Mega Thread Matt Rendell situation thread #2

[Southerntakeover]

Hardly, given that players of all races have to go through the exact same process.

People of all races go through football programs at top private schools id assume.

 

[jenny61_99]

How does that address culture shock and the reality of playing within a cut throat environment?

Look i don't have the answers. Clearly nobody does otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. I would like to hear what indigenous Players like Andy McLeod have to say about the issues and problems he faced. Or perhaps really have an in depth chat with the likes of liam jurrah. They are the only ones that can give us a true understanding. The biggest mistake we make is making assumptions.

 

[macca23]

Vader, you are posting nothing but inflammatory horse shit IMO.

Rendell's suggestion was made in good faith IMO. The idea was to help young people who come from a totally different cultural structure to adapt to the culture that surrounds city life and AFL football to maximize their chances of success.

That is NOT belittling them, forcing them, or suggesting that the culture of the areas from which they come from are inferior. It is recognizing that it's different.

The culture to which they have to adapt at AFL clubs will never change. City life will be what it is and the demands at an AFL club huge.

Whether you agree with what Rendell was suggesting is irrelevant. His motives were good. Currently there has been a large failure rate with aboriginals drafted from remote areas, because they find it so hard to adapt to the huge demands of an AFL club and the huge differences in culture. His suggestion - for those who want to on a voluntary basis - is to spread the period over some years before they are drafted so they are not overwhelmed by a massive change in life and culture in one foul swoop.

He did not make his suggestion in a patronizing manner. He saw it as a contribution to overcoming the current high failure rate.

One final thing that really gets me angry.

I can say that Italians come from a different cultural background, as do Lebanese, as do Greeks etc etc, and nobody thinks I am being racist or trying to put them down.

But if I dared to say anything recognizing that aboriginals have a different cultural background, then the racist flag is being waved right, left and centre by certain people.

And that's what I think has happened to Rendell on this occasion.

 

[Truck Rutten]

I don't have any easy solutions. This is an incredibly difficult and sensitive area, with the borders between being politically correct, racist and just plain pragmatic being blurred to the point where they are almost indistinct.

The final solution will probably involve changing the way the clubs approach the players, rather than trying to change the players themselves. Acceptance of diversity, although difficult to manage, is probably going to be the key to finding a solution.

Probably not the best turn of phrase to use when discussing racial issues.

 

[weneverland]

The bottom line is Rendell would have been sacked by Demetriou if Triggy didnt act which Triggy knew.
Now if Triggy went against Demetriou, Demetriou would have found a way to get rid of Triggy as well long term.

I dont want to be harsh on Triggy, beacause they are good people down at the crows.

But he was in a lose-lose situation.

What would you have done?

I don't think so. Matt is an employee of the AFC, not the AFL. All AD can do is put pressure on Triggy, (which I suspect he did), and Triggy would have to fold (which I suspect he did).

 

[King Elvis]

Academies within their communities?

...

How many around Australia?

What facilities will they use?

Who will staff them?

Who will they play against?

Where will they do their schooling?


That idea isn't realistic Jenn, nowhere near it.

 

[ManInTheArena]

What do you suggest to combat the high attrition rate in aboriginal footballers?

Is everyone so completely stupid that they think there needs to be a solution? If a person doesn't want to play AFL and wants to go home, let them. Who is fit to judge whether playing AFL is the best thing for them? Nathan Ablett didn't seem to think it was the best thing for him. We are so obsessed with 22 people chasing a blown up pig skin and kicking it through two sticks that we are trying to fix an issue that doesn't exist! The AFL should stop thinking they are gods gift to EVERYTHING and leave people the f*** alone if they don't have any interest in playing the sport at that level. If some aboriginal kids are from an unstructured environment and can't handle the system, so be it, why try to make them structured so they can play a f***ing game and get a so called "better life". It's not a better life if they don't f***ing like it, is it?

 

[King Elvis]

The final solution will probably involve changing the way the clubs approach the players, rather than trying to change the players themselves. Acceptance of diversity, although difficult to manage, is probably going to be the key to finding a solution.

Like Rendell with Milera?

Also - lulz at 'final solution.'

 

[Dandy_GO]

The final solution will probably involve changing the way the clubs approach the players, rather than trying to change the players themselves.

Some interesting terminology there, Vader

But yes, I agree on that point, and I disagree with Rendell's plan. What I do believe, however, is that he should be able to at least pitch his solution without being branded a racist. I'm a strong believer in the importance of political correctness, but there are instances, such as this one, where over observance of it can be a hindrance to achieving the best result. I believe the majority of the people involved have the best interests of young footballers at heart. I may be oversimplifying things here, but surely it would be better to be working together? I'm not sure what Misfud & co have achieved here that will actually positively help the situation. They've simply alienated someone who, I think we can all agree, had a genuine desire to help. I'm sure Rendell's passionate nature would have presented its challenges to them, but did they really have to approach it like this.

edit: ^^^ haha wasn't the only one to pick up on that.

