**MB Thread** Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

[Old Skool]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Melbourne: Need inside grunt, another KPP to step up and more time. This list has the most upside

Richmond: Need Vickery to stand up and take some pressure off Reiwoldt, a good ruckman, a key defender and one or two mercurial type medium sized forwards. The list has the next highest amount of upside.

Essendon: Need midfield class, and further KPP development. This list has the least amount of upside.

 

[HurleyTheFuture]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Melbourne: Need inside grunt, another KPP to step up and more time. This list has the most upside

Richmond: Need Vickery to stand up and take some pressure off Reiwoldt, a good ruckman, a key defender and one or two mercurial type medium sized forwards. The list has the next highest amount of upside.

Essendon: Need midfield class, and further KPP development. This list has the least amount of upside.

Im not saying ours has the most upside but im interested to no how you think Melbournes list has more upside then richmonds

 

[The Dustbin]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Melbourne: Need inside grunt, another KPP to step up and more time. This list has the most upside

Richmond: Need Vickery to stand up and take some pressure off Reiwoldt, a good ruckman, a key defender and one or two mercurial type medium sized forwards. The list has the next highest amount of upside.

Essendon: Need midfield class, and further KPP development. This list has the least amount of upside.

Wow

 

[LouisCK]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Im not saying ours has the most upside but im interested to no how you think Melbournes list has more upside then richmonds

Melbourne have more depth of young talent across the board.

I think Richmond's top end are better than ours, but we have a staggering amount of young depth.

 

[bulletproof]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

90% of posters have ignored the OP's request for an outsiders view. The one thing these clubs have in common is unrealistic expectations. We are going through a Victorian phase right now, when Geelong, Collingwood, Hawthorn and St Kilda eventually vacate the top 6 I think it will be the inter staters time, Freo, West Coast, Adelaide and Gold Coast. Maybe Essendon due to their wealth will force their way in with the help of free agency, but after the next two years we could be headed for a few interstate finals.

 

[Old Skool]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Im not saying ours has the most upside but im interested to no how you think Melbournes list has more upside then richmonds

I think Melbourne has a better overall spread of talent, they just need more of them to get their own pill. They have also had to endure some injuries to good young players. Melbourne's delayed climb has been caused by addressing midfielders initially, before gambling on a swathe of talls last season. Still, if you have the one to four picks, you are going to draft the best one to four players, midfielders or not. Scullys defection has set them back and obviously, Watts has also been a slow burner. IMO, they need one more top 5 KPP.

Richmond are skinny around the edges. I don't think they have a solid bottom 5 or 6, and they have a gaping hole in the ruck, which has become a pretty important position in modern football. Reiwoldt MUST get some quality big man assistance up forward. They are probably a year behind Melbourne draft wise and one more good draft away from having the required cattle.

Essendons issues would be self evident to you. However, they are the side that could become serious contenders ahead of the other teams in this thread if they can quickly address their shortcomings. Unfortunately, finding 3-5 classy onballers usually requires a visit to the bottom two rungs of the ladder or two or three drafts with top ten picks. I see Essendon as a club that knows the clock is ticking and they are behind schedule. They are a good 3-4 years in to their rebuild, so I completely understand why Hird is chasing high and low for one or two Caddy type players. He has a good instinctive understanding of football.

 

[King Corey]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

The fact they are also resorting to desperate measures and asking their few, loyal (though admirable) members to help them eliminate their debt is a joke especially since they knocked back the AFL relocation offer.

Great post. Now can you try one which wasn't a cut n paste from the Herald Sun comments section?

 

[Davis333]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Essendon have a decent list. But how much improvement do they have in them?

They have a lot of average to above average players who will see them make the 8. But will they ever mount a decent challenge?

In a couple of years there players will hit there peak and may even challenge for top 4. But with the current list they wont seriously challenge for a premiership.

North will be a little bit behind Essendon next year but will overtake them in 2013.

Richmond and Melbourne are close together. They both have so many inexperienced kids. They could both show rapid improvement or both could stagnate.

