- Jun 9, 2008
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Ash Hansen is our Forward Line and Offensive coach. Has to be in the gun too.
Coach Michael Voss
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Ash Hansen is our Forward Line and Offensive coach. Has to be in the gun too.
- Oct 11, 2019
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Well of course a coach is only as good as his cattle. Comparing our list with theirs, who's would you say is better?
They don't have a Brownlow medallist, or a Coleman medallist, let alone two of them. On paper I would say our list has far more firepower up forward, has more midfield depth, has at least as good a defence. Maybe in the ruck, they have a slight advantage with Marshall and that's about it.
- Oct 11, 2019
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Hmmm, before this season started I actually thought we did. Our age demographic put us in the premiership window, so the experts said.
Second year under Vossy, he needed the first season under his belt to really know the player's and their strengths and weaknesses.
He will be much better prepared this season to take us to the finals, they said.
Maybe, this is the season we had to have. A real reality check, suddenly we see now that we do need more outside run and a reliable third forward. Maybe a quick, elusive and skilful midfielder would be handy.
Don't think we are that far off, just imagine if Williams was fit and playing across half-forward, along with Cunners. Okay I am aloud to dream.
Boydy coming back in is a huge plus, give him another month and he will have match fitness and he will be hitting his straps.
Young has been ordinary this season, if he does not lift I expect to see either Marchy or Sam Durdin take his spot.
I'm prepared to look forward to the future, rather than look back over my shoulder whining why we didn't beg Ross to be our coach..... And then join the Trumpites and claim it was a woke decision! The club went through a process, something they have been maligned for not doing all the way back to Parkin, while every other club accepted the modern reality of actually finding the right candidate!! But of course the old "**** the rest " mentality means we have to sack the coach because we're loosing some games. If Richmond, yes unbelievably Ninethmond, stuck to that mentality Hardwick would not have coached a Premiership, nor Bomber, nor Bevo, nor Goodwin....
So lets sack Vossy, rinse repeat
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He owns city south physiotherapy in port Melbourne and is one of the club physios too.
thylacine60
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I'm not sure whoever brought the marc murphy rumour to bf all those years ago gave much thought to who was working there at the time when he mentioned port melbourne physio - poster had a username with 'monkey' or 'X' in it I think...........
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JustaBattler
Everyone Looks Better In Blue
- May 31, 2012
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Pre-season everyone is up and about thinking positively. It was bitterly disappointing to see the team miss out on finals by the barest of margins at the end- playing very strong football with a depleted midfield so naturally high expectations.
Then the pre-season injuries hit very late - and the improvement that was going to happen on top of existing players took a hit. People forget even half decent role players like Cottrell/Boyd have been out as well as Williams and Cuningham got put out by one of our own ...etc etc..but the biggies were Walsh/Hewett and Kennedy not having pre-seasons that was 3 of the fab five under the gun all recovering from very serious injury
Continuity mate it is everything to a team under a new coach...
but back to the list - simple benchmark is pick a top performing team and put the players at Carlton that would replace their players...simple exercise to do against any opposition..
Which is why 'entitled' expectations are an insult to the Club and players and coach - entitlement ignores reality and also takes for granted way too much.
Just my view - I understand it stands at ods with the view on here that says Voss is hopeless and clueless That is an easy call to make - it is the same call Carlton supporters have been making on every coach since Parkin.
- Jun 4, 2016
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Think the sum of individual parts of this list is great in tangible measurables.
Intangibles like leadership, grit etc it's kinda shite but that can change and has in other playing groups before.
Just need the two groups to come together and figure it out. Until then everyone is gonna think their binary reasoning of it can only be one or the other. Voss has a lot to work with and probably hasn't got it firing anywhere near where internal expectations would like but on the flip side I'd guess after listening to McKay and some other players that they aren't doing their own talent justice.
There's also a chance these internal things have all changed and we'll see positive results on delay - or not.
Just don't want to Leon Cameron a good list and don't want to sack a good coach for struggling with a bad list. Although ultimately I think this group's not playing close to their ceiling at all.
