List Mgmt. List management for 2016

[Us against the rest]

I am still a proponent of the crap fitness + crap game plan caused most of our problems this year, including player buy in, morale, and mindset.

Remembering back, Boak amongst others looked sore and muscle bound, clearance methods and forward structure/entries were abysmal, and people like Westhoff were running big distances without getting a touch. And skill errors like not kicking to a receiver's advantage often riled me.

I'm being careful about blaming the players too much, particularly since Ken does and so do the players (morale?), though their poor efforts to present themselves to the ball-carrier often lays them open to criticism.

So maybe we shouldn't be trading Westhoff, Broadbent, and Hartlett. I would be cutting them some slack this year.

But not Ken and the fitness department

Good post.

 

[Powerstufff]

Lol this doesn't really clear it up for me .....

I'm for significant change. And based on a sample of Ryder and Dixon no more expensive long-term gambles on unwanted or disaffected late-career players from other teams.
There's a section from 1:41 on the clip below of Orson Welles talking about fake psychics ('Cold Reading') that makes me think of our recruiting staff. Welles refers it to those fakes knowing they are fakes, but then later them thinking they are actually psychically gifted - the phenomenon being called 'becoming a shut eye'.



Everyone understandably wants to be Hawthorn-like in recruiting. Their young draftees deliver enough successes that it looks like they all succeed, and that's annoying enough. But for a decade now they have pulled in unwanted or disaffected late-career players from other teams and had a ridiculous success rate with that. So suddenly others (prominently us) think they can duplicate it. But we clearly don't have the magic fairy dust (aka skilled analysis) that enables Hawthorn to do that and need to stop. Our wild guess recruiting also reminds me of the section in 'Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game' that points out how in any sport the recruiters, coaches etc are almost universally ex-players and how the only thing most of them have a recognised expertise in is playing that sport. I'll stop now.

 

[proman_x]

Would not surprise me to see Young put on the trade table. While getting amongst it, his defence and one on one work is rather average.

 

[Leaveit2charlie]

EDIT: 99% sure this means Butch is goneski...

Would also read it as contacted players are going to be tapped on the shoulder and have the exciting opportunities available at other clubs explained to them.

 

[Pappagallo]

I'm for significant change. And based on a sample of Ryder and Dixon no more expensive long-term gambles on unwanted or disaffected late-career players from other teams.
There's a section from 1:41 on the clip below of Orson Welles talking about fake psychics that makes me think of our recruiting staff. Welles refers it to fakes knowing they are fakes, but then later thinking they are actually psychically gifted - the phenomenon being called 'becoming a shut eye'.



Everyone understandably wants to be Hawthorn-like in recruiting. Their young draftees deliver enough successes that it looks like they all succeed, and that's annoying enough. But for a decade now they have pulled in unwanted or disaffected late-career players from other teams and had a ridiculous success rate with that. So suddenly others (prominently us) think they can duplicate it. But we clearly don't have the magic fairy dust (aka skilled analysis) that enables Hawthorn to do that and need to stop. Our wild guess recruiting also reminds me of the section in 'Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game' that points out how in any sport the recruiters, coaches etc are almost universally ex-players and how the only thing most of them have a recognised expertise in is playing that sport. I'll stop now.

Good clip, I've seen it a couple of times before.

It makes me think of Burgo. He told our players that they're fitter than everyone else so many times that he started to believe it himself.

 

[Powerstufff]

Would also read it as contacted players are going to be tapped on the shoulder and have the exciting opportunities available at other clubs explained to them.

A bus idling outside as Ken and KT speak to them.

 

[PAFCsince1870]

9 to 6, losing a good player! No way.

While it seems undesirable don't forget such a move also frees up cap space.

This is often overlooked and something American sports seem to have a much better grasp of.

 

[Arsene Wenger]

9 to 6, losing a good player! No way.

9 to 6 means you lose an ok player (like Jonas) and you get a highly touted kid. For me, its a no brainer, but i guess everyone has their own opinion. If we continue to hang on to the "good Guys" we will go nowhere.

 

[portly]

9 to 6 means you lose an ok player (like Jonas) and you get a highly touted kid. For me, its a no brainer, but i guess everyone has their own opinion. If we continue to hang on to the "good Guys" we will go nowhere.

No, I'm not thinking along the good guy line. More the "don't throw out the baby with the bath water" logic.

