Mandatory Vaccinations And Medical Exemptions

[master bate]

That's not the conclusion I'm making. Nothing is perfect or foolproof.
The point of the vaccinated is to offer them some protection.

The people who have cleared a path around their home have done what is possible to protect themselves from a likely threat of living in the bush.
What you are saying is you want to march into your neighbors house and run their property.

Now to the vaccines.
Covid is a risk. Yes Like all viruses. So to are vaccines. Up to each individual to assess circumstance and decide their choice.

Covid now like a bushfire is inevitable. By calling for mandatory vaccines you want to make the decision for others on how they best protect themselves but have them assume all the risk.

If your backyard is overrun with grass and tree branches and so on I can call the council and they can come issue you a Fire Prevention notice to clean it up, fine you or have someone clean it up for you and stick you with the bill. That's the cost of living in proximity to neighbours.

If you don't want a Fire Prevention notice you can move to the sticks and not have any neighbours and you'll be left alone.

I'm pro mandatory vaccines only for people working in industries where it's important and for a period of time until covid is really under control I'm for vaccine status to be required for certain activities - travel, going to the footy, cinemas, dining etc.

The risk/benefit for individuals of the vaccine is abundantly clear. The risk/benefit for the community even more so. If people don't want to get vaccinated I'm not suggesting anyone forces them but they simply have to be excluded from certain activities in the community for a period of time.

 

[projectv]

Slippery slope. Should there be mandates for people who drink too much, eat too much smoke etc in order to help themselves?

Amazing that you claim I gave a slippery slope argument (when I didn't) and the immediately present one yourself.

I gave that example because the mindset of an anti-vax person is always in relation to themselves and themselves alone. I pointed out that the decisions one unvaccinated person makes impacts the others who are unvaccinated.

How do you prove it thou? In that case you essentially are trying to prove asymptomatic spread. And given it has been acknowledged vaccinated people can still spread it are they too liable.

By trying to legislate control of a virus we are really on an impossible trajectory.

As I said, it's not a good path to go down as I agree it would be difficult to prove.

It's also difficult to prove health conditions brought on by vaccinations.

 

[Run n Spread]

Amazing that you claim I gave a slippery slope argument (when I didn't) and the immediately present one yourself.

I gave that example because the mindset of an anti-vax person is always in relation to themselves and themselves alone. I pointed out that the decisions one unvaccinated person makes impacts the others who are unvaccinated.



As I said, it's not a good path to go down as I agree it would be difficult to prove.

What makes you think I'm anti vax? I am vaxed btw.

But the zeal it has been pushed in proportion to the risk means people are entirely justified in waiting further or not getting it.

Never said you used a slippery slope argument that was a term i used.

Anyway question: Given nothings a guarantee and suppose the vaccines aren't as successful as we hope do you support another lockdown?
For how many years?
Lets say we have 100s of cases and hospitilisations daily including deaths. (like has occured in the UK) Will you support lockdowns especially since we've locked down sates over 1 case let alone death?

 

[faible]

What makes you think I'm anti vax? I am vaxed btw.

But the zeal it has been pushed in proportion to the risk means people are entirely justified in waiting further or not getting it.

Never said you used a slippery slope argument that was a term i used.

Anyway question: Given nothings a guarantee and suppose the vaccines aren't as successful as we hope do you support another lockdown?
For how many years?
Lets say we have 100s of cases and hospitilisations daily including deaths. (like has occured in the UK) Will you support lockdowns especially since we've locked down sates over 1 case let alone death?

How many deaths or hospitalisations per day do you think should be a trigger for lockdowns or restrictions in some form?

Remembering, COVID hospitalisations also take away from health system resources for everything else.

Pretending it doesn't exist, doesn't make the healthcare burden go away.

Vaccines at the very least appear to be showing a substantial reduction in healthcare burden from pretty much unchecked spread. Imperfect, but better than the alternatives.

 

[projectv]

What makes you think I'm anti vax? I am vaxed btw.

But the zeal it has been pushed in proportion to the risk means people are entirely justified in waiting further or not getting it.

Never said you used a slippery slope argument that was a term i used.

Anyway question: Given nothings a guarantee and suppose the vaccines aren't as successful as we hope do you support another lockdown?
For how many years?
Lets say we have 100s of cases and hospitilisations daily including deaths. (like has occured in the UK) Will you support lockdowns especially since we've locked down sates over 1 case let alone death?

We most likely won't need lockdowns once enough people are vaccinated.

Would I support them if the vaccines were no longer effective? It's academic as we can look around the world and see that they are, but in your hypothetical example, sure I might support them if they were warranted.

 

[Run n Spread]

We most likely won't need lockdowns once enough people are vaccinated.

Would I support them if the vaccines were no longer effective? It's academic as we can look around the world and see that they are, but in your hypothetical example, sure I might support them if they were warranted.

So without end. OK you're entitled to your pov. Respect your honesty.

 

[projectv]

So without end. OK you're entitled to your pov. Respect your honesty.

Not without end. I said once enough were vaccinated it won't be likely.

Your hypothetical example doesn't exist mate.

 

[Run n Spread]

Not without end. I said once enough were vaccinated it won't be likely.

Your hypothetical example doesn't exist mate.

We will find out soon enough. Next winter will settle it once and for all.

 

[HairyO]

That is a point I will concede. But like with everything there is risk.

Let me put it this way:
If you mandate vaccinations and there is an injury as a result should the government/manufacturers be liable and pay compensation?