Intangibles like leadership, grit etc it's kinda shite but that can change and has in other playing groups before.
Just need the two groups to come together and figure it out. Until then everyone is gonna think their binary reasoning of it can only be one or the other. Voss has a lot to work with and probably hasn't got it firing anywhere near where internal expectations would like but on the flip side I'd guess after listening to McKay and some other players that they aren't doing their own talent justice.
There's also a chance these internal things have all changed and we'll see positive results on delay - or not.
Just don't want to Leon Cameron a good list and don't want to sack a good coach for struggling with a bad list. Although ultimately I think this group's not playing close to their ceiling at all.
I just wonder are we on the nose when it comes to hiring people? If we have competition to get someone then we don't get them. Has our past come back to bit us?
Voss - There weren't too many clubs looking for a coach at the time. He had a go at Brisbane coaching them which saw the club make finals but eventually spiral downwards and a player exodus followed. He had some reasonable success at Port Adelaide as an assistant. He reads as an ok choice. I just wonder whether we were a little close minded at the time with our criteria of not picking a coach with "training wheels" on. Voss grew up a Carlton supporter so the lure of coaching us would surely be there with that soft spot.
Hamill - Senior assistant and backline coach. Fair to say our backline has ability but our midfield does not support our backline's ability to intercept and rebound due to lack of pressure, leg speed and intensity. Hamill comes from 10 years coaching St Kilda. Looking at St Kilda over the last 10 years they have been pretty bloody ordinary. Grew up a carlton supporter and played for us so there is a soft spot there surely.
Clarke - Midfield coach. Forwards coach at Gold Coast, played with Hawthorn during their down years. Couched our midfield in our down years and a VFL coach at Richmond. Hardly screams pick me! Our midfield is performing poorly. Easy to tag Cripps. Not much of an outside game. Connects poorly with the forwards, does not support the backs. Looks as if modern footy has left it in it's wake.
Ash Hansen - 9 years at the bulldogs, he saw that one great year where they won the premiership. The Dogs have hardly been a huge success in any of those other seasons. Still at least he comes from a club that has seen success. He was also a premiership player at the eagles. His credentials are probably one of our best.
Power - He's a triple premiership player like Voss. Coaching background wise there is not a lot there but he's rated pretty highly.
Kreuzer - We all know his background. A good solid ruckman as a player in a poor and poorly run club. First coaching gig with us. Carlton person.
Greaves - Comes across as a development coach and a coaches' coach of sorts. Been at a few clubs, none of them particularly any good during his time. But it's probably not so much his role to coach the team and players or is it? Came over with Voss.
Baker - No AFL background.
Ebert - Moderately successful player who has been a part of moderately successful teams.
Lonergan - doesn't have a coaching background in a successful side but comes from a successful side as a player.
To me, a club which inspires to be the best this is not the most exciting list. You look at people you would want to have. People who have been at Hawthorn in the Clarkson era. People who have been at Geelong in the Scott era. People who have been at Richmond during Hardwicks premiership era. But we get people who have been at clubs who aren't overly successful. It was the same with Ratten, Brittan, Pagan, Teague, Bolton etc. It's still the same, nothing has changed.
Lets compare us to Collingwood.
McRae - Same credentials as Voss as a player but a coaching stint with Richmond during their dominant years really gives him the leg up.
Bolton - Yeah he failed with us but who hasn't? Gun assistant coach under Clarkson in Hawthorn's golden era.
Skipworth - not sure his coaching background.
Leppitch - Gun assistant coach. Lions premiership star, comes from a stint coaching at Richmond.
Jetta - Not a huge amount in his playing background but having a former small forward as a forward coach, it's not genius, it makes sense.
Scott Selwood - Been at West Coast and Geelong, two pretty reasonable clubs, particularly Geelong. Just a dev coach.
Roughead - premiership player with the Dogs. Early years for him as a coach.
Josh Fraser - He's been around a bit. Been with us as coach of the VFL side. Played in Collingwood's runner up years.
