Coach Michael Voss

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gab213 said:
Herein lies the problem, we have been waiting 28 years and expect somebody like Voss to come in and fix it all up for us within 18 months.
No strong, stable and successful club was ever built off the back of chopping and changing all the time. It's quite sad, as a club and as a supporter group we have become Richmond of the 80s and 90s
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He's been handed a list with talent on it, not a wooden spoon list.

I agree it is a lot for a coach with limited ability in that role to come in and construct a game plan to compete with the best teams in the league but he put his hand up for the job so he has to produce the goods a hell of a lot quicker than a team who has been in the wooden spoon region in the last few years.
 
Rock and a hard place, you sack Voss, you clean out assistant coaches, who is going to want to come work for you? We do that we build on a reputation that we already have which IMO is one of the worst things a footy club can have.

IMO out coach sacking reputation is one of the reasons we continue to go nowhere. Coaches who are desirable, who are in demand, who are rated go somewhere else.

Seriously, would you want to go to an employer who fires people in your position regularly? Would you want to go to work somewhere with terrible job security? No, you'd go elsewhere unless no one would have you. This is probably why we have always had a group of terrible assistant coaches the least 23 years.

A lot of pressure on Brad Lloyd and Brian Cook to put in place a coaching panel that is as good as it gets. New ideas and a better understanding of the fundamentals of modern footy is something we are crying out for. But who's going to want to come to work for us? Who in their right mind is going to leave their club for us?

IMO we need to throw caution to the wind and take on a few recently retired types from really good clubs and coaching systems. It's not like we can buy our coaches due to the soft cap.

We need to probably be willing to pay good dollars for a senior assistant. We need to take advantage of good people who have a soft spot for us like Eddie Betts. His coaching of our forwards would be really really handy right now.

I think we need to spend some time backing in Voss, making sure he remains open minded and open to the ideas of his assistants and trying to lure good people in.
 
bourbons said:
Literally every player on the list bar Cerra, Curnow, Owies and possibly Newman imo.

Not even sure how thats possible to be honest. Gotta be a fair mental component, I think the end to last season has done a number on them.
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I would have Cerra and Newman as some of the very very small list of players who have improved.
 

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Arr0w said:
Harry just needs 2 set routines, one for set shots, one for around the corner
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Yep.

Simplify it down. Draw out a map of the 50 for him.

Anything right of the goals within 35/40 he can snap.

Anything left of the goals or over 40 he must kick a drop punt.

Work out a routine for both.

Practice them. Lots. Then practice it again.


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juzza316 said:
Yep, I don't disagree. Easier to sack the coach though than a heap of players. Cripps will likely go to be in his 30's and never have played finals
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Not saying Cripps is the issue, but there has to be a problem in that core nucleus of players. Just not sure about the source of the issue. It could just be a combination not working well together rather than any individual.


And yes, core nucleus is redundant.

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There's been a change of thread name here, it's no longer welcome Vossy in case some haven't noticed. Not sure when this occured, my guess is maybe after the Crow debacle, or was it the Saints failure?
Anyway, it is perfectly acceptable to question the reasons behind Carlton's players sudden inability to perform basic football skills, and this is the thread to address this.
Anyone with a semi functioning chord connecting their eyes to their brain can see that something negative is developing on field between the players and their instructions.
Maybe one of our ITK's or player contacts could clear this all up and cease the need for more of this Voss defending or critiquing?
 
The Blue Weirdo said:
There's been a change of thread name here, it's no longer welcome Vossy in case some haven't noticed. Not sure when this occured, my guess is maybe after the Crow debacle, or was it the Saints failure?
Anyway, it is perfectly acceptable to question the reasons behind Carlton's players sudden inability to perform basic football skills, and this is the thread to address this.
Anyone with a semi functioning chord connecting their eyes to their brain can see that something negative is developing on field between the players and their instructions.
Maybe one of our ITK's or player contacts could clear this all up and cease the need for more of this Voss defending or critiquing?
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Debacle and failure? Strange descriptions, but it does highlight the storyline being pushed by different groups

I mean, they are losses, no more, no less
 
I wonder how we are training? I have always thought that you train your guts out in the off season and in season it becomes all about skills and maintenance. Are we flogging our guys too hard and burning them out mid week? IMO sometimes the coach will want to train a side hard after losing when sometimes the best thing is to focus on being fresh and honing in the skills. It's just that we look flat, run out of gas we, just has the look of a side who's either not doing enough or doing too much. Surely Russell is all over this and we are listening to the guy.
 
Arr0w said:
Debacle and failure? Strange descriptions, but it does highlight the storyline being pushed by different groups

I mean, they are losses, no more, no less
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Wins and losses mean less to me than most. You can play like champions, but still lose.(I'd be happy as Larry)
I'm more concerned about the onfield player visuals and general confusion that has developed as the season progresses.
All this could be put to rest and no more excuses required by simply responding with 4 quarters of good quality football, regardless of the final scores.
(every week)
 
The Blue Weirdo said:
Wins and losses mean less to me than most. You can play like champions, but still lose.(I'd be happy as Larry)
I'm more concerned about the onfield player visuals and general confusion that has developed as the season progresses.
All this could be put to rest and no more excuses required by simply responding with 4 quarters of good quality football, regardless of the final scores.
(every week)
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I was just interested in the terminology being used
 
I’m not sure it’s all doom and gloom as I keep reading the posts from the last three weeks.