 

[OneGreatClub]

To think that clubs like Melbourne Carlton Brisbane Saintseven Bulldogs in recent years have had the joy of anticipating high quality in the draft. We haven't had that joy for years. I am looking forward to that excitement this time.

 

[Arsene Wenger]

No, I'm not thinking along the good guy line. More the "don't throw out the baby with the bath water" logic.

true that. I just think Jonas is most expendable and would have suitors. I think Broadbent less so

 

[Magus]

To think that clubs like Melbourne Carlton Brisbane Saintseven Bulldogs in recent years have had the joy of anticipating high quality in the draft. We haven't had that joy for years. I am looking forward to that excitement this time.

Wingard and Wines?

 

[OneGreatClub]

Wingard and Wines?

That is only two, I want more, much more.

 

[chadleverington]

So suddenly others (prominently us) think they can duplicate it. But we clearly don't have the magic fairy dust (aka skilled analysis) that enables Hawthorn to do that and need to stop.

I think the key here is that you need to keep bringing in talent. Frawley was a free agent, weve given up 1st and 2nd round picks for both Ryder AND Dixon.

 

[Powerstufff]

To think that clubs like Melbourne Carlton Brisbane Saintseven Bulldogs in recent years have had the joy of anticipating high quality in the draft. We haven't had that joy for years. I am looking forward to that excitement this time.

We've traded out of that for the last 2 years, it isn't crazy far back but it is too long.

 

[FallingLiefs]

 

[Powerstufff]

I think the key here is that you need to keep bringing in talent. Frawley was a free agent, weve given up 1st and 2nd round picks for both Ryder AND Dixon.

Exactly.

 

[OneGreatClub]

I feel sick

 

[Jonts]

Reads to me that we want marshall

Ken was at the allies game where they played WA and marshall was their only multiple goal kicker at CHF and looked the goods

Inb4 we trade for six to get marshall just to have someone take him earlier and we draft two flankers at 6/9

 

[OneGreatClub]

If we knew the 12 to 15 going o/s with Burgo we would know the untouchables

 

[Pedro59]

I am still a proponent of the crap fitness + crap game plan caused most of our problems this year, including player buy in, morale, and mindset.

Remembering back, Boak amongst others looked sore and muscle bound, clearance methods and forward structure/entries were abysmal, and people like Westhoff were running big distances without getting a touch. And skill errors like not kicking to a receiver's advantage often riled me.

I'm being careful about blaming the players too much, particularly since Ken does and so do the players (morale?), though their poor efforts to present themselves to the ball-carrier often lays them open to criticism.

So maybe we shouldn't be trading Westhoff, Broadbent, and Hartlett. I would be cutting them some slack this year.

But not Ken and the fitness department

I am in agreement with you Portly

Crap gameplan and skill drills/maintainenece for me is also the main problem

If any punters on here truly think just getting Ryder back will resolve our F50 entries etc and game plan problems they are in for a miserable 2017

 

[Arsene Wenger]

Reads to me that we want marshall

Ken was at the allies game where they played WA and marshall was their only multiple goal kicker at CHF and looked the goods

Inb4 we trade for six to get marshall just to have someone take him earlier and we draft two flankers at 6/9

bahaha... my biggest concern.

Who of Essendon Bris Freo GC Carlton would take him before us? I think Bris, Essendon wont. Freo could, GC maybe, Carlton could too.

 

[simmo_bc]

the only changes I can see at the club are the obvious delistings and retirements which total about 8 players.

I've included Krak in the 8 players. As much as I like him, and I fully respect his comeback story, I don't see much upside in him and we'd have to upgrade him to keep him.

Snelling is a no brainer upgrade with a 2 year contract. I would also not be surprised to see one of Houston or Hewett upgraded.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Not sure why we would bother trying to trade up? If you believe the club, every player we've ever drafted....ever, that we wanted in the first round, slid to us in the second and ones we wanted in the second round slid to the third round etc.

We should be trading down if anything.... our 9th pick for 5 fourth rounders.

 

[Chrizzt]

Not sure why we would bother trying to trade up? If you believe the club, every player we've ever drafted....ever, that we wanted in the first round, slid to us in the second and ones we wanted in the second round slid to the third round etc.

We should be trading down if anything.... our 9th pick for 5 fourth rounders.

Every club in the history of forever in every single sport says the same thing. You really think they're gonna come out and say, "we wanted so and so but they were gone so we had to pick up this chump?"

I get people being facetious, particularly after our season, but let's be facetious about things that actually matter and are even slightly relevant.