Otten, McMillan and Singh round out the rest.
What's different? Well they have people from two of the most successful clubs in the last 15 years. They like us have a good injection of Brisbane Lions three-peat. They have some really good people from Richmond's golden era in Leppitch and McRae. They have Bolton who was one of the closes to Clarkson during Hawthorn's golden era. They have Selwood who was at Geelong for a bit. And they have a guy who was a small forward coaching the forwards.
So bottom end of their coaching end they are comparable to us. But in terms of their top end they smash us. People from who I consider the big four clubs of the modern era Brisbane, Richmond, Hawthorn and Geelong are going to know a bit about how to run a good footy team. They also have a small forward as coach which brings important diversity and an ability to see the game differently.
What boxes should we be looking to tick?
People from these clubs successful eras.
Brisbane - yes
Geelong - yes
Richmond - no
Hawthorn - no
Small forward coach - no
Are we limited to picking up assistants no one wants or have been rejected by other clubs or have a soft spot for Carlton? Is this due to our history of sacking coaches and poor success? Voss, Hamill, Kreuzer all would have a soft spot for us. The rest either followed Voss or were leaving other clubs and options weren't great. Even Brad Lloyd and Nick Austin are probably here because their father's played here and they probably grew up following us. SOS another example of us relying on Carlton people to come step in and help out. Ratten and Teague as well.
Are we that on the nose where people with no Carlton connection and good credentials will never end up here?
IMO we are still rebuilding, still building the team on and off the field. Getting Cook was a breath of fresh air, a good proven person from a good club. We've done that before. Bolton etc Malthouse, Russell. But they don't have the success they have here and that's because they aren't surrounded with a team of quality.
Voss - There weren't too many clubs looking for a coach at the time. He had a go at Brisbane coaching them which saw the club make finals but eventually spiral downwards and a player exodus followed. He had some reasonable success at Port Adelaide as an assistant. He reads as an ok choice. I just wonder whether we were a little close minded at the time with our criteria of not picking a coach with "training wheels" on. Voss grew up a Carlton supporter so the lure of coaching us would surely be there with that soft spot.
Hamill - Senior assistant and backline coach. Fair to say our backline has ability but our midfield does not support our backline's ability to intercept and rebound due to lack of pressure, leg speed and intensity. Hamill comes from 10 years coaching St Kilda. Looking at St Kilda over the last 10 years they have been pretty bloody ordinary. Grew up a carlton supporter and played for us so there is a soft spot there surely.
Clarke - Midfield coach. Forwards coach at Gold Coast, played with Hawthorn during their down years. Couched our midfield in our down years and a VFL coach at Richmond. Hardly screams pick me! Our midfield is performing poorly. Easy to tag Cripps. Not much of an outside game. Connects poorly with the forwards, does not support the backs. Looks as if modern footy has left it in it's wake.
Ash Hansen - 9 years at the bulldogs, he saw that one great year where they won the premiership. The Dogs have hardly been a huge success in any of those other seasons. Still at least he comes from a club that has seen success. He was also a premiership player at the eagles. His credentials are probably one of our best.
Power - He's a triple premiership player like Voss. Coaching background wise there is not a lot there but he's rated pretty highly.
Kreuzer - We all know his background. A good solid ruckman as a player in a poor and poorly run club. First coaching gig with us. Carlton person.
Greaves - Comes across as a development coach and a coaches' coach of sorts. Been at a few clubs, none of them particularly any good during his time. But it's probably not so much his role to coach the team and players or is it? Came over with Voss.
Baker - No AFL background.
Ebert - Moderately successful player who has been a part of moderately successful teams.
Lonergan - doesn't have a coaching background in a successful side but comes from a successful side as a player.
To me, a club which inspires to be the best this is not the most exciting list. You look at people you would want to have. People who have been at Hawthorn in the Clarkson era. People who have been at Geelong in the Scott era. People who have been at Richmond during Hardwicks premiership era. But we get people who have been at clubs who aren't overly successful. It was the same with Ratten, Brittan, Pagan, Teague, Bolton etc. It's still the same, nothing has changed.
