Malthouse V Buckley

[BlueTouchPaper]

Its a cop out to measure flags as the only measure of success.

I tend to disagree with this, specifically for coaches.

Three examples : -

Eddie's time at the club was a success - He stabilized the club, recruited some of the best talent, staff and sponsors, as well as reinforcing the clubs' position as a power house.

Buckley's time at the club was a success - he made himself a club champion, one of the sports' elite and will be remembered forever in the Collingwood annals as a favourite son, deservedly so.

AND;

Malthouse's time at the club was a success - he coached the players well and was a real good mentor to many young kids, he led them to several finals series.

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The last one doesn't quite click. For me at least. He has been a great coach, but has had the benefit of probably the best football department and assistant coaching panel going for the majority of his Collingwood tenure, but hasn't quite delivered the ultimate prize. His 'time at the club', in this example, would be a 'limited success' at best.

In fact I dare say you would suggest Malthouse himself, didn't enjoy success at Collingwood, whereas he did at West Coast.

 

[loki04]

I tend to disagree with this, specifically for coaches.

Three examples : -

Eddie's time at the club was a success - He stabilized the club, recruited some of the best talent, staff and sponsors, as well as reinforcing the clubs' position as a power house.

Buckley's time at the club was a success - he made himself a club champion, one of the sports' elite and will be remembered forever in the Collingwood annals as a favourite son, deservedly so.

AND;

Malthouse's time at the club was a success - he coached the players well and was a real good mentor to many young kids, he led them to several finals series.

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The last one doesn't quite click. For me at least. He has been a great coach, but has had the benefit of probably the best football department and assistant coaching panel going for the majority of his Collingwood tenure, but hasn't quite delivered the ultimate prize. His 'time at the club', in this example, would be a 'limited success' at best.

In fact I dare say you would suggest Malthouse himself, didn't enjoy success at Collingwood, whereas he did at West Coast.

I would define Malthouses tenure as "competitive" not a "success" nor a tony Shaw abysmal "failure".

 

[mattys123]

While the validity of Malthouse's reign at Collingwood can be argued over, anyone who wants to start trouble by suggesting that Malthouse and Buckley will come to "blows" if everything doesn't go well for the pies in the next 2 years is kidding themselves.

Both Nathan and Mick are undoubtedly 2 of the most "high of character" people in football, who usually keep their feelings on club matters in house without resorting to media bashing like some suggest will happen.

To put it simply, MM and Bucks won't have any trouble with their relationship in the next 2 years, it might be the time after that when Bucks takes over and MM is in the "newly created role without a name" that problems may arise.

As for whether MM's time at Collingwood has been a success or not, ultimately it hasn't been, just like Buckley's playing career never reached the ultimate high, but unlike Bucks' playing career, MM still has 2 years left to add to his record as pies coach.

I just wonder how many will rate MM if we are able to win a flag in 2010 and/or 2011.

 

[D I D A K #4]

Do we classify Gary Ablett Snrs Career as a failure because he never won a premiership?

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

I would define Malthouses tenure as "competitive" not a "success" nor a tony Shaw abysmal "failure".

Competitive is probably a perfect description for it - He faced some of the great modern 'dynasties' and came up just short - by the same token he had the scope to create a dynasty of his own.

Do we classify Gary Ablett Snrs Career as a failure because he never won a premiership?

I hope you weren't referring to my post.

 

[loki04]

Do we classify Gary Ablett Snrs Career as a failure because he never won a premiership?

Did Gary Ablett coach a side for 10 years without winning a flag?


Coaching success and playing success are different, players are reliant on the team around them, the structures in place, coaching methods, fitness staff, game plans ect.

All of which the head coach is responsible for!

A player can be a success without a flag through other means BnF, Norm smiths, BL, MVP, Coleman ect ect.

A flag is team success, not individual player success.

 

[Falchoon]

All collingwoods supporters wanted our greatest player to coach us thats a gimee but MM has been a great coach and we certainly didnt want him out.

wow, Collingwood supporters now want Luke Ball to coach .

 

[Pie eyed]

wow, Collingwood supporters now want Luke Ball to coach .

The reality is Choon, that a lot of oppo supporters were banking on getting some pleasure from either Malty getting the flick last year, Bucks getting overlooked by the Pies, Buck going somewhere other than Collingwood, Bucks missing out on a coaching gig altogether or their holy of holies, Malty getting the flick and Bucks missing another gig.

