They took Ramsden because he has a very high ceiling.
Ned Ryerson
Future Captain
Oh I get, and love, that he's a project ruckmen. But with another pre-season in him in a circumstance where Reeves and Lynch are our go-to ruckmen he could possibly be good to go if both of them were out. I didn't mean he was insurance for 2022. Personally 4 specialist rucks seems a bit much going into 2023.
Cant see BB, Shiels or Hartigan going on.
It will be the delistings that will be interesting. Not sure Phillips survives either.
It will be the delistings that will be interesting. Not sure Phillips survives either.
We seemed more competitive earlier in the season when Phillips was in the team.
May not be a stylish player but goes in hard and is an endurance beast.Helped make our last quarters more presentable.
- Jun 11, 2013
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Phillips will probably depend on what we think of Saunders/Downie plus some of our HBers that could be wings like Day, CJ, Brambs etc.
Bloke hasn't had a fair run at it this season, I'd be keen to see him a bit more in Sam's gameplan before culling him. Especially given how barren our midfled and particularly outside midfield depth is
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How on earth has Chad earned 600-700k?
I think that's an awful message to the playing list given he hasn't got near the output deserving this in his time with us... he's already been paid incredibly well, without the output he or the club hoped for.
If we are that worried about meeting the minimum salary, if Big Boy goes on pay him whatever it takes to get there. He's earned it. Same with Gunston...
Even recontract Bruest if it's that big an issue. He continues to play each week and is every chance to kick 40 goals again this year.
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Didn’t Phillips come over on a 4 year deal
cryptor
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You're right. This isn't official so things like that probably slipped through the cracks.
chopflop
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Why would we get compo for Chad?
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spot on.
Brant
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The other thing is that we're trying to play attacking footy for 100% of the game. We're not slowing the ball down, playing 'tempo footy', going defensive or 'going long down the line' coming out of defence. It shouldn't shock people that we're gassing out in games, especially given the age of some of our mids & the way some critical players have been out/in (& underdone) throughout the season.
Neither should it be a shock when teams get a run on against us. Here's a hint - we're going through the corridor - E. V. E. R. Y. T. I. M. E. Knowing what we're going to do, it's pretty easy to set up against us. I've not bothered checking, but I'm pretty sure we're giving up a butt-load of goals from turnovers - probs more than most clubs.
I'm very confident we're learning a lot from this & the best thing - we're not dropping our heads - we're playing games out.
If clubs are beating us by <5 goals - especially after giving up 3-4 goal leads, they're kidding themselves.
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I think what happens to Callow will be dependent on how many key position players are added onto the list. It makes sense from a list management perspective to keep him for another year at least because if there’s an injury to one of the key forwards or rucks, then he would be next in line.
They will retire. Or retired.
HappyHawk_1
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- Oct 2, 2021
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Not sure if many people here are familiar with the Performance/Potential Matrix - it's commonly used in the business world to track existing talent and plan for future needs, and it's just another way at looking at where our list is sitting.
I'm sure there will be plenty of comments about whether certain players should go up/down/change categories, but this is designed to be a general assessment - so let's not have any fits over where I've classified players please!
9 Box Talent Grid/Matrix
Team Breakdown
'Star': (High Performance, High Potential): Sicily,
'High Potential': (Med Perf., High Pot.): Lewis, Moore, Newcombe,
'High Performance': (High Perf., Med Pot.): Hardwick,
'Potential Gem': (Low Perf., High Pot.): Jiath, Day, Ward, Butler, MacDonald, Blanck,
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'Solid Performer': (High Perf., Low Pot.): Mitchell, O'Meara, Bruest,
'Core': (Med Perf., Med Pot.): Morrison, Frost, Scrimshaw, Reeves,
----------------------
'Inconsistent': (Low Perf., Med Pot.): Impey, Worpel, Nash, Bramble, Koschitzke, DGB, MaGinness, Callow, Lynch, Phillips,
'Average': (Med Perf., Low Pot.): McEvoy, Howe, Gunston, Wingard, Sheils,
'Poor': (Low Perf., Low Pot.): Hartigan,
----------------------
Unknown: Long, Ramsden, O'Hara, Serong, ||| Brockman, Morris, Jeka, Downie, S.Mitchell, Saunders,
Summary
At the end of the year, Hartigan has to go, and at least a couple of the senior players that are in the 'inconsistent' or 'average' categories need to go - I just don't think they provide a good enough performance to justify staying on the list, particularly given how long they've been around (NB: in this category I have Impey, Phillips, McEvoy, Howe, Gunston, Wingard, Sheils). Obviously there's plenty of discussions regarding Mitchell and O'Meara and I'm not opposed to trading them for the right price, but I'm purely looking at what our list is offering from a performance and potential perspective.
There are a few younger players in the 'inconsistent' category - I think they largely deserve another crack as they have all generally (at least in the past) shown they could potentially make it (albeit Callow has looked off the pace at AFL so far, but as a tall only picked up last year, happy to give him a bit more stick).
