Losers of the "riches to rags" style

[SickQwon]

Ben Cousins

 

[SickQwon]

Jason Akermanis

 

[seysearles]

Interesting? Hawthorn sacked the guy forcing him to bide his time in the bush. Funny way to show one of the all time greatest Australian Rules footballers that (a) you want him and (b) respect his talent.

What is really interesting is that Hawthorn realised it had stuffed up big time and made an all-out effort in 1987 to get him back at Glenferrie Road. Had the Hawks been successful, Ablett may have played in 3 premierships.

Equally interesting is the fact that Hawthorn missed out on getting GAJ under the father-son rule.

Get your facts right!! Gary Ablett Senior was SACKED by Hawthorn. You can call it what you like but he was sacked!
http://www.penguin.com.au/products/9780670075584/football-legends-bush/45751/extract

The thing is....

When you have a guy at your club who leaves (end of 1982) and you IMMEDIATELY win 5 of the following 9 premierships (1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991) the last thing you're going to do is speculate "what if" or lament what could have been. Even if that player turned out to be one of the greatest players of all time. There is a very good chance that things would not have transpired as well as they did had Ablett hung around.

So I guess it worked out well for everyone in the end didn't it? .... ohhh except for Ablett (who never won one) .... and Geelong (who had to wait a further quarter of a century to win their next one).

 

[Sttew]

The thing is....

When you have a guy at your club who leaves (end of 1982) and you IMMEDIATELY win 5 of the following 9 premierships (1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991) the last thing you're going to do is speculate "what if" or lament what could have been. Even if that player turned out to be one of the greatest players of all time. There is a very good chance that things would not have transpired as well as they did had Ablett hung around.

So I guess it worked out well for everyone in the end didn't it? .... ohhh except for Ablett (who never won one) .... and Geelong (who had to wait a further quarter of a century to win their next one).

All true! And it made for arguably the greatest grand final ever in 1989

 

[emuboy]

Some teams from history stand out:

AFL/VFL
UNIVERSITY - Looked very good in 1908-1910, and definitely the right choice for the VFL's 9th club. The team is 1.17 in 1911 & 1912, and 0.18 in both 1913 & 1914, before leaving the competition having lost 51 games in a row.

FITZROY - Fitzroy dominate the early years of the VFL, and by 1922 are the runaway premiership leader with 7, but wait until 1944 to add premiership 8. The Lions are inconsistent in the late 1940s & early 1950s, but after a promising run in the late 1950s were very unlucky not to have played Melbourne for the 1960 premiership, and to miss the finals narrowly in a very even 1961 season. Then they go 5.13 in 1962, 1.17 in 1963 and 0.18 in 1964, with another 1.17 season in 1966, finishing bottom 3 every year from 1962-1969 inclusive. It would be 1979 before Fitzroy play in September again.

MELBOURNE - In September 1964, Melbourne beat Collingwood to win the premiership (6 premierships in 10 years), and another flag looked likely for Melbourne's 1965 team when 8-0 starting the season. Then somehow Melbourne miss the finals, slip to second last in 1966 and if the Melbourne faithful thought this was a temporary aberration, they would be waiting until 1987 for the Dees to play finals again.

RICHMOND - After thrashing Collingwood in the 1980 GF (5th premiership from 1967-1980) and losing to Carlton in the premiership decider in 1982, Richmond play just 4 unconvincing finals series since then; 1995, 2001, 2013 & 2014, the Tigers exiting each time with a humiliating loss.

ST KILDA - A hefty defeat by the Adelaide Crows in the 1997 GF did not spur the Saints to go one better in the following years, and by 2000 they were back to last. Then a decade later, the Saints lose narrowly in the 2009 GF to Geelong, draw with and then are thrashed by Collingwood in 2010, and by 2014 are last on the ladder again.

