Opinion Matthew Nicks: Adelaide's Coach (Part 3) - The Biggest Loser

[AFC979810]

How can there be no other logical assertion. All 3 wanted to come home, from there it’s choice between only 2 clubs. The difference between coaches would have ranked very low compared to the other factors like contract. None of these players are comparing Ncks against 17 other coaches, they’d already chosen Adelaide and then picked the best fit from there.

I massively disagree. The coach sets the culture and the vision of the football team which would play a big factor in players coming to a club.

It’s really not though, unless you can’t do maths. 15/22 is not materially different to 3/4. If we go next year without an acquisition, recent history drops behind the early years.

Ha ha ha. Its not that dissimilar if we take out 7 years because of Neil Craig because it doesn't hurt your argument. And add in a bunch of older players that never had the chance to play AFL football in SA until the Crows came into the League - Like McGuinnes and Lindner and Hall.

 

[AFC979810]

Matthew Clarke, Jason McCartney.

Next you are going to bring up Ronnie as an example.

Ha ha ha ha... and I thought Bruce Lindner was a reach. Why not use Danny Hughes as well!

 

[AFC979810]

Barry Standfield

He played 3 games the year he was traded for picks 32 and 47 and played 13 games for us.

C'mon old man. Lets keep it to quality - entrenched best 22 players.

For reference - in my argument - I haven't used ANB in my argument. He makes it 4/4.

He is a 170+ game premiership player that was 6th in a B&F for a premiership team.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

But thats my point. Jenny is arguing that all these players are coming to play for Nicks. Yet they all have something in common. Wanting to come back home or very close to home. Thats not coming to play for a coach. Lukosius didnt want to come back to SA, he wanted to stay. Yet he chose Port. Same with every other player who turned us down to stay at their own clubs, many of them SA players. Nicks isnt appealing. Lukosius was the test and it failed along with every other player we didnt get this year.

Bottom line, if we cant attract players without an agenda such as a victorian star etc then our sales pitch is not a good sales pitch. Jenny doesnt understand this.

Do you actually think that we are the only club who approaches players, and gets rejected? Every single club would ask the question to multiple players every season and throw offers out there. I reckon Tex said multiple clubs even chased him with Collingwood pushing the hardest. Collingwood got rejected.

You act like being unable to attract an interstate star is a Nicks problem, it's been a problem for 30 years...

Can't remember any player who has stated they want to play for a certain club due to wanting to play for the coach.

 

[1970crow]

I massively disagree. The coach sets the culture and the vision of the football team which would play a big factor in players coming to a club.



Ha ha ha. Its not that dissimilar if we take out 7 years because of Neil Craig because it doesn't hurt your argument. And add in a bunch of older players that never had the chance to play AFL football in SA until the Crows came into the League - Like McGuinnes and Lindner and Hall.

But they've got no experience with the culture of the football team, all they can see is performance outcome. And all coaches are selling the same vision, "ultimately, we will win a flag and you'll be a par of it".

With the tracing, it was well known that Neil Craig was averse to trading in ready made players. Even Thommo hadn't cracked a season averaging 20/game. And you removed those players and they've been replaced with others that fit your criteria. You've gotten a little antsy, which you tend to do when you've been proven wrong. The numbers just don't support what you're trying to say.

 

[1970crow]

Next you are going to bring up Ronnie as an example.

Ha ha ha ha... and I thought Bruce Lindner was a reach. Why not use Danny Hughes as well!

You said best 22 player. I told you it depends how you define them, but he was definitely best 22 at the Pies when we traded him in and we used 9 in the deal. Give up, I can see you're starting to get emotional, you're done.

 

[AFC979810]

But they've got no experience with the culture of the football team, all they can see is performance outcome. And all coaches are selling the same vision, "ultimately, we will win a flag and you'll be a par of it".

So the coach & culture has zero impact on players. Why do coaches meet with potential recruits? Why do players meet with future coaches? Whats the point?

With the tracing, it was well known that Neil Craig was averse to trading in ready made players. Even Thommo hadn't cracked a season averaging 20/game. And you removed those players and they've been replaced with others that fit your criteria. You've gotten a little antsy, which you tend to do when you've been proven wrong. The numbers just don't support what you're trying to say.

Well they do. They just dont when you conveniently decide to omit 1/3 of our history because it doesn't suit your narrative.

It just baffles the mind how you can't give Nicks any credit when he is a part of poaching Dawson, Rankine, Cumming and ANB.

 

[1970crow]

He played 3 games the year he was traded for picks 32 and 47 and never played a game for us. He was cooked.

C'mon old man. Lets keep it to quality - entrenched best 22 players.

For reference - in my argument - I haven't used ANB in my argument. He makes it 4/4.

He is a 170+ game premiership player that was 6th in a B&F for a premiership team.

He did his Achilles early in that year, was an absolute walk up best 22 player when we traded for him.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

Why its meaningful? Its meaningful because in our 33 year history we have only attracted 8 best 22 players from other clubs (I quoted 7 earlier but forgot Gibbs). 3 out of the 8 have come in the past 3 years. Thats very meaningful.