In addition, a few of those in the 'unknown' category have been on the list for a while that could be at risk. With these players, the first 4 are locks for me due to the upside/minimal time spent at the club thus far. After this, I wouldn't be surprised if some of these players were gone come next year, as much as I don't want to see Brockman or Morris go given their potential upside given the VFL performance of Morris and the talent Brockman has shown.
IMO, those at the 'potential gem' level and above have done enough to suggest to me that they could absolutely be guns for our side, thus I would be playing them basically every game we can, full stop. Fingers crossed we can bring in some players at this level or above over the off-season through the draft and FA. Based on his current output, I think Karl Amon should at absolutely minimum be a core-level player, potentially up to the high performance level.
I'm sure there will be plenty of comments about whether certain players should go up/down/change categories, but this is designed to be a general assessment - so let's not have any fits over where I've classified players please!
9 Box Talent Grid/Matrix
Team Breakdown
'Star': (High Performance, High Potential): Sicily,
'High Potential': (Med Perf., High Pot.): Lewis, Moore, Newcombe,
'High Performance': (High Perf., Med Pot.): Hardwick,
'Potential Gem': (Low Perf., High Pot.): Jiath, Day, Ward, Butler, MacDonald, Blanck,
---------------------
'Solid Performer': (High Perf., Low Pot.): Mitchell, O'Meara, Bruest,
'Core': (Med Perf., Med Pot.): Morrison, Frost, Scrimshaw, Reeves,
----------------------
'Inconsistent': (Low Perf., Med Pot.): Impey, Worpel, Nash, Bramble, Koschitzke, DGB, MaGinness, Callow, Lynch, Phillips,
'Average': (Med Perf., Low Pot.): McEvoy, Howe, Gunston, Wingard, Sheils,
'Poor': (Low Perf., Low Pot.): Hartigan,
----------------------
Unknown: Long, Ramsden, O'Hara, Serong, ||| Brockman, Morris, Jeka, Downie, S.Mitchell, Saunders,
Summary
At the end of the year, Hartigan has to go, and at least a couple of the senior players that are in the 'inconsistent' or 'average' categories need to go - I just don't think they provide a good enough performance to justify staying on the list, particularly given how long they've been around (NB: in this category I have Impey, Phillips, McEvoy, Howe, Gunston, Wingard, Sheils). Obviously there's plenty of discussions regarding Mitchell and O'Meara and I'm not opposed to trading them for the right price, but I'm purely looking at what our list is offering from a performance and potential perspective.
There are a few younger players in the 'inconsistent' category - I think they largely deserve another crack as they have all generally (at least in the past) shown they could potentially make it (albeit Callow has looked off the pace at AFL so far, but as a tall only picked up last year, happy to give him a bit more stick).
In addition, a few of those in the 'unknown' category have been on the list for a while that could be at risk. With these players, the first 4 are locks for me due to the upside/minimal time spent at the club thus far. After this, I wouldn't be surprised if some of these players were gone come next year, as much as I don't want to see Brockman or Morris go given their potential upside given the VFL performance of Morris and the talent Brockman has shown.
IMO, those at the 'potential gem' level and above have done enough to suggest to me that they could absolutely be guns for our side, thus I would be playing them basically every game we can, full stop. Fingers crossed we can bring in some players at this level or above over the off-season through the draft and FA. Based on his current output, I think Karl Amon should at absolutely minimum be a core-level player, potentially up to the high performance level.
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Do injuries make things go down, as you have with Gunston and Wingard? because imo they're not on the same level as Howe or Shiels who are both just not great.
HappyHawk_1
Team Captain
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IMO yes - the fact that they can't get on the park pulls them down a bit, as ultimately their performance isn't contributing to our output/success that much.
However, it's hard as practically from a performance perspective, there aren't only 3 tiers of performance in the competition. In the same way, MacDonald has shown way more than Blanck, but from the small sample of what Blanck has shown and given his position, I don't think I would pull him down to the 'medium potential level along the likes of Nash, MaGinness, DBG etc.
But again - it's one where there are infinite levels of gray, but I'm generally comfortable with saying that for us this year, Gunston has been pretty 'average'
I think it's fair on Wingard, but with Gunston it's kinda harsh, both are still highly talented players aswell. Wingards are more recurring and are more likely to continue, while Gunstons are more so freak incidents, back, rolled ankle etc.
HappyHawk_1
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I do get that and not trying to be harsh (also noting that again, these are large generalisations given you can't classify performance and potential into only 3 tiers) - however, Gunston has now played only 12 of the last 37 matches, his back issues worry me, and he will be 31 come the start of next year.
Put that all together and I think there's enough there to say there's a bit of risk there, and I would put it 'in the realms' of Wingard (again - not saying it's equal, but don't think they are worlds apart).
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