Malthouse V Buckley

[Gone Critical]

Malthouse would obviously dearly love to win a flag(s) as would every person at the club and that is unquestionably the aim. That is not the point though. I also believe Malthouse aims too low. I base this in a decade of results, the sale of those results and the strategies put in place or not put in place to improve results.

I am glad Buckley is there in the wings. Maybe it is coincidence but all of a sudden (ie for the first time in a decade under Malthouse) we have made a solid attempt to address the main weaknesses that saw us not win the flag. We targeted two areas – ruck and grunt in the midfield – and got the players we targeted.

I understand that both you and Fu believe MM is too conservative and if he made bolder decisions he would be more successful. But fo Fu to couch it in terms of "opting for 4th continuously " doesnt help the argument. Thats clearly not in anyones mindset.

Malthouse no doubt believes he is maximising the chance for success. What coach wouldnt.

 

[Zvim]

I think it would be hilarious if Malthouse won a flag in the next couple of years, to see them force him out in favour of an unknown would be priceless.

 

[Gone Critical]

I think it would be hilarious if Malthouse won a flag in the next couple of years, to see them force him out in favour of an unknown would be priceless.

We would all love seeing that!!!!

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We would all love seeing that!!!!

Yeah, I'd love to see the look on his face!!!!!

 

[Falchoon]

We would all love seeing that!!!!

Should that happen I will no longer be here

 

[Gone Critical]

Should that happen I will no longer be here

Gee, dont hand out the incentives so readily

 

[MarkT2]

I am another who would find great pleasure in seeing Collingwood placed in the position of having to deal with a premiership before Malthouse's contract to coach is up.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I am another who would find great pleasure in seeing Collingwood placed in the position of having to deal with a premiership before Malthouse's contract to coach is up.

or two.............

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Win a flag and he goes out on top, not win a flag theres no knives coming out to chop the coach because his replacement is already in the drivers seat and ready to take the L plates off the windscreen.

 

[NOCHANCE]

Win a flag and he goes out on top, not win a flag theres no knives coming out to chop the coach because his replacement is already in the drivers seat and ready to take the L plates off the windscreen.

Its a shame then that Malthouse who is apparently a football guru has stated Buckley is a mile off being ready. Hardly a glowing endorsement for the coach in waiting.

 

[FuManchu]

Fu you continuously come up with this thought about opting for 4th place. Where does it come from other than your belief that Malthouse is too conservative.

He clearly aims for higher than 4th place, its laughable to believe otherwise. You may not agree with his methods but to continuously muddy your arguments with made up assertions just makes your ideas harder to follow.

Go onto the Collingwood board and read how they revel in finals appearances, its like they have been brainwashed into thinking that finals appearances is enough. Not too many demand that malthouse takes this list further. They sit back and pat themselves on the back and say 'NEXT YEAR"! NEXT YEAR never comes.

4th place, or finals for that matter is glorified as being an achievement, at times the ultimate achievement, when in reality, finals is meant to be a gradual rise thru the ranks to premier. I think malthouse opts for safe options, knowing that he cant take the list any higher, but is good enough to get finals which makes it harder to dispense with his services. But finishing in finals but not progressing to premier,........... well, thats nothing, might as well finish last and get the prime draft picks.

Then you hear the sycophants explain how malthouse is such a great coach to take this average list so high. Not many actually concede that the reason the list is lacking is because of Malthouse and his drafting/ recruiting policies and the recruiting team he has put in place.

So Malthouse's continual failure to land a flag is either because his game plan is flawed or his drafting/recruiting is flawed, or a combination of both. Because if he was so damn magnificant at all aspects of coaching/list management/ construction, he would have won a flag. And going by our efforts last September, we are a long way off that.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Its a shame then that Malthouse who is apparently a football guru has stated Buckley is a mile off being ready. Hardly a glowing endorsement for the coach in waiting.

A mile isnt far. Bucks can walk a mile in two years.

 

[Gone Critical]

Its a shame then that Malthouse who is apparently a football guru has stated Buckley is a mile off being ready. Hardly a glowing endorsement for the coach in waiting.

Stop being so literal , it pays to think and read between the lines when it comes to coaches comments

 

[Gone Critical]

Go onto the Collingwood board and read how they revel in finals appearances, its like they have been brainwashed into thinking that finals appearances is enough. Not too many demand that malthouse takes this list further. They sit back and pat themselves on the back and say 'NEXT YEAR"! NEXT YEAR never comes.