WAFL
PERTH - When the final siren sounded across a rain-soaked Subiaco Oval in the 1978 Grand Final, the Demons fans would have been disappointed that their team finished 2 points in arrears of arch rival the East Perth Royals, but confident that Perth would make amends for this if not in 1979 then in the early 1980s. And they had every reason to be confident, with the Demons winning premierships in 1966, 1967, 1968, 1976 & 1977, with runner up placings in 1970 & 1974. However, since then Perth have played just 3 few and far between finals series (1986, 1991 & 1997), rarely challenged for a finals spot in other years, not played in a Grand Final and finished last 9 times.

SANFL
STURT - A dominant team in the 1960s and 1970s, Sturt's achievements in the 1980s were more humble, but the side was still far from a bad team. Then the Double Blues win 8 consecutive wooden spoons from 1989-1996 inclusive, including a winless season in 1995. However, Sturt did turn this around, finishing runner up in 1998 and being one of the few teams to defeat Central Districts in winning the 2002 GF.

VFL (VFA)
YARRAVILLE - Runner up to Brunswick in the 1980 Division 2 GF, the Eagles slump to 4.14 in 1981, and finish last in 1982 & 1983 with 1.17 records, before leaving the VFA at the end of that year.

DANDENONG - The Redlegs took out the 1991 VFL Premiership, but after struggling financially in the following 3 seasons, the Redlegs left the VFA at the end of 1994, despite playing finals that season.

PRAHRAN - The Two Blues were premiership contenders in 1992 & 1993, but finances proved a problem the next year, with Prahran slumping to last in 1994 and exiting the VFA with Dandenong and Oakleigh.

TASSIE DEVILS - This side drew big attendances and was a credit to the newly restructured VFL in the early 2000s, with strong performances on field too. Then somehow things went sour in the mid 2000s, and after successive wooden spoons in 2007 & 2008, the Devils left the VFL.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Des Healand springs to mind

 

[W.C. Fry]

Mick Malthouse.
Went from rags to riches, back to rags, back up to riches then back down to rags.
Rags: 1987 - 1989 with the Bulldogs.
Riches to Rags: 1990 - 1999 with the Eagles.
Rags to Riches: 2000 - 2011 with the Pies.
Rags: 2012 - present with the Blues.

When was he ever rags at the eagles? Never missed finals, won a final in his last year finishing 5th. Not exactly rags.

 

[Crock]

We are talking about Gary Ablett. $60K was a bargain. But, I don't believe what you say. He was sacked. Are you suggesting he was on loan to Myrtleford?

Haha! You are free to believe anything you like.
But I suspect you have already done some research and found that what I said is correct.

 

[Sttew]

Haha! You are free to believe anything you like.
But I suspect you have already done some research and found that what I said is correct.

I just Googled, "Did Hathorn FC sack Ablett Senior, and came up with the following:

1. From Wikipedia - "....Ablett claimed difficulty coping with city life in Melbourne and his continual absenteeism from training sessions forced Hawthorn coach, Allan Jeans into parting ways with the talented, but wayward young half forward"

2. From The Footy Almenac (29/4/2010 - http://www.footyalmanac.com.au/ken-piesse’s-10-favorite-footballers-from-…-the-ovens-murray/) - "While Ablett, sacked by Hawthorn for disciplinary reasons, was only part of the O & M for one year, it was truly memorable."

3. From http://www.footybooks.com.au/category/news/ -
"Did Hawthorn coach/police sergeant Allen Jeans make the right decision when he sacked teenage sensation Gary Ablett snr after only six senior games back in 1982. Ablett didn’t fit Yabby’s mould in what it took to be a member of the Hawk family."

Now I have conceded it is a moot point anyway, as Hawthorn did alright without Ablett, and he went on to have a sensational career at Geelong, also giving us a father son selection.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Mark Coughlan – won the Richmond BnF at 21 and retired about five years after. Probably one of the most unlucky footballers too, hugely talented but constantly injured (including one coming from being in the shower with his girlfriend...) and never even racked up 100 games.