 

[CrowCro]

Re: The Yes man that is Steven Trigg

I'm no Steven Trigg fan at all.

IMO he over analyses and over emphasises every issue he deals with.
His double speak and gobblely gook is straight out of the Neil Craig book on 'processes, structures and systems' with a few "'it's a good point you make" "we're doing our darnedest" and "let me assure you" thrown in.

His muddling approach to Adelaide oval was half baked and his dealings with the AFL in front of the media is full of clichés and apologies.
His standard "Behind closed doors we are working hard to get the best outcome for the Adelaide football club" reeks of subservient diplomacy.
How about from time to time calling a spade a spade and not hiding behind 'brand Adelaide.'

His handling of the Bernie Vince issue was I feel insipid and he should have actually backed his player and demonstrated some loyalty as Vince did nothing wrong.
It was the opportune time to back his player and would have galvanised the team behind it's CEO.
This argument of the 'sum of all ills' was pathetic and pandering to interests that quite honesty didn't need to be pandered to.
When will the club back a player if not with something like that non issue.

Having said all that Trigg has my full support in the way he has handle this latest incident.
The club had to come out strongly and act swiftly as not only is the subject matter divisive and repulsive it will in this case tarnish brand "Adelaide."

Rendell had to go because clearly this is not a view held by the Adelaide football club now or in it's past history.

I have to cut and paste this post as the thread was closed.
I posted this first comment on the 17/3/12 as I believed the club had done the right thing in dealing with a subject that really has no excuse.

The club had to act swiftly at the time because this was an incident that had the potential to damage Adelaide's standing within the AFL and the broader community.

The comment in black and white is damning and still abhorrent and if the club thought that they couldn't employee someone who held those beliefs then fair enough.

What I naively or prematurely never considered was that Adelaide had not allowed Rendell right of reply or due consideration in this matter.

Surely with a subject manner this sensitive Rendell was allowed to explain himself.
Adelaide obviously took the line nothing you say can excuse you from this statement so you have to go.
The one problem with this attitude though is that a man's history follows him everywhere. When you have 35 years in the AFL a pattern of behaviour to an issue can be gleamed.
It will be scrutinised and examined with a fine tooth comb in latter days and the club should have been savvy enough to expect that.
A man's career and reputation was on the line here and he should have been accorded a fair hearing. The club has to be certain that the charge was clear cut and no ambiguity existed.

The real strength of Steven Trigg's leadership is how he handles this predicament from now on.
The easy option will be to state "The matter is now closed ,Mathew Rendell's resignation has been accepted, no further statement will be made from the club."
If they go down this line then everything I think and have said about Trigg holds true.
Stop hiding behind the brand and be honest and open and give Rendell some credit.
There are those that will always agree with Rendell's resignation and the reasons behind it but at least accord the man some semblance of loyalty and respect and allow him to leave the club with some acknowledgement of his fine work.
I can't see Rendell coming back but how the club preforms in the next 24 hours will reflect enormously on the leadership values of the club.

Grat post- send this to 5AA and AFC

 

[weneverland]

he probably wasnt that bothered about having to resign.

This is an extreme view I know, but right at the start of this I wondered whether he might be someone who'd had enough and couldnt resign so got himself fired instead, people do that you know.....

Nice theory but...
People in football resign all the time whether on contracts or not.
Secondly, he did resign and was not fired.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I don't have time to reply to all of it, but this one is not correct:

Rioli was sent to Melbourne by his family. By definition that's not racist.

For a white person to demand the same thing of an aboriginal from a remote community would be very much racist in concept.

No-one is "demanding" anything. They're just offering them a scholarship (like any school supposedly can) and the family have the option to take up their offer and send them to that school IF THEY WANT TO. Just as Cyril's family did. Rendell is just suggesting that more get the opportunity that Cyril got. If that is a bad thing, which "racism" supposedly is (unless he's been sacked because racism is a good thing and Adelaide don't like anyone doing good things) then I don't see how it is.

 

[TheTonic]

I'm doing a fantastic job of butchering the english language in trying to make my point. Have a read of what Jenny wrote and see if you can understand why the whole academy concept could be seen to be fundamentally racist at heart:

People might understand that it is offensive... but it's a bit of a stretch to consider it fundamentally racist. You could argue it is ignorant of a patch of Australian history.