Dawson ended up 2nd in our 2022 B&F and won the B&F in his 2nd year as Captain. Rankine came 4th in his first year at the club. How is the addition of these two players anything but meaningful?

How can it not be meaningful that we have stolen 3 players from other clubs in a 3 year period when in the first 30 years as a club we only poached 5 (1 every 6 years). Its a stark difference.

You tried to say its not very meaningful because we had additional resources because we have been down so long. Thats a bullshit argument. Lack of resources is never an issue with recruiting players - look at all the top teams that are able to recruit stars.

The recruitment of Dawson, Rankine and Cumming is one of the only positives our club has had over the past 7 years.

Would be interesting to see comparisons of other clubs and who they have attracted, not that I have time to do that.

Not a lot of genuine best 22 players switch clubs each season. I'd guess maybe 20 in the last 3 years, and a few of those weren't poached, they were pushed.

Dawson and Rankine would be some of the best players to move clubs in the last 10 years. We are well ahead of the average while Nicks has been at the club.

 

[Milo Cyrus]

I reckon Pepsi Nuts could coach the All Australian team to at least tenth spot and maybe scrape a finals spot.
If they didn't have any injuries.

 

[1970crow]

So the coach & culture has zero impact on players. Why do coaches meet with potential recruits? Why do players meet with future coaches? Whats the point?



Well they do. They just dont when you conveniently decide to omit 1/3 of our history because it doesn't suit your narrative.

It just baffles the mind how you can't give Nicks any credit when he is a part of poaching Dawson, Rankine, Cumming and ANB.

How can they possibly know the culture, it's not hard to understand. And the coach doesn't ordinarily meet them alone, there's always two and sometimes it's a group. They're just selling the vision and the club sends who they think sells it best. But it's just part of the show, like draftees saying they just want to be picked up or how every current employee is great or was great, made a huge contribution but we're sacking them anyway. The coach would be a neutral aspect in. 90% of events. Especially in our little 2 team torn where they first choose the location and then the club.

 

[FR0GGY]

Would be interesting to see comparisons of other clubs and who they have attracted, not that I have time to do that.

Not a lot of genuine best 22 players switch clubs each season. I'd guess maybe 20 in the last 3 years, and a few of those weren't poached, they were pushed.

Dawson and Rankine would be some of the best players to move clubs in the last 10 years. We are well ahead of the average while Nicks has been at the club.

Brisbane around the time they trended up? (Neale, Daniher etc)
Probably no coincidence players head around the time a team looks to be trending up and their salary cap is low.
We should have plenty of money to be attracting players in over the last few years.

 

[AFC979810]

You said best 22 player. I told you it depends how you define them, but he was definitely best 22 at the Pies when we traded him in and we used 9 in the deal. Give up, I can see you're starting to get emotional, you're done.

Ha ha ha...And Bruce Linder was a best 22 player?

Week 1 - gets 1 touch - dropped.
Week 8 back in for 1 game - 10 touches dropped.
Plays 3 more games and after a 10 touch game gets - dropped.
Plays one more game - dropped.

McArtney I will give ya since he had one season for the Pies where he played more than 10 games. So here is the final list (IMO).

He did his Achilles early in that year, was an absolute walk up best 22 player when we traded for him.

Trading for a player who did his Achilles and never played a game for us is a best 22 player?

 

[AFC979810]

Brisbane around the time they trended up? (Neale, Daniher etc)

Daniher came after the Lions finished 2nd.

Probably no coincidence players head around the time a team looks to be trending up and their salary cap is low.
We should have plenty of money to be attracting players in over the last few years.

Geelong every year. Collingwood always attract really quality players.

 

[AFC979810]

How can they possibly know the culture, it's not hard to understand. And the coach doesn't ordinarily meet them alone, there's always two and sometimes it's a group. They're just selling the vision and the club sends who they think sells it best. But it's just part of the show, like draftees saying they just want to be picked up or how every current employee is great or was great, made a huge contribution but we're sacking them anyway. The coach would be a neutral aspect in. 90% of events. Especially in our little 2 team torn where they first choose the location and then the club.

Geez! Culture doesn't matter because the player couldn't possibly know the culture! Genius from you.

You don't think players would talk to other players about the culture. What the day to day is like? What they think of the club and where it is headed? You don't think Cumming would be chatting to Nicks about where he gets to play and what his role in the team is before signing a multi year .

Remember when the crows were trying to get rumored Crows fan and best mate of Brodie Smith to the club?

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/afl/dwayne-russell-jared-polec-summed-up-port-adelaides-culture-in-three-words-its-a-family/news-story/29fe2a5c1e700955d862ddf268c1d26b

Yeah but culture and the coach doesn't matter at all.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Would be interesting to see comparisons of other clubs and who they have attracted, not that I have time to do that.

Not a lot of genuine best 22 players switch clubs each season. I'd guess maybe 20 in the last 3 years, and a few of those weren't poached, they were pushed.