Lets compare us to Collingwood.
McRae - Same credentials as Voss as a player but a coaching stint with Richmond during their dominant years really gives him the leg up.
Bolton - Yeah he failed with us but who hasn't? Gun assistant coach under Clarkson in Hawthorn's golden era.
Skipworth - not sure his coaching background.
Leppitch - Gun assistant coach. Lions premiership star, comes from a stint coaching at Richmond.
Jetta - Not a huge amount in his playing background but having a former small forward as a forward coach, it's not genius, it makes sense.
Scott Selwood - Been at West Coast and Geelong, two pretty reasonable clubs, particularly Geelong. Just a dev coach.
Roughead - premiership player with the Dogs. Early years for him as a coach.
Josh Fraser - He's been around a bit. Been with us as coach of the VFL side. Played in Collingwood's runner up years.
Otten, McMillan and Singh round out the rest.
What's different? Well they have people from two of the most successful clubs in the last 15 years. They like us have a good injection of Brisbane Lions three-peat. They have some really good people from Richmond's golden era in Leppitch and McRae. They have Bolton who was one of the closes to Clarkson during Hawthorn's golden era. They have Selwood who was at Geelong for a bit. And they have a guy who was a small forward coaching the forwards.
So bottom end of their coaching end they are comparable to us. But in terms of their top end they smash us. People from who I consider the big four clubs of the modern era Brisbane, Richmond, Hawthorn and Geelong are going to know a bit about how to run a good footy team. They also have a small forward as coach which brings important diversity and an ability to see the game differently.
What boxes should we be looking to tick?
People from these clubs successful eras.
Brisbane - yes
Geelong - yes
Richmond - no
Hawthorn - no
Small forward coach - no
Are we limited to picking up assistants no one wants or have been rejected by other clubs or have a soft spot for Carlton? Is this due to our history of sacking coaches and poor success? Voss, Hamill, Kreuzer all would have a soft spot for us. The rest either followed Voss or were leaving other clubs and options weren't great. Even Brad Lloyd and Nick Austin are probably here because their father's played here and they probably grew up following us. SOS another example of us relying on Carlton people to come step in and help out. Ratten and Teague as well.
Are we that on the nose where people with no Carlton connection and good credentials will never end up here?
IMO we are still rebuilding, still building the team on and off the field. Getting Cook was a breath of fresh air, a good proven person from a good club. We've done that before. Bolton etc Malthouse, Russell. But they don't have the success they have here and that's because they aren't surrounded with a team of quality.
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Analysis is a good start but would benefit from a table to compare people and roles side by side, as well as broadening it out to other key roles in the football department because I feel that's where we really fall away experience-wise. (Keen to determine if my "feelings" are right or not so this would be a good exercise)
E.g. we have Russell entrenched in a key role in the football department - so technically we are "Hawthorn - yes"
I want more Geelong than anyone else. No idea how they've stayed relevant almost every year since I can remember and never bottom out, but that's the secret sauce I'm after.
thylacine60
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after losing the gf by a kick in one of the greatest games ever played (ablett 9?) in 1989, they continued to make finals and gfs and continued to lose them - it wasn't until the stars aligned with coach, admin, f/sons, free trade and steven wells drafting and trading (this took a good 8 years to consolidate) that they finally broke through in 07 after a 45 year drought..........they were pretty insignificant for a long, long time...........
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Saw power this morning with one of the development coaches, looked quite relaxed.
Wasn't sure if it was Lonergan or Ebert from behind
Wasn't sure if it was Lonergan or Ebert from behind
Every environemant, scenario, structure...is different.
How does one apple tree bloom with great fruit yet another a few metres away doesnt?
Comparing clubs is the same.
You could put all the personnel from one club in a different club and theres no guarantee of success.
That is no sleight on the individuals concerned.
How does one apple tree bloom with great fruit yet another a few metres away doesnt?
Comparing clubs is the same.
You could put all the personnel from one club in a different club and theres no guarantee of success.