Des Hedland another. High draft pick, won a flag at the Lions, then got exposed for being the seagull he was and did nothing for Freo. Except that one awesome derby when he flogged Selwood.

The real ones are those Eagles players from the mid-2000s. Perth's horrible obsession and love for Eagles footballers (epitomised today by the Sunday Times' front page story being: Priddis having a kid...) built them up so high. The stories of ice addiction, families leaving, living in sharehouses in Midland, mental illnesses, Greylands, and Adam Hunter working (not owning, working) at a Mitre 10 are some serious ******* falls from grace.

What on earth is wrong with that? I'd say that a large percentage of former professional athletes get themselves in financial strife because they think that, because they were on good coin in their playing days, that qualifies them to be a CEO. My bet is the ones that leave the game with no real world qualifications, but that are able to swallow their pride and get an 'ordinary' job are the ones that will generally be ok (if they've managed to save a bit and/or paid off a house during their playing days). And the ones who think that a mundane nine-to-five is beneath them and that they have to open a bar, or become a property developer without any knowledge of those industries will generally get in over their heads.

I found it pretty funny when John Barnes was on Open Mike and when he got the obligatory 'What are you up to these days?' question and responded that he was a garbo, a lot of my Geelong-supporting friends treated that revelation as if Barnes had said he was panhandling for a living. Did they expect BRW 500 companies to be throwing executive gigs at him, because he played 200 AFL games? He seemed happy enough and if he was relatively smart with his money over a fifteen-year career, he'd probably be able to live relatively comfortably.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I just Googled, "Did Hathorn FC sack Ablett Senior, and came up with the following:

1. From Wikipedia - "....Ablett claimed difficulty coping with city life in Melbourne and his continual absenteeism from training sessions forced Hawthorn coach, Allan Jeans into parting ways with the talented, but wayward young half forward"

2. From The Footy Almenac (29/4/2010 - http://www.footyalmanac.com.au/ken-piesse’s-10-favorite-footballers-from-…-the-ovens-murray/) - "While Ablett, sacked by Hawthorn for disciplinary reasons, was only part of the O & M for one year, it was truly memorable."

3. From http://www.footybooks.com.au/category/news/ -
"Did Hawthorn coach/police sergeant Allen Jeans make the right decision when he sacked teenage sensation Gary Ablett snr after only six senior games back in 1982. Ablett didn’t fit Yabby’s mould in what it took to be a member of the Hawk family."

Now I have conceded it is a moot point anyway, as Hawthorn did alright without Ablett, and he went on to have a sensational career at Geelong, also giving us a father son selection.

Ablett's own words:

The coach Allan Jeans, he was all right. I had trouble living in the city. I think he felt I was too detached. At that stage I thought he was a little too hard-line and there wasn't room for me at the club. He took his footy very serious but lacked the flexibility to be able to compensate for a country kid. I think if you spoke to Allan he might be of a different opinion today. Same with me, I wish I had been more committed.

I played a couple of OK games for Hawthorn, kicking three against St Kilda and Collingwood, but I just didn't think I was good enough.

I was getting side-tracked in Drouin. I was keeping wrong company and I started getting into trouble with the law. I knew the only way to move forward was to get out of Melbourne, so I contacted Dad's cousin Len Ablett in Myrtleford to see if I could move up there for a year and play.

So what's the upshot of all that? Probably inconclusive. But then there's this newspaper article from the same book:

Former Hawthorn player Gary Ablett will appeal to the VFL this week in a bid to be cleared to Geelong. If successful, Ablett will be the third member of his family to defect from the Hawks.

Gary Ablett made his debut with the Hawks in 1982 and played six games. He was reluctantly cleared to country side Myrtleford last season.

Hawthorn secretary Tony Farrugia said Ablett was still required at Hawthorn. He said Ablett had an agreement to play for the club.

And this:

Geelong is believed to have agreed to pay $60,000 for Gary Ablett's clearance from Hawthorn.