But ultimately... it's one man's offering of a solution to something he sees as a problem through his own recruitment officer goggles. Despite all this we have indigenous advocates in official roles at the same time proposing separate drafts, academy's and all sorts of other special treatments...

People can choose not to accept his proposal and give reasons why but fundamentally the suggestion came from a position of concern from a person who has the best insight into the struggles of certain demographics anywhere in the country. His whole professional existence relies on assessing people on every facet of their life.... it is completely understandable how someone in his position's viewpoint might be skewed.

In the whole debate regarding prejudice we often talk about tolerance of other people, about cultural differences... in this instance a little understanding of the culture of recruitment professionals wouldn't go astray... especially in such an elite performance industry.

We are all so lucky that Matt Rendell has tolerated this as well as he has. I wouldn't be so forgiving.

I cannot wait to hear these AFL officials side of the story to be completely fair. In the absence of their side of the story... this is a complete scandal.

 

[Dolemite]

Look i don't have the answers. Clearly nobody does otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. I would like to hear what indigenous Players like Andy McLeod have to say about the issues and problems he faced. Or perhaps really have an in depth chat with the likes of liam jurrah. They are the only ones that can give us a true understanding. The biggest mistake we make is making assumptions.[/QUOT

Definitely. Getting the perspectives is essential. Who knows, maybe Rioli said it was a fantastic experience to help him make the transition to AFL football and recommended the pathway for other indigenous footballers.

 

[97-98]

It's not about choice. It's about the fundamental thought processes underlying the whole concept. Sheesh.. how many times do I have to repeat myself before people remove their blinkers and start looking more than 1mm deep into the issue?

Hey the AFL and Mifsud must be racists too.
This is the scholarship program that they have endorsed.
Am I missing something, or is it the same as what Rendell is proposing?
http://www.sportingpulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=1-5545-0-0-0&sID=76376&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=16833510

 

[afc1991]

The twitter comments give a bit of weight to what caro said.

I think Ali Fahour was the other offical and took exception. The fallout is to keep the peace with the Fahours and the Australia Post sponsorship.

Misfud either reflected on the comments after the event and did indeed find them ofensive, or he is just keeping his mouth shut, as any defence of rendell undermines his position, or puts Ali off side.

 

[Hank93]

Did anyone see the Rendall coverage on AFL 360 tonight? Robbo was alluding that there a lot more "offensive" comments that haven't been made public yet. Considering he was defending Rendall yesterday, this could support the AFC's decision on this matter.

This follows what Trigg said that it wasn't just the White parent line that has been considered offensive Fahour and Misfud.

Might change our thoughts on the matter based on what is said in the Herald Sun tomorrow.

 

[jenny61_99]

Vader, you are posting nothing but inflammatory horse shit IMO.

Rendell's suggestion was made in good faith IMO. The idea was to help young people who come from a totally different cultural structure to adapt to the culture that surrounds city life and AFL football to maximize their chances of success.

Of course it was made in good faith. So were the suggestions of the generation before us who believed what they did was in good faith. You have to understand Macca, that this is a VERY sensitive issue for indigenous people. For those of you who don't get this, I can only presume you haven't had much to do with indigenous communities or issues. There is no way rendell was intending to be racist, but there is also no doubt that his suggestions would not be well received by most indigenous people - particularly those that are actively working in the area. His intentions to help aboriginal boys adapt into the AFL culture better were certainly well meaning but were perhaps short on the thought process given what's happened in the past.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Pretty sure you shouldn't be sacked for that, Jenny.

Definitely. Getting the perspectives is essential. Who knows, maybe Rioli said it was a fantastic experience to help him make the transition to AFL football and recommended the pathway for other indigenous footballers.

They showed the Rioli interview last night and he spoke of how much he wanted to go home in the early days (of school in Melbourne, from the age of 14) but he said his mother told him to stay there, as she thought it was what was best for him, so he did and last night he said that he was very grateful that she did insist that he stay, as it has worked out so well for him.
This is obviously why Rendell thinks that more from those communities getting that same opportunity Cyril did could be a really GOOD thing and where the idea apparently came from. If that's a bad thing, then I'm not sitting here.

On the flip side, this is what Ross Tungatulum said, of his experience of coming to St Kilda at 18:

"I know what is required now. In 2009 it took me a while to train how I needed to, but I have grown up a bit since," he said.

"Being away from family is tough. Coming from our community to a city like Melbourne, people just don't understand the difference.

"Up here there is nobody telling me what to do, where to be at different times, what to eat ... just completely different lifestyles.