4th place, or finals for that matter is glorified as being an achievement, at times the ultimate achievement, when in reality, finals is meant to be a gradual rise thru the ranks to premier. I think malthouse opts for safe options, knowing that he cant take the list any higher, but is good enough to get finals which makes it harder to dispense with his services. But finishing in finals but not progressing to premier,........... well, thats nothing, might as well finish last and get the prime draft picks.

Then you hear the sycophants explain how malthouse is such a great coach to take this average list so high. Not many actually concede that the reason the list is lacking is because of Malthouse and his drafting/ recruiting policies and the recruiting team he has put in place.

So Malthouse's continual failure to land a flag is either because his game plan is flawed or his drafting/recruiting is flawed, or a combination of both. Because if he was so damn magnificant at all aspects of coaching/list management/ construction, he would have won a flag. And going by our efforts last September, we are a long way off that.

I read the board daily and I havent noticed any feeling that finals is a good enough result , that a premiership isnt the goal the club should aim at.

I respect that you feel MM is the wrong man for the job but this continual theme that if you support Malthouse you dont really count flags as the aim of the club wears thin

As for your conspiracy theories that Malthouse compromises the chase for a flag and finishes finalist only to preserve his own job please please please. Thats a fiction of the highest order and tarnishes anything sensible you have to say

 

[mattys123]

Go onto the Collingwood board and read how they revel in finals appearances, its like they have been brainwashed into thinking that finals appearances is enough. Not too many demand that malthouse takes this list further. They sit back and pat themselves on the back and say 'NEXT YEAR"! NEXT YEAR never comes.

Why don't you go on to the Collingwood Board and have a look at the "FACT" that very few of us glorify or revel in finals appearances.

Oh wait, you can't because you haven't posted on their since everyone figured out you aren't actually a Collingwood supporter, or at least one that actually "supports" the players and the club.

We all "hope" that Malthouse takes this list further, and most of us see the recruitment of Jolly and Ball as a sign Malthouse is not resting on his laurels and is attempting a "realistic premiership push".

In unrelated news (somewhat), interesting comment by Matthew Llyod today on radio saying that Darren Jolly is the one player Collingwood can't afford to lose, hit it on the head did the velvet sledgehammer.

Now now everyone, please ignore Fu, all other Collingwood supporters do.

 

[loki04]

I read the board daily and I havent noticed any feeling that finals is a good enough result , that a premiership isnt the goal the club should aim at.

I respect that you feel MM is the wrong man for the job but this continual theme that if you support Malthouse you dont really count flags as the aim of the club wears thin

As for your conspiracy theories that Malthouse compromises the chase for a flag and finishes finalist only to preserve his own job please please please. Thats a fiction of the highest order and tarnishes anything sensible you have to say

It is the general feel of the pies supporters who post on there in Malthouse's defense.

FuManchu is right in saying if you read over all the discussion the main point for Malthouse is we make the finals more often then not.

He like myself want to build a dominant list capable of a 3-5 year shot at a flag/flags. Not be happy making up the numbers each season before having 3 mini rebuilds in 10 years.

Still will be a great year, list is in great shape and should be a good year... flag is doubtful but who knows.

Go pies.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'm happy with fourth.

 

[Scodog10]

I'm happy with fourth.

Are u being serious???

I agree with everything Fu has stated about Malthouse, I dont agree with his beliefs on the collingwood big footy board however everything he said about Malthouse is correct

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Are u being serious???

What do you reckon?

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

I'm happy with fourth.

I'm sure you're fishing Timmy, but this has been a problem with Collingwood for far too long.

 

[FuManchu]

Why don't you go on to the Collingwood Board and have a look at the "FACT" that very few of us glorify or revel in finals appearances.

Oh wait, you can't because you haven't posted on their since everyone figured out you aren't actually a Collingwood supporter, or at least one that actually "supports" the players and the club.

We all "hope" that Malthouse takes this list further, and most of us see the recruitment of Jolly and Ball as a sign Malthouse is not resting on his laurels and is attempting a "realistic premiership push".

In unrelated news (somewhat), interesting comment by Matthew Llyod today on radio saying that Darren Jolly is the one player Collingwood can't afford to lose, hit it on the head did the velvet sledgehammer.

Now now everyone, please ignore Fu, all other Collingwood supporters do.