It seems pretty clear that Hawthorn still held the rights to Ablett, if he wanted to play in the VFL, but were ok with transferring him to a country club. It would be ludicrous for Hawthorn to suggest that a sacked player was 'required' and for Geelong to pay Hawthorn $60,000 for the transfer of that sacked player. It might have been a mutual agreement for Ablett to spend some time in Myrtleford to some extent, but ultimately, Hawthorn receiving money from Geelong clearly suggests it was Ablett's decision to leave. Otherwise, Hawthorn wouldn't have been entitled to anything.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Paul McNamee, went from a cushy job at Tennis Australia to CEO at Melbourne for 5 mins, getting the flick because basically he was a piker who actually did no work at the Club

 

[go you pups]

Someone on here did an analysis of the 'Veale Deal' and found that it could be considered that all clubs involved had ended up losers, with no winners at all....

Not one of my clubs finest moments to be honest....

Danny Jacobs was traded to Hawthorn, Rawlings came to us and we gave Pick 6 to Essendon which was Kepler Bradley. Richmond gave us pick 6 earlier that week for Nathan Brown and Veale never played. None of those players had luck with injuries or form after those moves.

 

[Concussion]

Again - I am in no way playing it down. It did turn out to be very ironic, and Bucks would've copped a lot for it during thos GF years - and the media did bring it up quite a bit back then. Its also that one thing that someone like Vossy can hold over Bucks - if you use the flags to rate Voss ahead of Bucks, then that is fair and not something I can argue with... but I would bet that most other AFL players (other than those who tick both the elite, and flag-winning boxes) would give anything to have the type of career that Bucks had.

But that should not take anything away from the level of player that Bucks was - and again, it is ridiculous to suggest that his career as a player was riches-to-rags, or that he in any way belongs in this thread.

Now all that needs to happen is Buckley should return the Norm Smith to its rightful owner in Voss.

 

[Concussion]

Great story you should see if you can do a small cartoon piece in the Sun each Sunday.

Buckley is a pig of a man and there are numerous stories of his arrogance, one of which I experienced first hand.

 

[Sttew]

Buckley is a pig of a man and there are numerous stories of his arrogance, one of which I experienced first hand.

You cannot leave us hanging!! Do tell your story. We don't mind if you use fictitious names to protect the innocent!

 

[Riccardo11]

St Kilda fell from glamor club to battling for survival (again) by stupidly sacking Stan Alves for a completely untried ex-champion who was working as a sports reporter and then hiring a thoroughly disinterested Malcolm Blight, who was then sacked halfway through the year because his successor was mates with the boss and put the pressure on from below.

Not especially proud of those years.

 

[edgie]

St Kilda fell from glamor club to battling for survival (again) by stupidly sacking Stan Alves for a completely untried ex-champion who was working as a sports reporter and then hiring a thoroughly disinterested Malcolm Blight, who was then sacked halfway through the year because his successor was mates with the boss and put the pressure on from below.

Not especially proud of those years.

I'd hardly call St Kilda a glamour club after a few decent years in the 90s... the 60s and early 70s maybe, but not the 90s.

 

[Riccardo11]

I'd hardly call St Kilda a glamour club after a few decent years in the 90s... the 60s and early 70s maybe, but not the 90s.

Sorry, I was there before, during and after the period and we were definitely the glamor side of the competition. It may not have lasted long, but after the club nearly disappeared in the 80's, seeing it have some success captured the imagination of the footy public, even if it was briefly.

 

[edgie]

But using a whole club... Port.