 

[Knight Ryders]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Melbourne: Need inside grunt, another KPP to step up and more time. This list has the most upside

Richmond: Need Vickery to stand up and take some pressure off Reiwoldt, a good ruckman, a key defender and one or two mercurial type medium sized forwards. The list has the next highest amount of upside.

Essendon: Need midfield class, and further KPP development. This list has the least amount of upside.

I'd agree with that. Not that far from the top sides, while the North, Melbourne and Tiges have plenty to go. Good summation

 

[HurleyTheFuture]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Essendon have a decent list. But how much improvement do they have in them?

They have a lot of average to above average players who will see them make the 8. But will they ever mount a decent challenge?

Melksham, Heppell, Hurley, Pears, Hooker, Hardingham, Zaharakis, Crameri, Carslile, Bellchambers, Ryder, Hibberd
There is a list of players who are yet to hit their prime, some of them are now where near it and have shown great signs

The average to above average players?
off the top of my head there is NLM, Davey and Slattery who doesnt get a game, it depends if you interpret average as solid
Hille and Mcveigh, but there just past their best

But your entitled to your opinion I jus fetlt like I needed to submit mine

 

[Gumblestar]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

I think Melbourne has a better overall spread of talent, they just need more of them to get their own pill. They have also had to endure some injuries to good young players. Melbourne's delayed climb has been caused by addressing midfielders initially, before gambling on a swathe of talls last season. Still, if you have the one to four picks, you are going to draft the best one to four players, midfielders or not. Scullys defection has set them back and obviously, Watts has also been a slow burner. IMO, they need one more top 5 KPP.

Richmond are skinny around the edges. I don't think they have a solid bottom 5 or 6, and they have a gaping hole in the ruck, which has become a pretty important position in modern football. Reiwoldt MUST get some quality big man assistance up forward. They are probably a year behind Melbourne draft wise and one more good draft away from having the required cattle.

Essendons issues would be self evident to you. However, they are the side that could become serious contenders ahead of the other teams in this thread if they can quickly address their shortcomings. Unfortunately, finding 3-5 classy onballers usually requires a visit to the bottom two rungs of the ladder or two or three drafts with top ten picks. I see Essendon as a club that knows the clock is ticking and they are behind schedule. They are a good 3-4 years in to their rebuild, so I completely understand why Hird is chasing high and low for one or two Caddy type players. He has a good instinctive understanding of football.

Hirdy might have a good instinctive understanding of football but it isn't anything new to what many of us Bomber fans have been saying about our midfield, not to mention opposition fans.

I would counter your point about needing to gain high picks (top 10) when in the last 3 drafts we have chosen Melksham with pick 10, Heppell with pick 8 and this year we gained a kid regarded by some as a top 5 draft talent pre-injury at 19. It would take a disaster for us to drop back into the bottom 4 so it is likely we would need to gain highly regarded mids through trading/free agency.

 

[Smyth94]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Melbourne have more depth of young talent across the board.

I think Richmond's top end are better than ours, but we have a staggering amount of young depth.

Yeah a lot of your young talent is also unproven - there are no guarantees the likes of Blease, Strauss, Tapscott are going to become legitimate guns or players.

As it stands all they have shown are flashes and glimpses but until they can stand up and deliver a quality season of AFL footy, it is just untapped talent.

I think Melbourne has a better overall spread of talent, they just need more of them to get their own pill. They have also had to endure some injuries to good young players. Melbourne's delayed climb has been caused by addressing midfielders initially, before gambling on a swathe of talls last season. Still, if you have the one to four picks, you are going to draft the best one to four players, midfielders or not. Scullys defection has set them back and obviously, Watts has also been a slow burner. IMO, they need one more top 5 KPP.

Every club endures injuries to good young players, rubbish excuse.

Melbourne's delayed climb has been caused by loading up on midfielders? Well here I was thinking that midfielders develop far more quicker than KPPs in their formative years...

Essendon have a decent list. But how much improvement do they have in them?

They have a lot of average to above average players who will see them make the 8. But will they ever mount a decent challenge?

I love this. Opposition supporter trying to downplay Essendon making the 8 ahead of their team - Proven AFL young kids vs untapped talent. Rationalisation at its best.