The fact that their other favourite whipping boy, Eddie, managed to not only crush most but all of their hopes has left them bitter and without joy.

Really you all just feel cheated.


and.....................







































WE GOT LUKE BALL............hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Exactly right we wouldnt be on the verge of a premiership without him.

Except he has had a lot of high draft picks, including priority picks. And you're not on the verge of a premiership.

 

[Gavin Excell]

The reality is Choon, that a lot of oppo supporters were banking on getting some pleasure from either Malty getting the flick last year, Bucks getting overlooked by the Pies, Buck going somewhere other than Collingwood, Bucks missing out on a coaching gig altogether or their holy of holies, Malty getting the flick and Bucks missing another gig.

The fact that their other favourite whipping boy, Eddie, managed to not only crush most but all of their hopes has left them bitter and without joy.

Really you all just feel cheated.


and.....................







































WE GOT LUKE BALL............hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

I guess we are left to take solace/enjoyment in your inability to win anything

 

[Pie eyed]

I guess we are left to take solace/enjoyment in your inability to win anything

Great retort.

Your mother wears army boots.

 

[AKA The Joker]

All this talk of Malthouse not being good enough yet was there any possibilty that he would not be coaching another AFL team if he got the punt from the Pies?

The fact of the matter is we have not had strong enough team to win a flag, we pushed a few of the great teams in Brisbane in 2002 Grand Final and Geelong in 2007 Preliminary but thats it.
Is Malthouse responsible for these shortcomings, yes I'm sure he would hold himself accountable for those losses, but he is not wholly and soley to blame.
We have never been a superpower side in the Brisbane/Geelong mould during Malthouse's tenure.
I like the way Malthouse coaches, its a tough, hard, uncompromising gameplan which demands gut busting run. It seems to unfold when players are not prepared to do/or cannot physically do the work required for that type of game plan.

 

[Falchoon]

The reality is Choon, that a lot of oppo supporters were banking on getting some pleasure from either Malty getting the flick last year, Bucks getting overlooked by the Pies, Buck going somewhere other than Collingwood, Bucks missing out on a coaching gig altogether or their holy of holies, Malty getting the flick and Bucks missing another gig.

The fact that their other favourite whipping boy, Eddie, managed to not only crush most but all of their hopes has left them bitter and without joy.

Really you all just feel cheated.

and.....................

We'd be devastated if Mick left Collingwood, I mean who else would play 1 unfit ruckman v the Saints. "Here you go Lenny, have another tap out"

I personally enjoy Malthouse's innovative idea of letting Sam Fisher run free, 65 marks in the last 5 encounters, usually followed by a run and accurate delivery might mean it's about time for a change in tactic, the ox is certainly slow.

 

[The Fireman]

The coaches box simply won't be able to accommodate such massive egos.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Great retort.

Your mother wears army boots.

agree its not top shelf - I toyed with a number of responses but thought in the end that FACTS while dull, can still be pretty cutting.

 

[Gavin Excell]

The coaches box simply won't be able to accommodate such massive egos.

Hang on.

Are you suggesting that Malthouse refused to make obvious changes to woeful match ups because it would be tantamount to admitting the coaching genuis was wrong?



These are controversial comments Firey.

 

[The Fireman]

Hang on.

Are you suggesting that Malthouse refused to make obvious changes to woeful match ups because it would be tantamount to admitting the coaching genuis was wrong?



These are controversial comments Firey.

And so unlike me but I'll stand by them.

 

[Pie eyed]

We'd be devastated if Mick left Collingwood, I mean who else would play 1 unfit ruckman v the Saints. "Here you go Lenny, have another tap out"

I personally enjoy Malthouse's innovative idea of letting Sam Fisher run free, 65 marks in the last 5 encounters, usually followed by a run and accurate delivery might mean it's about time for a change in tactic, the ox is certainly slow.

Well what's your problem then?
You got your wish.

 

[Gone Critical]

We'd be devastated if Mick left Collingwood, I mean who else would play 1 unfit ruckman v the Saints. "Here you go Lenny, have another tap out"

I personally enjoy Malthouse's innovative idea of letting Sam Fisher run free, 65 marks in the last 5 encounters, usually followed by a run and accurate delivery might mean it's about time for a change in tactic, the ox is certainly slow.

Falchoon , You seem to fancy yourself as a sh-t stirrer but you fire a lot of blanks.

