Coach Michael Voss

[SkyhorseTamer]

In our 22 years of ineptitude, this has mever happened. We have only three times in that entire span lost 5 straight by 20+ points (in 2003 and 2005 and 2007 - the last led to Pagan's sacking) but in all of those streaks we were at least able to kick a score. We have once (i think) gone 5 straight weeks under 75 (under Bolton) but we won a mat h in there.

This is.... Wow. . Saddening

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

To put something here in perspective:

Lets forget the West Coast game. They are in unique circumstances due to injury and are essentially a bye at this point - they just lost to 17th by 116 points.


remove that match and we have now lost 5 matches in a row by more than 20 points, and have not scored 75 points in any of those matches.

In our 22 years of ineptitude, this has mever happened. We have only three times in that entire span lost 5 straight by 20+ points (in 2003 and 2005 and 2007 - the last led to Pagan's sacking) but in all of those streaks we were at least able to kick a score. We have once (i think) gone 5 straight weeks under 75 (under Bolton) but we won a mat h in there.

Bluntly, our current performance is arguably as bleak as anything we have seen. This is a rare combination of being uncompetitive and boring. We haven't had the 100 pt losses of the past but the stands are emptying nonetheless.

And this is with a team stacked with good players in its prime. Pagan and Bolton were dealing with youngsters and teams scraped together from the recycling bin.

Second reply to you. Sorry. Just wanted to add no list with our top end is this bad. That is a culture / admin/ attitude / setup etc etc etc failure

 

[Blue1980]

Pre-season everyone is up and about thinking positively. It was bitterly disappointing to see the team miss out on finals by the barest of margins at the end- playing very strong football with a depleted midfield so naturally high expectations.

Then the pre-season injuries hit very late - and the improvement that was going to happen on top of existing players took a hit. People forget even half decent role players like Cottrell/Boyd have been out as well as Williams and Cuningham got put out by one of our own ...etc etc..but the biggies were Walsh/Hewett and Kennedy not having pre-seasons that was 3 of the fab five under the gun all recovering from very serious injury

Continuity mate it is everything to a team under a new coach...

but back to the list - simple benchmark is pick a top performing team and put the players at Carlton that would replace their players...simple exercise to do against any opposition..

Which is why 'entitled' expectations are an insult to the Club and players and coach - entitlement ignores reality and also takes for granted way too much.

Just my view - I understand it stands at ods with the view on here that says Voss is hopeless and clueless That is an easy call to make - it is the same call Carlton supporters have been making on every coach since Parkin.

Good post and I think a factor in the terrible to watch game plan, as we don’t think our players on the back of injury interrupted pre seasons can play like a pies, port etc.

 

[btdg]

Why would Choco or any other good assistant coach come to Carlton, it’s the place that coaches come to die.

But agree Voss has some strengths just needs some help with his weaknesses.

For the same reason Pagan and Malthouse did, and why Judd came here and why Cripps and Charlie wanted to stay.

Whoever turns this around will be an immediate immortal of the game - on the pedestal with Ron Barassi, Allan Jeans, Leigh Matthews etc.

It is a high risk gamble, moreso than any other job, but for someone who has everything already it is the holy grail.

Don’t know but if they were as shite as we are, we are a chance then.

But in all seriousness I believe stick with Voss as the players are still giving good effort and is a great leader, just need some very good tactical assistant coaches to help with game plan and the inside 50 connect.

Did you think that was good effort from the players?

To me they seem so frozen, lacking in confidence and paralysed by fear. The first quarter... it was almost like they needed to get 5 goals down to invest a little bit.

 

[Blue1980]

after losing the gf by a kick in one of the greatest games ever played (ablett 9?) in 1989, they continued to make finals and gfs and continued to lose them - it wasn't until the stars aligned with coach, admin, f/sons, free trade and steven wells drafting and trading (this took a good 8 years to consolidate) that they finally broke through in 07 after a 45 year drought..........they were pretty insignificant for a long, long time...........

Insignificant making GFs, compared to what we are doing that is pretty significant.

But I think being relevant was more from 2004 onwards (missed finals only twice, top 4 a dozen times).