That is no sleight on the individuals concerned.
Blues Clues
Senior List
- Jun 19, 2011
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Another coaching failure
Sigh
Sigh
You put a bunch of failed coaches together and what do you get?
Voss - no tactical sense at all. No plan B. Each week we get massacred with this slow ball movement and yet each week he keeps backing the system. I at least thought he would set some standards akin to the one of the games greatest ever captains. But no he’s this new age ‘woke’ coach who’s afraid to look players in the eye.
Ash Hansen - has the last 2 Coleman medalists at his disposal, yet we are constantly double teamed and have no forward tactic what so ever. Why is there no one ever crumbing when the ball hits the ground?
Aaron Hamill - what had happened to our backline? Aaron Hamill so called team defence. It is an absolute horror show. Where had the intercept marking gone? At least in years past we’d get caught out the back but we’d be an intercepting force.
Tim Clark - besides Cerra everyone has gone backward. Besides the contest where this year we aren’t even winning, what else do our midfields excel at?
Aaron Greaves - coaching director? What does he even do. Absolutely useless! Get rid of him.
Andrew Russell - taking up half the soft cap. Our players can’t run out game, nor are they strong enough. Well past it and needs to be moved on.
Brad Lloyd - been absolutely horrible since he came in. Our football department has continuously underperformed. How has he survived this long?
Ash Hansen - has the last 2 Coleman medalists at his disposal, yet we are constantly double teamed and have no forward tactic what so ever. Why is there no one ever crumbing when the ball hits the ground?
Aaron Hamill - what had happened to our backline? Aaron Hamill so called team defence. It is an absolute horror show. Where had the intercept marking gone? At least in years past we’d get caught out the back but we’d be an intercepting force.
Tim Clark - besides Cerra everyone has gone backward. Besides the contest where this year we aren’t even winning, what else do our midfields excel at?
Aaron Greaves - coaching director? What does he even do. Absolutely useless! Get rid of him.
Andrew Russell - taking up half the soft cap. Our players can’t run out game, nor are they strong enough. Well past it and needs to be moved on.
Brad Lloyd - been absolutely horrible since he came in. Our football department has continuously underperformed. How has he survived this long?
Do we think the players believe in the Voss mantra?
Voss knock at Brisbane was communication. Post his exit players came out and said his communication was not clear and confusing.
It looks more the same here. Additional to this, is he too stubborn to change the gameplan?
Any ITKs got intel on if the assistants are being heard/ listened to?
Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk
Voss knock at Brisbane was communication. Post his exit players came out and said his communication was not clear and confusing.
It looks more the same here. Additional to this, is he too stubborn to change the gameplan?
Any ITKs got intel on if the assistants are being heard/ listened to?
Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk
A new coach won't change anything. It might be a bitter pill for some to swallow, but the list is in a rebuild state. No amount of good coaching will fix it. You can point to McCrae and Collingwood, but they still had a supremely talented list.
If you want to compete for flags, half the best 22 needs to be filled with A-graders. We have a total of two A-graders right now in Cripps and Curnow, then a single potential A-grader, Walsh.
In the midfield, we're fielding Cerra, Kennedy, E.Curnow, Acres, Cottrell and Hollands against De Goey, N.Daicos, J.Daicos, Adams, Crisp, Mitchell, Sidebottom and Pendlebury. Like, what do you expect? Do not underestimate the failure of the list management over the last 10 years.
If you want to compete for flags, half the best 22 needs to be filled with A-graders. We have a total of two A-graders right now in Cripps and Curnow, then a single potential A-grader, Walsh.
In the midfield, we're fielding Cerra, Kennedy, E.Curnow, Acres, Cottrell and Hollands against De Goey, N.Daicos, J.Daicos, Adams, Crisp, Mitchell, Sidebottom and Pendlebury. Like, what do you expect? Do not underestimate the failure of the list management over the last 10 years.
Blues Clues
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**** keeping Voss.
We ****ed up not getting Lyon.
We ****ed up not getting Lyon.
