Blues Clues
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- Jun 19, 2011
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Coach Michael Voss
- Thread starter Aphrodite
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People have this idea that because we've been at the bottom for so long and had so many high draft picks, we should therefore be challenging for Premierships right now, and if we're not, the coach must be held to account.
The problem is: it's one thing to have a large amount of high draft picks, it's another thing to actually recruit good players with them. We have gone down the exact same path the Gold Coast have been on since their inception: poor recruiting leads to poor list. They let Scott Clayton handle all their recruiting for almost a decade, and it left their list in a state where they just cannot make progress no matter how hard they try.
Everyone gets sucked into the illusion that there is a "clear" best player for every draft year, and a no-brainer for pick 1. In 2015, that player was Jacob Weitering. Three picks later, Melbourne made the more unorthodox selection of Clayton Oliver, who didn't even get selected for the U18 Championships. In the end, Melbourne ended up with the far superior player. If our recruiter at the time (SOS) had the vision to recognize who the better player was in this instance, it would've made a huge difference to where we're at today.
That's just one example too, and not even close to the worst. Pick 6 on Petrevski-Seton, pick 3 on Dow, overpaying for Kennedy, overpaying for Cerra, overpaying for McGovern, overpaying for Saad.
With the examples we've overpaid for, smart players get this level of player from the bargain bin. Look at Geelong: Atkins, Stengle, Miers, Close, Menegola, Smith, I could go on. All of these guys were acquired for a bag of chips, and yielded Geelong a much better on-field return than what we got from our trades.
Anyway, the point of all this is that you can't just blame everything on the coach. The rot goes far deeper than any of you want to admit.
The problem is: it's one thing to have a large amount of high draft picks, it's another thing to actually recruit good players with them. We have gone down the exact same path the Gold Coast have been on since their inception: poor recruiting leads to poor list. They let Scott Clayton handle all their recruiting for almost a decade, and it left their list in a state where they just cannot make progress no matter how hard they try.
Everyone gets sucked into the illusion that there is a "clear" best player for every draft year, and a no-brainer for pick 1. In 2015, that player was Jacob Weitering. Three picks later, Melbourne made the more unorthodox selection of Clayton Oliver, who didn't even get selected for the U18 Championships. In the end, Melbourne ended up with the far superior player. If our recruiter at the time (SOS) had the vision to recognize who the better player was in this instance, it would've made a huge difference to where we're at today.
That's just one example too, and not even close to the worst. Pick 6 on Petrevski-Seton, pick 3 on Dow, overpaying for Kennedy, overpaying for Cerra, overpaying for McGovern, overpaying for Saad.
With the examples we've overpaid for, smart players get this level of player from the bargain bin. Look at Geelong: Atkins, Stengle, Miers, Close, Menegola, Smith, I could go on. All of these guys were acquired for a bag of chips, and yielded Geelong a much better on-field return than what we got from our trades.
Anyway, the point of all this is that you can't just blame everything on the coach. The rot goes far deeper than any of you want to admit.
I think you need to stop the delusion. The list isn't even remotely close to finals.
Whether Voss is the right coach is up for debate, but only a genuine miracle worker could get this team into the finals. It is unreasonable to expect anyone to be a miracle worker.
Blues Clues
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- Jun 19, 2011
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Not even remotely close?
We just missed the 8 last year - now we’re not even remotely close.
Game plan is shit. Coach is shit. Club is shit.
We just missed the 8 last year - now we’re not even remotely close.
Game plan is shit. Coach is shit. Club is shit.
Which was a massive overachievement. If anything, Voss should get extra credit for getting this list that close. Even with a terrible list, 2022 was still a noticeably large improvement over Teague's last year.
Of course, angry supporters only ever like to view things in a certain way.
Blues Clues
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SPIN SPIN SPIN
- Sep 28, 2018
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Lyon lol - his trajectory is heading in the same direction as his balls.
- Sep 28, 2018
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We still might - even after today.
It’s weird so many have the taste for a coach kill - who do you think could do better & why?