And here we have a typical example of the insular thinking of some supporters, who dare not criticise the obvious for fear of being seen to be disloyal. I reckon that if you dont question the status quo, and in Collingwood's case, status quo is quite pertinent, then i think you are disloyal to what Collingwood should be aspiring to.

I have been hoping malthouse would take the list from 8th to 1st in the last 4 years, but instead, we get mired down in the middle of the finalists, no plan B to go a fair way further. But i'll give malthouse some credit, he is now swapping on field deficiencies from midfield and ruck deficiencies to forward line deficiencies. Is that evolving or just another example of poor list management?

He has had 10 years to get a flag winning list together, other coaches rarely get half that time. He is falling down somewhere, you tell us where he is falling down.

 

[Pie eyed]

It is the general feel of the pies supporters who post on there in Malthouse's defense.

FuManchu is right in saying if you read over all the discussion the main point for Malthouse is we make the finals more often then not.

He like myself want to build a dominant list capable of a 3-5 year shot at a flag/flags. Not be happy making up the numbers each season before having 3 mini rebuilds in 10 years.

Still will be a great year list is in great shape and should be a good year flag is doubtful but who knows.

Go pies.

I think your just spinning the line to justify your dislike for Malthouse.
I don't know anyone who holds the view that they are happy with fourth on the Magpies Board. Some who don't think Malthouse its up to the job, which is their right, sprout that shit ad infinitum, because it makes them feel less insignificant amongst the large proportion of supporters who do feel Malthouse is up to the job. You may well be right that another coach may do a better job but as a minority you have to resort to the old "everyone else is blind but us" garbage and to top it off attribute a false level of passion to anyone who doesn't swallow your guff. This sort of rubbish is the sole reason many of us on the Pies board take umbrage and the sole reason many who perpetrate the myth no longer post there.

If you constantly answer every other view with an elitist snub which has no foundation after a while people stop listening to what you have to say and dismiss you as a crackpot. It's human nature. Do it in conversation and you'd rapidly become a pariah.
Every Collingwood supporter I know wants a flag every year.

 

[mattys123]

And here we have a typical example of the insular thinking of some supporters, who dare not criticise the obvious for fear of being seen to be disloyal. I reckon that if you dont question the status quo, and in Collingwood's case, status quo is quite pertinent, then i think you are disloyal to what Collingwood should be aspiring to.

I have been hoping malthouse would take the list from 8th to 1st in the last 4 years, but instead, we get mired down in the middle of the finalists, no plan B to go a fair way further. But i'll give malthouse some credit, he is now swapping on field deficiencies from midfield and ruck deficiencies to forward line deficiencies. Is that evolving or just another example of poor list management?

He has had 10 years to get a flag winning list together, other coaches rarely get half that time. He is falling down somewhere, you tell us where he is falling down.

First, thank you for the compliment, calling me a "typical" Collingwood supporter, WHICH I PROUDLY AM, a member of a proud group of which you obviously no longer feel any passion or belief for.

As for the example of the last 4 years, have you noticed a few little things CALLED RETIREMENTS. And not just any retirements, but some of the greatest players to play for our great club maybe ever, if not at least in the last 20 years. Names like Buckley, Burns, Liciuria, Rocca, Clement, Wakelin (ok maybe stretching it a bit there), but you get the point.

Malthouse got us up and almost achieved the impossible in 02 and 03, and he is now on the verge of another "realistic" attempt at a flag.

And that's what you will read and hear from most supporters, that we have done well to sustain a place in the finals and the top 4 at times during such a time of "rebuilding", where some great players have left us and some very young players have been introduced.

Most pies supporters have always seen our premiership window with the current list at 2011-2014, while I myself maybe place it one year earlier, and have publicly stated so.

Keep living in your own minority based little world though Fu, you are simply one of the reasons why most Collingwood posters spend more time on the Collingwood board then here, and let me tell you they are some of the most intelligent, passionate, knowledgeable supporters I have ever met in my 25 years of supporting this great club.

I will defend the Collingwood Board here on BigFooty to the end, but I just didn't think I would have to continue to do it against posters who are apparently fellow supporters.

Follow the motto Fu, SIDE BY SIDE WE STICK TOGETHER, or simply piss off and stop degrading our team at every opportunity.

 

[FuManchu]

First, thank you for the compliment, calling me a "typical" Collingwood supporter, WHICH I PROUDLY AM, a member of a proud group of which you obviously no longer feel any passion or belief for.

