Game Day Marsh Series- Matchday Discussion St Kilda@Collingwood(Morwell Reserve - 3:50PM)

[Go Woods]

HS running with story on Adams, will he play round 1? Didn't see all of today's game, is he injured? Or could he be suspended?

 

[left at home]

FM did we lose the prelim again today?

Worse, a practice match, with of our best on the pine for at least a quarter

 

[The Royal Sampler]

HS running with story on Adams, will he play round 1? Didn't see all of today's game, is he injured? Or could he be suspended?

I heard he tweaked a groin and was iced as a “precaution”.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I heard he tweaked a groin and was iced as a “precaution”.

Adams is key here, we lost our formidable game style last year because of his absence. We need a minimum 18 games out of him this including the GF if we're to win it.

You know I'm a believer in the role for role model i:e not personnel reliant, but Adams is key to our swarm game - without him will be very difficult to take the cup.

 

[Finnishpie]

HS running with story on Adams, will he play round 1? Didn't see all of today's game, is he injured? Or could he be suspended?

injured

 

[sr36]

Some of us noticed it, but as sco said, and l agree with him, one it’s a practice match, and you have to have more than one game plan.
And when half the team are not really committed, that’s the type of game you will get
If we are playing like this a third of the way through the season, then we should be concerned. These games are for to trial stuff not for points

I'm not convinced that you do have to have more than one game plan. The best teams of the last 15 years - Geelong, Hawthorn, Saints, Us, and Richmond all played a very predictable style with very minor tweaks. I think teams tend to lack cohesion and underachieve when they significantly chop and change their style to suit their opponent.

 

[sr36]

Luckily there's no relegation in the AFL, otherwise some here would offered that as their prediction.

Not a bad idea, would Division 2 flags count?

 

[sr36]

Diesel

I was going to say the same. Sam Mitchell deserves a spot in the conversation too.

 

[sr36]

I love the passion that everyone here shows and we should all know the result doesn’t matter. However, there are some concerns about the manner in which we had our colours lowered today which have been rightly pointed out.

First of all, let’s highlight that Pendles played 36% game time, Adams 55%, De Goey 73% and Moore 77%. Realistically, when they threw everything at us and only prevailed by 11 points with the cavalry we had on the line I’d be more concerned if I was in their camp.

Stating the obvious, our forward line and poor forward entries are the most glaring thing in need of being addressed. As I’ve said elsewhere, if you remove JDG and Billy from that area of the ground our output suffers. Four of our starting six forwards had less than ten disposals. Let’s give them the benefit of the doubt, but it would indicate that they aren’t in great form to start the year and that the connection between kids and forwards needs to improve. The latter point obviously not assisted by our slow ball movement today which allowed them to set up behind the ball.

Given our issues up forward I’d be loath to toy with the back six. Moore, Howe, Roughead, Noble, Maynard and Crisp. Lock it in regardless of any suggestions of giving Crisp midfield time.

On the forwards, given the make up of our front six we can’t be moving the ball as slowly as we did today. We need bounce from the back half and daring use through the middle. Cox gets nudged off the ball too easily and I’d happily back Cameron to at least deliver the same as he does but tend to think Cox will be given first crack.

Finally to the mids, I’d play De Goey there for centre bounces and keep him largely forward the rest of the time. We lose too much with him not being forward of the ball, not to mention it creates opposition panic. Pendles and Adams (assuming fit) are obvious for round one and, while not sold, Wills can maintain his place against a strong-bodied midfield brigade of the Dogs. He somehow needs to work on covering the ground better and kicking the thing. Elliott should play forward/mid for the same reasons as JDG.

Agree with that, but if were going to use JDG a lot through the midfield, we might need to get used to 73% game time, rather than suggesting its a low number.

 

[sr36]

For starters just because Sides has played 234 games and he's just turned 29, 30 years is not the cliff anymore. Did Pav or the Harveys fall off that cliff after 30? No, Did Tony Shaw? No.

Sidey is at his peak. He'll never be as effective again as 2018, but thats because he wasn't tagged that often in 2018. It was a breakout year where he rose suddenly in terms of impact. He was so good in 2018 that from now on hes going to regularly cop a tag when he starts to have an impact.

 

[Kappa]

HS running with story on Adams, will he play round 1? Didn't see all of today's game, is he injured? Or could he be suspended?

Only 12 days until round 1, he's no chance if there's a small tear in there.

 

[regpies]

Good to know our injury curse has continued in 2020, good times.

I don’t understand the slow chipping game style. All it does is give the opposition more time to get numbers back and set up defensively. Our best football in 2018 and last year was when we tried to move the ball quick.

 

[regpies]

De Goey should be Mid 1st and Forward 2nd

Yes, he SHOULD be midfield 1st, but he has never gotten fit enough because of injuries and probably laziness. That’s why he was put in the forward line to work up his fitness. Then we discovered he’s a gun at FF.

 

[regpies]

Its an odd one, in 2018 we lost most of our talls and had no choice but to go fast. Since then we have seemed to want to slow it down all the time, go with short kicks etc.

Don't get it to be honest. Did not like what I saw today. That is not the game plan to dismantle Richmond, they would destroy that short kicking game.

It worked in rd2 against Richmond last year, it’s the worst thing that’s ever happened to us.