When we are on top we get a 1-2 goal advantage over a half of football
When our opposition is on top they pile on the pain 5-6 goals in a qtr
Voss, this is about system not effort. Get some strategy help asap.
When our opposition is on top they pile on the pain 5-6 goals in a qtr
Voss, this is about system not effort. Get some strategy help asap.
You are missing the point our top 6 players this year are playing absolutely no where near their best, the players you mentioned have absolutely no relevance to the discussion.
Cerra & Saad have been good additions, easy to be critical when things are as that are but stay factual.
The coaching staff have not helped, developed a overly defensive conservative game plan over summer, no doubt the list need a renovation, but let's not divorce Voss & Co of some responsibility here.
Seriously. Just go now.
Every time they cut to him in the coaches box he sits there looking glum and miserable.
This game looks like they haven't watched Collingwood play all season. Just blaze it long to Darcy Moore's opponent.
More importantly, there is zero accountability from the players to him. Docherty runs towards goals, ignores McKay 35m out to blaze away for a point, and he just trots off like it is no big deal.
Voss cannot coach and we are getting steadily worse and less competitive by the week. We can pull the trigger now and have a shot at the season from here. Or we can wait until the end of the year let morale get lower and lower and lose all chance of retaining our own players, let alone attracting free agents for next year.
Just go now
Every time they cut to him in the coaches box he sits there looking glum and miserable.
This game looks like they haven't watched Collingwood play all season. Just blaze it long to Darcy Moore's opponent.
More importantly, there is zero accountability from the players to him. Docherty runs towards goals, ignores McKay 35m out to blaze away for a point, and he just trots off like it is no big deal.
Voss cannot coach and we are getting steadily worse and less competitive by the week. We can pull the trigger now and have a shot at the season from here. Or we can wait until the end of the year let morale get lower and lower and lose all chance of retaining our own players, let alone attracting free agents for next year.
Just go now
Blues Clues
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100%
- Apr 4, 2018
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Confused players I guess.
- Apr 4, 2018
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Step in the right direction. He can choose his own assistants too.
- Aug 25, 2014
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Another week of forcing a team to kick down the line only to concede an uncontested mark. So infuriating.
Another week of bombing into our forward 50 and seeing Charlie start behind his opponent allowing Moore the easy mark.
Another week of seeing our smalls fly for a pack mark instead of staying down for the crumbs.
Another week of our smalls not getting to right spots or doing the fundamentals like getting front and centre at the feet of Charlie or Harry.
Another week of our midfielders racking up big numbers but doing nothing with the ball.
Another week of controlling 2.5 quarters of the game in a lot of metrics and getting ample scoring shots but getting no scoreboard impact.
Game plan if it even exists, is completely unsustainable. Impossible to keep beating teams up in the middle all game. We need to find easier avenues to goal.
Players need to improve but I stand by the fact that the coach is not making these guys better. Very few have improved under him (in fact most have gone backwards) and that’s a key indicator he’s not a great coach. We need to realise we got the coaching appointment wrong and move him on at the end of the year but I think once again we need another review because the issues run far deeper.
Edit: need more proof that game plan is important? Look at Collingwood.. how many of their players are better under Macrae compared to Buckley. Basically all of them. Have their skills improved magically. Probably not. It’s game plan. Game plan makes players better. When it’s good it instills confidence in the players. Allows them to play to strengths. Ours is making our guys worse. Our confidence has gone backwards and subsequently so too has our skills.
Another week of bombing into our forward 50 and seeing Charlie start behind his opponent allowing Moore the easy mark.
Another week of seeing our smalls fly for a pack mark instead of staying down for the crumbs.
Another week of our smalls not getting to right spots or doing the fundamentals like getting front and centre at the feet of Charlie or Harry.
Another week of our midfielders racking up big numbers but doing nothing with the ball.
Another week of controlling 2.5 quarters of the game in a lot of metrics and getting ample scoring shots but getting no scoreboard impact.
Game plan if it even exists, is completely unsustainable. Impossible to keep beating teams up in the middle all game. We need to find easier avenues to goal.