I have more passion for this club than you will ever realise, a passion that makes me say what I feel in spite of the ridicule.

As for the example of the last 4 years, have you noticed a few little things CALLED RETIREMENTS. And not just any retirements, but some of the greatest players to play for our great club maybe ever, if not at least in the last 20 years. Names like Buckley, Burns, Liciuria, Rocca, Clement, Wakelin (ok maybe stretching it a bit there), but you get the point.

Retirements happen all the time, forward planning also happens all the time. Better drafting occurs at other clubs which allows them to cover these losses. Explain to me how the current malaise we have in the forward line has been covered, given that Rocca was kept on the list 2 years past his effective prime. Given the fact that Maltouse neglected the ruck and midfield divisions for so long by not recruiting any real good rucks until he spent a bit on getting wood and waited 6 years to address the midfield before taking pendlebury, explain to me that philosophy. If malthouse had addressed those areas earlier than he had, we may have snavelled a flag in 2002. he opted for short term recruiting in the likes of Steinfort. We have had a history of recruiting plodders.

Malthouse got us up and almost achieved the impossible in 02 and 03, and he is now on the verge of another "realistic" attempt at a flag.

From what I saw in September, a 13 goal flogging by Geelong, doesnt show me we are on the verge of anything too great. The forward line will be our achilles heel going forward.

And that's what you will read and hear from most supporters, that we have done well to sustain a place in the finals and the top 4 at times during such a time of "rebuilding", where some great players have left us and some very young players have been introduced.

Thats the problem, by sticking around the finals, you dont get the best drafting opportunities. We were never realistic chances excpet we nearly lucked it in 2007. And by hovering around the finals for 4 years, we will suffer fro a lack of good drafting picks in the following years. To rise thse days,you got to hit the bottom. malthouse has saved his own arse by getting finals appearances, but effectively limited the ability to grab one or two elite draft picks by accepting that we have to fall to rise to the very top. ( hawthorn ring a bell?)

Most pies supporters have always seen our premiership window with the current list at 2011-2014, while I myself maybe place it one year earlier, and have publicly stated so.

most Pies supporters on the collingwood board have been saying NEXT Year since 2006, especially after 2007. last years 4th is no different. What they fail to see is the extent of the loss to geelong, the extent of the gap between us and hawthorn who will rise again this year nd the fact that st Kilda probably are 10 goals better than us. we may shorten that gap, but how are we going to be a 10 goal better side this year against those 3 sides?

Keep living in your own minority based little world though Fu, you are simply one of the reasons why most Collingwood posters spend more time on the Collingwood board then here, and let me tell you they are some of the most intelligent, passionate, knowledgeable supporters I have ever met in my 25 years of supporting this great club.

Passion doesnt mean intelligence, in fact it could mean blind ignorance. maybe they just havent seen 47 years of failure ( 1990 excepted) that I have. Maybe most are too scared to dare criticise in case the great majority of morons jump down their throats.

I will defend the Collingwood Board here on BigFooty to the end, but I just didn't think I would have to continue to do it against posters who are apparently fellow supporters.

The Collingwood board is obviously a very precious place, otherwise they would allow dissenting views and not have banned a number of posters like myself. But the great collective of sycophantic insular types whinged long and hard to remove certain people who dare question just so you could all cuddle each other and reassure that all is right.

Follow the motto Fu, SIDE BY SIDE WE STICK TOGETHER, or simply piss off and stop degrading our team at every opportunity.

You can throw cliches which have little meaning to you, all you want. If you were so committed to this cliche, you'd allow and welcome criticism of what is the status quo because that is how things advance. Because isnt that an inclusive statement? Inclusive of all opinions?

Come game day, I hope like hell that we win. I hate losing more than anything else in my life, including my ex. The minute the siren sounds tho, I will question what I have seen. I dont just mindlessly follow like you obviously do.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'm sure you're fishing Timmy, but this has been a problem with Collingwood for far too long.

Fu implying that Malthouse "supporters" (for lack of a better term) are happy with fourth is the real fishing.

But its bullshit. Our problem has never been being too happy with what we haven't achieved.

I think the spirited debate on this board by Collingwood supporters only goes to show our passion. Although we have different views about Malthouse we both have the same objective in mind when formulating our arguments - ie what is the best way to bring a premiership to Collingwood as soon as possible.