Congratulations on another posting thats noteworthy only because it again contains nothing that contributes to the issue being discussed.

You may take some perceived joy from your feelings of superiority but you are touting a club that has no foundation to give you such beliefs. St Kilda dont have any history of making Collingwood their whipping boy, the opposite is true over the journey. A couple of good victories in 2008-9 doesnt make a dynasty.

Not trying to be offensive here. I like the Saints and was guenuinely devestated for your team losing last years flag but you havent got any sustance behind your claims above

I am not into throwing the muck myself but recognise Gavin Excell to be the same sort of sh-t stirrer as yourself. He doesnt seem too clever but at least his club has given him some ammunition to fire with.

My advice to you is wait til you have some bullets in the cartridge before you start firing indiscriminantly. That way you may occasinally hit something like Excell has done these last few years

 

[Pie eyed]

agree its not top shelf - I toyed with a number of responses but thought in the end that FACTS while dull, can still be pretty cutting.

Sorry. Been off down the clinic getting some stitches.
Now where were we?

 

[Falchoon]

Falchoon , You seem to fancy yourself as a sh-t stirrer but you fire a lot of blanks.

Congratulations on another posting thats noteworthy only because it again contains nothing that contributes to the issue being discussed.

You may take some perceived joy from your feelings of superiority but you are touting a club that has no foundation to give you such beliefs. St Kilda dont have any history of making Collingwood their whipping boy, the opposite is true over the journey. A couple of good victories in 2008-9 doesnt make a dynasty.

Not trying to be offensive here. I like the Saints and was guenuinely devestated for your team losing last years flag but you havent got any sustance behind your claims above

I am not into throwing the muck myself but recognise Gavin Excell to be the same sort of sh-t stirrer as yourself. He doesnt seem too clever but at least his club has given him some ammunition to fire with.

My advice to you is wait til you have some bullets in the cartridge before you start firing indiscriminantly. That way you may occasinally hit something like Excell has done these last few years

Dude, if you think the position of my team has any bearing on my observations, you're after the wrong poster.

As I said elsewhere, from above or below a turkey is a turkey.

Here is a witty observation I made earlier

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107732

 

[Crow-mo]

It doesnt matter where we finished, this thread is about Mick and his lack of success in 10 years. Fact is that he has had more chances than any other coach in the modern history of the game and he has been a failure.

of course it matters where you finished when you make hysterical comments about the other 15 clubs being thankful. you're memory isn't that bad.

Erm, it's 2010 this year, and in 2009 they finished 4th and 80+ points shy of the premier, this is fact.

As for 2007, you might want to check both your maths and your memory. They were 6 points shy of a grand final appearance, anything can happen on the big day as the Hawks proved in 2008.

ooooh yes, you sure showed me. 6 points, not 5. oooh way to lay down the smack, that changes everything - ps. they lost by 5 points.

and again, regarding your alzheimers, your comment was that after 7 years they're still miles away which is factually untrue. in fact they have made the prelim 2 of the last 3 years.

I'd try and block out the memories too if I made such silly comments.

There's progression and there's success, they are not the same thing. Ask any player or coach in the AFL their ultimate footballing ambition and I'm pretty sure their response won't be regular finals appearances.

Who finished 4th in 1982? I've got no idea, but I can tell you without blinking that Carlton were premiers. 4th means nothing

blah blah blah.... let me correct your woefully misguided assertions once again: have they advanced? yes. so what's your point, do you have one?

 

[Crow-mo]

Has done a great job keeping the club in finals without alot of top draft pics imo.
Would love to see how Coll would have gone without him.

well check out 1985 - 1999 for your answer.

 

[Crow-mo]

Did Gary Ablett coach a side for 10 years without winning a flag?

how many flags have you won in the last 50 years?

do the maths, and consider where the idea that you should necessarily have a flag every 10 years comes from?

winning a flag involves a little bit of luck, at the end of the day you need to competing at the sharp of the end of the season and hope for that little bit of luck. all teams do. an ounce of luck and you guys have flags in 2002 & 2007.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Except he has had a lot of high draft picks, including priority picks. And you're not on the verge of a premiership.

Fraser Didak Thomas Pendlebury Reid and N Brown are the only top ten picks on the list. Only one priority pick. And Reid was picked up via a trade so he doesnt count because we had to give away a quality player to get him.

You're talking out of your ass.

Would you like to swap them for Norths top ten picks? It would be line-ball.