Since then Bucks has been obsessed with continuing the slow, short chipping game plan which failed to work in so many game last year. After today it’s clear we intend to continue it this year, not good.

 

[left at home]

I'm not convinced that you do have to have more than one game plan. The best teams of the last 15 years - Geelong, Hawthorn, Saints, Us, and Richmond all played a very predictable style with very minor tweaks. I think teams tend to lack cohesion and underachieve when they significantly chop and change their style to suit their opponent.

I agree to some point, l do think you need plan b when your main plan have proved not to be working on match day.
True you need to be predictable to one and another, and certainly playing one way helps.but in the end good teams work you out as you can be to predictable

 

[cliffdrabble]

These games are meaningless. Best ignored.

Our real issues when the season starts will be the same as last year. Lack of KPF who can take a pack mark and injuries.
Losing Treloar and now possibly Adams, and with Stephenson unlikely to be anywhere near 100% is not a great preparation for the first 4 weeks. WB, then Richmond followed by Hawthorn, who we find impossible to beat and then BL in Brisbane is a horror draw to start 2020.

 

[TKiL]

Meaningless result - would have been people from Moe in the crowd - definitely putting our well behaved boys off - JDG might have scared a couple of them but that's about it

 

[loki04]

Some of us noticed it, but as sco said, and l agree with him, one it’s a practice match, and you have to have more than one game plan.
And when half the team are not really committed, that’s the type of game you will get
If we are playing like this a third of the way through the season, then we should be concerned. These games are for to trial stuff not for points

That type of game plan should only be used to arrest momentum for small stints in games or to suck the life out of end of quarters when the team fatigues.

If this was the first time seeing us do it I would agree with you and Sco but it's like you both are oblivious to style we implemented for much of last year and the amount of times teams came back in the game because of it even losing a few after large starts. GF in 18 another example of taking the foot off and being less attacking playing safe (players self admission).

It's the Ross Lyon Paul Roos school type of pinch a flag and be competitive enough to make the finals. Roos pinched one but Ross never could. Because really they weren't a dominant team but a stifling game plan that keeps a team in it.


Premier multi flag sides like Rich Geelong Brisbane Hawks all had attacking systems along with very good defensive structures.
Could add essendon of 00 in that too and our 10/11 team.

Anyway as I said I'm concerned about our flag chances if we look to bed this system down further, but still think we will be a top 4 or 6 team.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

These games are meaningless. Best ignored.

Our real issues when the season starts will be the same as last year. Lack of KPF who can take a pack mark and injuries.
Losing Treloar and now possibly Adams, and with Stephenson unlikely to be anywhere near 100% is not a great preparation for the first 4 weeks. WB, then Richmond followed by Hawthorn, who we find impossible to beat and then BL in Brisbane is a horror draw to start 2020.

I think the results are meaningless but trying players in different positions, testing game plans and giving players short of a gallop some game time is definitely not

For instance:
Elliott played about 3 quarters in the midfield
Grundy spent time in Defence
Cox rucked for almost all of the last quarter
There were a few other more subtle changes too

Exactly what the pre-season is designed for

 

[pablo disco bar]

Adams will be out for 6 to 8 weeks yeah ?

 

[Albert Parker]

I'm not too worried about the outcome today given the way we applied certain personnel. Those noting that the Saints were at full strength should recognise that possibly their two best players Gresham and Ross (with Brad Hill in that mix now) were rested for the day.

 

[Billys Back]

It seemed to me that team is/was the intended team to play R1.

is Shaz injured? If not, I’m totally surprised he didn’t manage to get a look in on a game.

And I love the effort Wills put in, however, he shouldn’t be in this team. He hits the ground way too much. At least Sier stays on his feet when being tackled and get off a clean possession.

 

[NonPhixion]

It seemed to me that team is/was the intended team to play R1.

is Shaz injured? If not, I’m totally surprised he didn’t manage to get a look in on a game.

And I love the effort Wills put in, however, he shouldn’t be in this team. He hits the ground way too much. At least Sier stays on his feet when being tackled and get off a clean possession.

Wills’ defensive efforts are second to none, he gives a good balance to our midfield imo, Sier is more of an extractor type

 

[Gambit78]

Interesting take on Wills in here. It's as if he's keeping a seat warm for someone else.

But I would suggest we have a look at his role within what appears to be two distinct game plans we've trialled.

Sidebottom's second goal, after a surging handball chain from the centre bounce appears to be a game style we can execute quite well. It's a style that's appeared in patches this pre-season and is handball-centric. The other is the maligned keepings-off, kicking game everyone is concerned about.

Wills isn't the finisher in either style, he's the disruptor that causes an opposition turnover. His role is only effective if our skilled players take advantage of his work. In other words, what I want to see is whether his 8 to 10 tackles a game lead directly to 4, 6, 8+ scoring opportunities. If we're marking Wills like we mark Sidebottom or De Goey, then we've missed the point. In both games, as a disruptor, Wills did a pretty good job and is best suited to that role. I think he's one of the safest in our starting 22. But players like WHE, Phillips, Thomas, Daicos etc they need to start cashing in. That's where our attention should be...

 

[DerekZoolander]

Wills tries hard but he just isn't good enough, his ball use is terrible and slow

Yep, need Sier back asap.