If negligence can be proven maybe. If the medical evidence is that the benefits far outweigh the risks then I think the issue would be more with the medical advice. There are heaps of jobs where driving is a requirement. If you are in a car crash are you automatically covered by your company? I would think there are boxes which need to be ticked.

If we look at the reverse of this:
Is the company liable if someone gets COVID-19 and they werent vaccinated? If you refuse to vaccinate and get sick can the company fire you and not pay out any sick leave entitlements?

I assume its a 2-way street?

 

[kingswood71]

Let me put it this way:
If you mandate vaccinations and there is an injury as a result should the government/manufacturers be liable and pay compensation?

If a business doesnt require its staff to be vaccinated, and then an employer catches covid at work, is the employer liable and should pay compensation?

 

[Schnitzengruben]

If a business doesnt require its staff to be vaccinated, and then an employer catches covid at work, is the employer liable and should pay compensation?

How could that be proven beyond reasonable doubt where the COVID came from? Could be at home, the gym, the supermarket, church etc.

 

[kingswood71]

How could that be proven beyond reasonable doubt where the COVID came from? Could be at home, the gym, the supermarket, church etc.

Maybe the employee doesnt get out much...just work, isolate at home alone, uses home gym, gets shopping order dropped off
TBF, if I get covid, I can state almost categorically, it will acquired at work.

 

[Run n Spread]

If a business doesnt require its staff to be vaccinated, and then an employer catches covid at work, is the employer liable and should pay compensation?

No. Difference is if you are mandating something onus is on you.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Maybe the employee doesnt get out much...just work, isolate at home alone, uses home gym, gets shopping order dropped off
TBF, if I get covid, I can state almost categorically, it will acquired at work.

I feel like any half decent lawyer could pick that case apart tbh.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

That is entirely the point. You are protected thus serving its purpose. Who cares how others live?
Hell I'd rather not sit next to insert whatever personal gripe but that is besides the point.

You are admitting it isn't about health but your personal preference on who you'd like to deal with.

Don't totally agree.

Vaccine doesn't 100% prevent you from getting COVID.

It reduces the chances of getting it. And if you do get it, your chances of getting very sick are lower. So on a personal level, it doesn't matter if the person next to me is vax'd it not, it's whether they're carrying COVID or not. And if they're not vax'd, the chances of that are higher.

But the main issue with restricting non vax'd people is about reducing the spread in the community. Less movement, less spreading, less cases, less hospitalisation.

That's what it's about.


That, and of course providing incentive for people.

 

[Turnover]

How about just getting an injection or two of a bit of protein and everyone can move on. Have all the bullshit comparisons u want. Two needles ffs.

 

[kingswood71]

I feel like any half decent lawyer could pick that case apart tbh.

Probably
I am not mandatory vaccine btw. I actually respect free choice. Some exclusions I dont see as "mandatory", however thats disingenuous.....apparently.
I dont think the government will ever make a law saying "Thou shall be vaccinated against covid".

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Probably
I am not mandatory vaccine btw. I actually respect free choice. Some exclusions I dont see as "mandatory", however thats disingenuous.....apparently.
I dont think the government will ever make a law saying "Thou shall be vaccinated against covid".

Yep, same as me. Everyone should be able to make that choice, with a caveat or two of course.

I'm not yet, but I do plan to get Pfizer when it is readily available. But I think forcing people into getting vaccinated to participate in society is nothing short of Orwellian.

 

[Collingwood 4 eternity]

If say 20% of the population never get vaccinated, are business and entertainment & sports venues thinking that the fully vaccinated 80% are going to make up the financial differences going forward?

 

[HTT]

That's not the conclusion I'm making. Nothing is perfect or foolproof.
The point of the vaccinated is to offer them some protection.

The people who have cleared a path around their home have done what is possible to protect themselves from a likely threat of living in the bush.
What you are saying is you want to march into your neighbors house and run their property.

Now to the vaccines.
Covid is a risk. Yes Like all viruses. So to are vaccines. Up to each individual to assess circumstance and decide their choice.

Covid now like a bushfire is inevitable. By calling for mandatory vaccines you want to make the decision for others on how they best protect themselves but have them assume all the risk.

If my neighbour wasn’t doing the right thing by fire prevention, sure as anything I’d be getting them to fix it.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

If say 20% of the population never get vaccinated, are business and entertainment & sports venues thinking that the fully vaccinated 80% are going to make up the financial differences going forward?

It's not going to be 20% of every business' clientele that is unvac'd. It obviously doesn't work like that.

For most, it will make no difference at all.

 

[Blackhawk42]

If say 20% of the population never get vaccinated, are business and entertainment & sports venues thinking that the fully vaccinated 80% are going to make up the financial differences going forward?

It will be like it is in the US and UK right now. Not vaccinated? Just prove you have received a negative Covid test in the proceeding 72 hours or pay $80 for an instant test at the venue where the results are back in 15 minutes.

 

[The 747]

If say 20% of the population never get vaccinated, are business and entertainment & sports venues thinking that the fully vaccinated 80% are going to make up the financial differences going forward?

I would assume they would just put prices up. Prices will go up anyway to cover the cost of COVID compliance and to make up for lost revenue anyway.

 

[Nickoo]

Well, I disagree with that anyway. Much like Novak I am pro choice.

So many places that can host tournaments that if Australia chooses to take a mandatory vaccination path for them, it could be held anywhere else in the world.

No the unvaxed stay in their own bubble abs get tested all the time. Vaxed get to go about it as they normally would,


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[Lavender Bushranger]

COVID Hypocrisy No. 672:

I'm pro choice and you can't tell me what to out into my body.

I'm anti pro choice and you can't get an abortion.