 

[LouisCK]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Yeah a lot of your young talent is also unproven - there are no guarantees the likes of Blease, Strauss, Tapscott are going to become legitimate guns or players.

As it stands all they have shown are flashes and glimpses but until they can stand up and deliver a quality season of AFL footy, it is just untapped talent.

Exactly, the question was about potential. And that's why people see Melbourne as having a high ceiling - there's just a stupid amount of young players who have shown at least a decent bit of ability for the Demons.

Jurrah
Watts
Frawley
Grimes
Tapscott
Blease
Trengove
McKenzie
Howe
Nicholson
Bail
Strauss
Martin
Gawn
Viney
Cook
McDonald
Clarke

And there's a bunch more whose names escape me right at the minute, as well as this years draftees.

But I would take Richmond's top 5 or 6 youngsters over Melbourne's - I'm just positive Richmond haven't been able to plunder the draft the way the Demons have (and we've been exceptionally good with our late picks and rookie draft as well).

Then when you factor in three first rounders in next years super draft (one of which is Viney), the Dees do genuinely have a staggering amount of highly rated young blokes.

 

[Smyth94]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Exactly, the question was about potential. And that's why people see Melbourne as having a high ceiling - there's just a stupid amount of young players who have shown at least a decent bit of ability for the Demons.

Jurrah
Watts
Frawley
Grimes
Tapscott
Blease
Trengove
McKenzie
Howe
Nicholson
Bail
Strauss
Martin
Gawn
Viney
Cook
McDonald
Clarke

What is the point in talking about potential? How do you measure it? Is it just purely based on where they were taken in the draft? But then how do you explain the numerous examples of players taken at later picks who end up forging far better careers than someone taken earlier. It's just too subjective, the only way to rate young players is to see them perform at the highest level week-in, week-out.

The bolded players are the ones who have shown they can cut it at AFL level on a consistent basis, not just flashes and glimpses. There's a few in that bold group who I think will turn out to be absolutely gold plated. The rest still have far too many question marks to tell IMO.

 

[LouisCK]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

The point of talking about potential is essentially an attempt to predict the future.

It's fun.

And you're talking about it yourself by engaging me in this discussion. So surely you must see the point in discussing it as well?

 

[Davis333]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Melksham, Heppell, Hurley, Pears, Hooker, Hardingham, Zaharakis, Crameri, Carslile, Bellchambers, Ryder, Hibberd
There is a list of players who are yet to hit their prime, some of them are now where near it and have shown great signs

The average to above average players?
off the top of my head there is NLM, Davey and Slattery who doesnt get a game, it depends if you interpret average as solid
Hille and Mcveigh, but there just past their best

But your entitled to your opinion I jus fetlt like I needed to submit mine

Jetta.
Howlett.
Davey.
Dempsey.
Dyson.
Gumbleton.
Hille.
Hocking.
Hooker.
NL Murray.
McVeigh.
Monfries.
Myers.

Any of these players could be a part of a premeirship team. But not when you have so many of them.

I remember someone posting the same thing about the melbourne list of 2004.
I thought no way. Yze, White, Bruce, Green, McDonald, Carrol. They are better than that. they are good enough to win a flag.

 

[Wernumberone]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Jetta.
Howlett.
Davey.
Dempsey.
Dyson.
Gumbleton.
Hille.
Hocking.
Hooker.
NL Murray.
McVeigh.
Monfries.
Myers.

Any of these players could be a part of a premeirship team. But not when you have so many of them.

I remember someone posting the same thing about the melbourne list of 2004.
I thought no way. Yze, White, Bruce, Green, McDonald, Carrol. They are better than that. they are good enough to win a flag.

But we won't be ready to even think about top 4 until 2013 at the very earliest so why does it even matter?

Fletcher
Hille
McVeigh
NLM
Davey
Dyson
Slattery

Will all be gone next year and if Gumbleton has the same injury issues, so will he.

It's not about the players you listed, apart from Hooker and Hocking who are both important, but the next crop coming through, many of which have already shown significant promise.

It only takes one or two standout picks to make a big difference to any team and contrary to BF belief good players don't only come from early picks.

 

[Donakebab]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Dyson, Hille, McVeigh and NLM won't be there in 2013.