What Rendell is suggesting is that if the Ross Tangatulums had the opportunity to get into the big city a few years earlier, they would have more chance of being acclimatised to living in this environment by the time they're old enough to be picked by an AFL club and they would be less likely to go home, or be de-listed, as is happening a fair bit at the moment.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/mor...ack-in-afl-frame/story-e6frf9jf-1226302042938

 

[Dolemite]

Did anyone see the Rendall coverage on AFL 360 tonight? Robbo was alluding that there a lot more "offensive" comments that haven't been made public yet. Considering he was defending Rendall yesterday, this could support the AFC's decision on this matter.

This follows what Trigg said that it wasn't just the White parent line that has been considered offensive Fahour and Misfud.

Might change our thoughts on the matter based on what is said in the Herald Sun tomorrow.

Is this why there was a six week break before the news came out? So they can take a few more comments that Rendell said and twist them into something offensive, check with legal to cover there ass, and then try to put more nails in his coffin.

 

[weneverland]

Flawed analogy, yes, but the fundamental thought process behind it is very, very similar.

The thought process behind the (alleged) Stolen Generations is that the aboriginal kids needed to be taken away from their parents and cared for by white people, in order become valued members of society.

The though process behind Rendell's academy is that the aboriginal kids need to be taken away from their parents and cared for by white people in order to be able to contribute to the AFL.

Agreed, the Stolen Generations were (allegedly) taken without permission, while attendees at Rendell's academies would not be. But the fundamental thinking behind their entire existence is the issue here, not permission or the lack of it.

I think you misunderstand the concept.

Firstly, I am not sure he said anything about taking these kids away from their parents. Although having parents come along would be more difficult logistically. I will concede that he is talking about a change in environment.

Secondly, I see what Matt proposed as being more akin to affirmative action where perceived disadvantaged groups within the community are given extra training, skills etc that bring them up to a same level where the can compete fairly with the wider community. This is all politically correct and has occurred in many industries. The big difference, but not the only one between this and the stolen generation is that one is voluntary and the other was forced.

 

[macca23]

Of course it was made in good faith. So were the suggestions of the generation before us who believed what they did was in good faith. You have to understand Macca, that this is a VERY sensitive issue for indigenous people. For those of you who don't get this, I can only presume you haven't had much to do with indigenous communities or issues. There is no way rendell was intending to be racist, but there is also no doubt that his suggestions would not be well received by most indigenous people - particularly those that are actively working in the area. His intentions to help aboriginal boys adapt into the AFL culture better were certainly well meaning but were perhaps short on the thought process given what's happened in the past.

Not correct, Jenny, but that's irrelevant to the Rendell situation.

Even you have acknowledged that Rendell was not intending to be racist. If Mifsud and co saw something racist in his comments, then they should have thrashed that out with Rendell at the time, not assassinate him 6 weeks later.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Hope you don't mind me giving my two cents worth !
About 3 years ago I was involved in the commencement of a football acedemy which sees around 100 players brought together once a month from Feb-November which includes testing as per AFL draft combine, some higher level coaching and life skill education.
This occurs within the participants communities and they are not required to travel to a major city , is free of charge and does also take in some interleague training, players are aged 12-17 and are selected solely based upon footy talent , previous personal issues are in no way considered for a means of exclusion.
The results have been quite interesting with , possibly the most notable changes, are the confidence in players to have a go at elite ( state TAC squads) and the willingness for young children to express their personal day to day struggles to go on.
The transformation is some of the kids has been nothing but amazing with some whom communities deemed no hopers , now leaders.
All equipment has been purchased through government or state grants, sponsorship with no financial assistant from the AFL.
This program was brought to the AFL's attention and within months another program was formed, which sees a number of ex players profitiering significantly from testing ( draft combine like ) and is strongly promoted by the AFL, the players tested are not screened and on occassions kids who are the bottom end of the ability scale are paying to attend.
My experiences would suggest that not only is Matt Rendall well and truly on the money, with using acedemy's within indigenous communtities to assist with the possible transition into AFL, but there is little chance the AFL will in any way support this, as the footy industry is becoming more and more a closed shop, with " Jobs for the Boys " a common used phrase .

 

[Fergus]

Grat post- send this to 5AA and AFC

Don't bother sending to 5AA or AFC - send it to the sponsors. The reality is Trigg was worried about losing the sponsors money if he didn't act so instead of fighting for his man he took the weak option. Of course, having Andy D breathing down his neck doesn't help but don't fool yourself that this wasn't commercially driven as much as anything.

 

[FAITH]

The more i hear about this issue the more i realise that Trigg is just Demetrious puppet.
I almost feel sorry for Triggy now.

did anyone else find it interesting that rendell didnt want to continue as a recruiting manager?
He signed the 3yr contract but only really because he wanted to complete this years super draft.