Became the first traditional club to be entered in the AFL/VFL in 70 odd years, then has to change it's logo and colours. Then starts marketing itself as a completely different club to attract more supporters, and producing guernseys way out of touch with the established base. Begins to play an uncharacteristic game style under favourite son Choco, and choking in key finals. Eventually wins a flag, and all is set right, as Choco acknowledges the clubs true 100+ year existence, before then having a crack at our main sponsor and ****ing it up again. Unable to back it up next year with an embarrassing finals loss to cross town rivals. Have a mini rebuild the next year, and find ourself challenging again for the flag the year after, justifying ourselves as a very competitive club that was driven for success. We all know what happened after that, and spend the next 3 years in no mans land, losing the un-losable, resigning underperforming Choco, and allowing a tail wags the dog mentality to set in. Eventually Choco steps aside under enormous pressure, and club hires favourite son Primus after a decent trial run as caretaker. Things go from bad to worse and we barely avoid the spoon with a last round win at what is to become our future home, Adelaide Oval. Marketing and presentation slowly begins to improve and connect with the fan base more, merchandise improves to a more traditional quality. Primus starts the year ok but things collapse again mid season, and he is let go after the GWS loss.

Only now have we begun set ourselves on the right path under Ken, Keith Thomas, Burgess, and David Koch.

 

[edgie]

Sorry, I was there before, during and after the period and we were definitely the glamor side of the competition. It may not have lasted long, but after the club nearly disappeared in the 80's, seeing it have some success captured the imagination of the footy public, even if it was briefly.

Would you say losing the greatest ever goal kicker may have definitely hurt that as well?

 

[Riccardo11]

Would you say losing the greatest ever goal kicker may have definitely hurt that as well?

Not certain why you've chosen to come for me, but the comment really makes no sense. Lockett (who I gather you are referring to) has nothing to do with the 1997 GF, having left several seasons prior to that. Both he and the club had well and truly moved on by then. Can't deny it's a hard loss to get over, but he has absolutely nothing to do with the club rising to prominence in 1996/7, or the fall from grace that followed.

 

[Handsome.B.Wonderful]

There's a fair bit of myth in this one, most of it perpetuated by North supporters.

Buckley was always going to Collingwood, even before he served his time in Brisbane. The magpies link had that well and truly sealed.

The fact he wasn't interested in offers from North (who were clearly in a far better state premiership wise than Collingwood at the time) had nothing to do with premierships. It's certainly fair to say he felt his chances of a flag would be better served leaving Brisbane - he never once said Collingwood provided a better chance than North, however.

You're completely wrong here.

Buckley signed a contract and accepted a payment of $10k from North when he was 19 years old.

The AFL stepped in and forced him to go to Brisbane due to the current days zoning for Darwin players, he never wanted to go there.

Once Buckley got to Brisbane he was no longer obliged to go to North, although he had already accepted their money.

Denis Pagan tells a story about how he went to visit Buckley in his hotel room at the Southbank Sheraton one day and he never got off the bed to address Pagan, instead lying back casually eating an apple having accepted an offer from Collingwood to play there, Pagan claims that his reason for going to Collingwood was "to play finals football and win premierships."

From then on Pagan made a point of bringing this up in every pre-match address against Collingwood and the North players certainly sledged Buckley every time we played them after the 96 flag. Many players have confirmed this version of events.

 

[Handsome.B.Wonderful]

No he's not.

Everyone knew he was going to Collingwood at the start of '93. North tried to intervene but they were never ever in the hunt.

See above post.

You're wrong. He was signed up as a North player and accepted a $10k payment at 19 years old, the year before the AFL forced him to go to Brisbane. At that stage he was happy to go to North, only after that Collingwood got in his ear and promised finals and premierships.

At the time he was living in Adelaide so he was technically not in the Darwin zone, he should never have been forced to play in Brisbane.

 

[edgie]

Not certain why you've chosen to come for me, but the comment really makes no sense. Lockett (who I gather you are referring to) has nothing to do with the 1997 GF, having left several seasons prior to that. Both he and the club had well and truly moved on by then. Can't deny it's a hard loss to get over, but he has absolutely nothing to do with the club rising to prominence in 1996/7, or the fall from grace that followed.

Not picking on you, I've freely admit before that St Kilda are my second team and openly barracked for them across all grand finals they've made in my lifetime. I just hope they don't revert to old ways, and I think that by stating they were a glamour during those years is setting a low bar.