Dawson and Rankine would be some of the best players to move clubs in the last 10 years. We are well ahead of the average while Nicks has been at the club.

It's been a bug-bear talking point for the last 15 years ....our inability to attract players

Low and behold, the last 3 years the table has turned & we've got quality in ....but also have retained players, where a few years ago everyone was afraid player A,B,C would go home ....now no-one here is chatting about go-home players

Yet, such is the animosity on the board towards Nicks, you don't dare weaken your position by admitting some of the benefits he's brought the Club

Nicks has got his mulligan year, for all the valid reasons outlined endlessly ......he has the list, the depth, the inexperienced players now have had another year of development in them .....2025 has to be his year

 

[AFC979810]

It's been a bug-bear talking point for the last 15 years ....our inability to attract players

Low and behold, the last 3 years the table has turned & we've got quality in ....but also have retained players, where a few years ago everyone was afraid player A,B,C would go home ....now no-one here is chatting about go-home players

Yet, such is the animosity on the board towards Nicks, you don't dare weaken your position by admitting some of the benefits he's brought the Club

Nicks has got his mulligan year, for all the valid reasons outlined endlessly ......he has the list, the depth, the inexperienced players now have had another year of development in them .....2025 has to be his year

Nicks - good for culture and players acquisitions.

Nicks - dumb as a rock when it comes to selection, gameplay and in game tactical moves.

Thats what the past 5 years have shown us.

 

[FR0GGY]

Daniher came after the Lions finished 2nd.



Geelong every year. Collingwood always attract really quality players.

Yeah ok Joe came a year or two later, pretty sure they had other players nominate them around the time they turned it around.
They went from player exodus to having players nominate them.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Nicks - good for culture and players acquisitions.

Nicks - dumb as a rock when it comes to selection, gameplay and in game tactical moves.

Thats what the past 5 years have shown us.

You know I disagree here .....he has problems with starts, has to come from behind too often ....we lose CBA's continuously

However, if you benchmark other Clubs, there's always calls supporters claim the Coach got it wrong .....it's a part of footy
What did you think of Voss subbing Kennedy just after Qtr time in CARL final ? .....should Kennedy have been selected if you going to take him straight out of the game

I just don't see any of the calls people have gone on about with Nicks, rivalling worse calls by other Coaches this year

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Yeah ok Joe came a year or two later, pretty sure they had other players nominate them around the time they turned it around.
They went from player exodus to having players nominate them.

What's your point though ?

 

[FR0GGY]

What's your point though ?

It was clear in my first post I thought,

Brisbane around the time they trended up? (Neale, Daniher etc)
Probably no coincidence players head around the time a team looks to be trending up and their salary cap is low.
We should have plenty of money to be attracting players in over the last few years.

when a team is average for awhile they have salary cap space to attract as well as a team looking like it’s on the up.

 

[FR0GGY]

You know I disagree here .....he has problems with starts, has to come from behind too often ....we lose CBA's continuously

However, if you benchmark other Clubs, there's always calls supporters claim the Coach got it wrong .....it's a part of footy
What did you think of Voss subbing Kennedy just after Qtr time in CARL final ? .....should Kennedy have been selected if you going to take him straight out of the game

I just don't see any of the calls people have gone on about with Nicks, rivalling worse calls by other Coaches this year

Not sure many here have been too complimentary of Voss.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

It was clear in my first post I thought, when a team is average for awhile they have salary cap space to attract as well as a team looking like it’s on the up.

NORTH have had plenty of cap space ....they've thrown humungus offers at players to join them, to no avail ....even after all the draft concessions & Clarko joining, they're still not a desired location

PLayers know how the Club culture is ....players talk to each other continuously

The Coach and Culture are critical to player decisions to stay, go, and attracting players .....there are a couple of players currently, not nominating West Coast until they know who will be coaching in 2025

 

[FR0GGY]

NORTH have had plenty of cap space ....they've thrown humungus offers at players to join them, to no avail ....even after all the draft concessions & Clarko joining, they're still not a desired location

PLayers know how the Club culture is ....players talk to each other continuously

The Coach and Culture are critical to player decisions to stay, go, and attracting players .....there are a couple of players currently, not nominating West Coast until they know who will be coaching in 2025

You missed the part where I said a team that looks like it’s on the up.
North just reinforces the point that players probably don’t look at the coach as much as being portrayed.
It’s cash, position in the team and location all before the coach I’d suggest
West coast don’t look like they are on the up yet, did we have any players request trades to us in the 18-21 period?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Not sure many here have been too complimentary of Voss.

Supporters are unhappy with Brad Scott, Voss, Hinkley, Longmuir .....anytime a Club is losing, supporters bring the knives out .....most of the time they have no idea about the game, or reasons ....they're just on an emotional journey with the Club

The 4 Coach's I mentioned, at times have their Club has played irresistible footy ....other times pittsville footy

The problem is when supporters are so fixed to a POV, they can't see the improvements