Last year we had a game plan with all gloss but not substance to halt momentum swings.

Voss has corrected that with a slow pace methodology to stop these swings. It’s a hard watch I agree. Maybe a slight over correction but also playing into this is poor decision making and efficiency which has halted our improvement.

Last week against the bulldogs in the third quarter, slight adjustments to the game plan I.e talls playing further up the ground and smalls playing deeper, showed us glimpses of what could be. The smalls looked dangerous and we even got a joe the goose out the back goal.

From my viewpoint it’s not all gloom and doom but just the progress we have to wear until it clicks. Maybe Voss has more tricks like the 3rd qtr changes in stall but before we use these we need to have more control on tempo footy to be competitive week in week out.

Going to be a great watch over the remainder of the year to determine our progress not just for this year but hopefully for continued success.
 

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One thing we need is opposition analysis.

Things I bet we don't know going into this game about the opposition players...

When do they follow their man and when do they run off?

Daicos for example. When will he chase an opponent and when will he sag off? What about Moore? When does he play up in front of his man and how do we make him defend? How do we make Maynard defend and how do we make him chase? Can we force these guys to do more defensive running than usual? Can we use our elite runners like Cottrell and Curnow to take them high up the ground and make them run hard back and burn them out? Where does Cox mostly go when he is rucking?

An area of the game I think we need to focus on is making the opposition run hard. We move the ball so poorly we don't do it as a team but our forwards need to focus on their better better defenders and work on how they can make them cover more ground and run harder. Work on making them defend and taking them to places on the field where they aren't as dangerous. If Maynard is going to stick to you, take him to half back with the intention of burning him off running the other way, it takes his intercept and rebound game away from him. If Moore is going to stand 15 meters in front of you, stand next to him and lead off him, takes his intercept game away and makes him defend. If Daicos is going to play man you up on occasion, take him as far up the ground as possible, man him up and try and make him run back hard to defend. If he's not going to man up at all, then either tag or play an extra forward and isolate that player forward of the ball.

Opposition analysis is important at this level. This is why you just don't always go out and play your own way which we did last year and lost close games because of it.

Players need to be trying to make their better players do things they don't want to be doing that takes away from their game such as defensive running, going to places of the field where you're out of the play, not allowing attacking defenders prime position, knowing where ruckmen are likely to look to go, knowing when players are going to run off and when they will man up etc.

IMO Voss is probably a fine coach, it's just that where footy is at now, there is so much to it.
 
I dont think it is fair to only criticize Voss and his assistants and the board.

I would like to see a thread where we can analize the bootstudder and the laundry person for example.
I mean do washing expenses come under the salary cap?
boot polish?
do they have the latest technolgy washing machine?
What about the cleaners, are our training facilties up to scratch or do we need Mr Sheen as a sponsor?

High time we started getting serious about the small things that help win a flag, and for that matter when we win it, who will have their workload increased to the point of having to iron said flag regularly?

I could go on.......................
 
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gbatman said:
One thing we need is opposition analysis.

Things I bet we don't know going into this game about the opposition players...

When do they follow their man and when do they run off?

Daicos for example. When will he chase an opponent and when will he sag off? What about Moore? When does he play up in front of his man and how do we make him defend? How do we make Maynard defend and how do we make him chase? Can we force these guys to do more defensive running than usual? Can we use our elite runners like Cottrell and Curnow to take them high up the ground and make them run hard back and burn them out? Where does Cox mostly go when he is rucking?

An area of the game I think we need to focus on is making the opposition run hard. We move the ball so poorly we don't do it as a team but our forwards need to focus on their better better defenders and work on how they can make them cover more ground and run harder. Work on making them defend and taking them to places on the field where they aren't as dangerous. If Maynard is going to stick to you, take him to half back with the intention of burning him off running the other way, it takes his intercept and rebound game away from him. If Moore is going to stand 15 meters in front of you, stand next to him and lead off him, takes his intercept game away and makes him defend. If Daicos is going to play man you up on occasion, take him as far up the ground as possible, man him up and try and make him run back hard to defend. If he's not going to man up at all, then either tag or play an extra forward and isolate that player forward of the ball.

Opposition analysis is important at this level. This is why you just don't always go out and play your own way which we did last year and lost close games because of it.

Players need to be trying to make their better players do things they don't want to be doing that takes away from their game such as defensive running, going to places of the field where you're out of the play, not allowing attacking defenders prime position, knowing where ruckmen are likely to look to go, knowing when players are going to run off and when they will man up etc.

IMO Voss is probably a fine coach, it's just that where footy is at now, there is so much to it.
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I thought Greaves does out Oppo Analysis.
 
TJohn said:
Michael Voss will return this Club to it’s former glory. All he need’s is a couple former team mates with him. Not the blokes with him at the mo.
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Something in that probably. But Lepitch (sp?) you'd think is rather happy at Pieland.
 

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Coach Michael Voss

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