Players need to improve but I stand by the fact that the coach is not making these guys better. Very few have improved under him (in fact most have gone backwards) and that’s a key indicator he’s not a great coach. We need to realise we got the coaching appointment wrong and move him on at the end of the year but I think once again we need another review because the issues run far deeper.
Edit: need more proof that game plan is important? Look at Collingwood.. how many of their players are better under Macrae compared to Buckley. Basically all of them. Have their skills improved magically. Probably not. It’s game plan. Game plan makes players better. When it’s good it instills confidence in the players. Allows them to play to strengths. Ours is making our guys worse. Our confidence has gone backwards and subsequently so too has our skills.
Last edited:
- Sep 25, 2013
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Voss will not win a premiership with Carlton. We need to find the person who will.
However embarrassing it may be I hope we are strong enough to admit we got it wrong.
However embarrassing it may be I hope we are strong enough to admit we got it wrong.
Blue Runnings
Senior List
Club is a bottom 6 side since round 10 last year. Vossy”s game plan, if you can call it that has been found out. No plan B. Pies have a less talented list yet look at the difference, they all know their roles. At some point you think he would get over his stubbornness and pick Dow. Not that that would help, no player has a clue what they are doing.
- Sep 30, 2014
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Maybe the game plan is so crap the players aren’t invested in it.
maybe crazy vossy is to blame..
all I know is we are terrible, we don’t change gameplan, players, only positions which don’t suit the player or team. IMO.
Jatz
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- Sep 7, 2008
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His inability to change the game plan when it was obvious in the first quarter (RE: Moore) has me really concerned.
Forget the current form of the team/players, I’m talking specifically game plan during the match.
If he couldn’t see that that was a glaring problem, we have a really big problem at coach.
Forget the current form of the team/players, I’m talking specifically game plan during the match.
If he couldn’t see that that was a glaring problem, we have a really big problem at coach.
Have you seen this before?
We sack the coach
The new coach takes the shackles off.
We play well for half a season
The competition works us out.
We start losing
.The coach adds layers to the game plan
The players aren't smart enough or talented enough to absorb the plan.
We keep losing.
We sack another coach.....perhaps to break this cycle we need to look somewhere other than the senior coach
We sack the coach
The new coach takes the shackles off.
We play well for half a season
The competition works us out.
We start losing
.The coach adds layers to the game plan
The players aren't smart enough or talented enough to absorb the plan.
We keep losing.
We sack another coach.....perhaps to break this cycle we need to look somewhere other than the senior coach
- Jun 9, 2008
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The primary role of a senior coach is to extract maximum performance from their playing list.
Right now Nic Newman is the only player in our best 22 who I think Voss is getting maximum performance from. A case could be made for Cerra and Charlie Curnow but I think both have the potential to be even better. Perhaps Hollands as a first year player, and Ed Curnow because he's got nothing left to give - but that's it.
By comparison the list of best 22 players who are underperfoming is huge.. Silvagni, Motlop, Kennedy, Cripps, McKay, McGovern, DeKoning, Acers, Docherty, Walsh, Durdin, Weitering, Fisher, Hewett, Young, Saad & Owies.
Having so many players underperforming at once signals the end of a coaches career.
It's no longer a matter of if, but when.
Right now Nic Newman is the only player in our best 22 who I think Voss is getting maximum performance from. A case could be made for Cerra and Charlie Curnow but I think both have the potential to be even better. Perhaps Hollands as a first year player, and Ed Curnow because he's got nothing left to give - but that's it.
By comparison the list of best 22 players who are underperfoming is huge.. Silvagni, Motlop, Kennedy, Cripps, McKay, McGovern, DeKoning, Acers, Docherty, Walsh, Durdin, Weitering, Fisher, Hewett, Young, Saad & Owies.
Having so many players underperforming at once signals the end of a coaches career.
It's no longer a matter of if, but when.
Solution - Maximum 6 month contract- a bold 'new coach bounce ' innovation to take the league by storm.