 

[Ambrosia]

Jetta.
Howlett.
Davey.
Dempsey.
Dyson.
Gumbleton.
Hille.
Hocking.
Hooker.
NL Murray.
McVeigh.
Monfries.
Myers.

Any of these players could be a part of a premeirship team. But not when you have so many of them.

I remember someone posting the same thing about the melbourne list of 2004.
I thought no way. Yze, White, Bruce, Green, McDonald, Carrol. They are better than that. they are good enough to win a flag.

Howlett is coming into like his third year next year and seriously underated around here.

Hocking - having him here shows how little you know about football

Hooker - Go and watch his pre Hamstring injury games this year when be was taking the number 1 forward week in week out and was up there in marks from opposition kicks and contested marks

Dempsy - was very good early in the year and we really missed his run from defence after he went down with injury.

Myers - this was his first year injury free and he played well when played in his natural position but struggled when injury forced him to play chb

Monfries - is rated by the coaches and can do some good defensive jobs.

Jetta - Can be very good or very bad but I hope he can find consistency.

The others aren't in our best 22 and I think most teams would be happy if there worst players were Monfries and Jetta were their worst players.

 

[HurleyTheFuture]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Jetta.
Howlett
Dempsey.
Hocking
Hooker
Monfries.
Myers.

Any of these players could be a part of a premeirship team. But not when you have so many of them.

I remember someone posting the same thing about the melbourne list of 2004.
I thought no way. Yze, White, Bruce, Green, McDonald, Carrol. They are better than that. they are good enough to win a flag.

I took away the ones that arent in our best 22 and would have no chance of playing in a premiership

Hooker is a full back that has shown alot
And the fact you have Hocking there shows that you havent watched any of essendon this season
Oh and heres your list

Dunn
Jetta
Bartram
Bate
Morton
Davey
Bennell
J.Macdonald
Garland
If Myers is in Jack Watts is.

 

[whelan=legend]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

BTW - Reimers, Jetta and Crameri kicked 27, 27 and 34 goals respectively...all of which puts them in the top 3 goal kickers at Demonland.

You're in more trouble than I thought.

How does that make us 'in trouble' when Crameri was your leading goal kicker, and Jetta/ Reimers were =3rd?


That's like me saying "Jurrah and Green kicked more than any Essendon player, you're in more trouble than I thought!"

 

[teknodeejay]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Essendon well ahead of Richmond who I have ahead of North and then Melbourne languishing at the rear.

Bombers could finish top 6 if everything goes right.

Richmond will play finals if not this year than next. They're on the rise. Patience is needed.

Not sure what to say about North. Whenever I like them they're middle of the road whenever I dont they're middle of the road. So I'll be brave and say they'll be middle of the road again

Melbourne... hate to say it but Scully going just sets things back.

 

[HurleyTheFuture]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

How does that make us 'in trouble' when Crameri was your leading goal kicker, and Jetta/ Reimers were =3rd?


That's like me saying "Jurrah and Green kicked more than any Essendon player, you're in more trouble than I thought!"

The point he was making to the other guy is that Crameri, Jetta and Reimers would fit in your best 22 after the seasons they had. Considering he had those three in our bottom 6 i would consider it a very good one

 

[HurleyTheFuture]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

And then the OP's 'Bad Luck' players:

Bad luck: Hardingham (eh), McVeigh (lost it), Lonergan (best of this bunch), Colyer (not bad), Ross (not bad), Hille (permacrocked), NLM (rubbish), Prismall (rubbish), Gumby (permacrocked)

Your depth beyond the so-called Best 22 is worrying. Everyone knows you need around 28 players all firing at the same time to keep pressure on for spots and if you are ever to have a chance. By me, Essendon have maybe 26 before injuries. The squad is simply too filled with dross to really build up.

And yes, Crameiri is bottom six. Not a mistake.

Tell me how our depth isnt better than yours, show your bad luck list
And hardingham, lonergan, colyer would all get a game at melbourne

 

[Tassieboy]

Re: Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North – views from the outside

Why have Bombers, Dees, Tiges, North supporters come in here and ruined the thread?