 

[Blue1980]

He’ll survive.. unfortunately this time we’ll keep backing him for 8-9 years till or if it clicks….we might get a peep from our board and team citing unity and stuff.

No, I think there are 2 scenarios which would see him gone pre contract end of 2024:

1. We are really really bad the rest of the year causing some sort of player mutiny.

2. The more likely one, he is given early next season and if we are struggling similarly he will be moved on or he will “resign”.

 

[Blue1980]

Which was a massive overachievement. If anything, Voss should get extra credit for getting this list that close. Even with a terrible list, 2022 was still a noticeably large improvement over Teague's last year.

Of course, angry supporters only ever like to view things in a certain way.

Bloody Rutten made the 8 with Essendon in 2021, still didn’t stop them sacking him last year.

Most sides can have a year they challenge for the 8 if the stars align.

 

[Blue By Blood]

Voss is a dead man walking. He wont change, he cant change. What you see now is what you get. The lack of innovation, the confusion on field, the selfish nihlistic coaching - dont lose by too much but dont take the game on.
I hate saying it but better to lose the next 3 and make it clear to everyone that his plan failed. So sad, another trashed year.

I don’t think you have to worry about us losing the next three games because with the current game plan that’s highly likely. And it’s sucks having fallen into negative thinking again. Even when we play well teams are still in games up to their necks against us. The game plan just isn’t conducive to putting teams away because it relies on 4 quarters of brutal contested ball winning. If the game plan was attractive and we were at least trending upwards in some facets it would be somewhat palatable but when we can see the quality on the list and have had it rammed down our throat by our president and the media that we have a finals list, it’s simply not acceptable to be dishing up what we are. Someone has to fall on the sword. Coach and those who ticked off his signing. Or players get whacked and we accept that we need to rejig/rebuild again.

Sydney off a 5 day break. Likely loss. Probably our most winnable game in this mini block as it’s at a small ground that favours our contested game. But.. 5 day break and our low confidence makes this 50/50 at best.

Melbourne. Definitely don’t start favourites.

Essendon. Winnable but our form would have to turn and I’d say this is 50/50.

After that is Gold Coast who have had our number in recent times.

 

[Beyond Blue]

No game plan cannot sustain players not being able to execute basic kick and handballs skills and making dumb decisions with and without the ball so that is not Voss’ fault. What is Voss’ fault is persisting with failed concepts like SOS in the ruck against teams with 2 genuine rucks and Ed Curnow to play run with roles he can no longer perform.That all said we can’t keep sacking coaches.

The common denominator is the players. How many coaches have these blokes had? I’d actually prefer it if we kept Voss, surrounded him with a senior assistant who has coached a AFL team and trade Cripps. I can’t believe I’m saying this as he has been such a great servant of the club but the reality is of all better players he is the most expendable due to his age and the position he plays.

Edit: I just heard his post match presser and he talked about “nourishment” again. Sakc Voss Monday.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Voss won't be sacked this season and nor should he be.

The club needs a mini rebuild within a rebuild

The likes of De Koning, Silvagni, Dow, Fisher, LOB etc will be moved on at the end of the season (and rightfully so)

Try get 5 picks (or so) in the top 30 of this year's superdraft and reload from there.

Voss deserves to have a team that he can mould and create in his own image, not conditional coach killer types

 

[RattAttack]

Post Teague we were adamant we wanted a coach with senior experience.

Clarko was our primary target. He said no.

Ross was option two but obviously he didn’t appease everyone on the Board so we moved on.

Voss was the only candidate left that had senior coaching experience, so the job was his.

Voss did a ‘Bradbury’…last man standing. One of the knocks on him at Brisbane was his connection with the players. He’s worked hard since then on that area and by all accounts is a ‘motivational’ type coach. But that means nothing without tactical footy smarts.

Pretty simple now - we keep performing like this, we finish 12th/13th and he’s done. No way we will accept that.

But sadly this is not all on Vossy. The players look shot. Something isn’t right. From the outside we will never know. We may not be Collingwood or Brisbane, but we’re not a 12th/13th side. Too many of our important players are so down on form. All above the shoulders maybe…

So frustrating.

 

[Blue1980]

Voss won't be sacked this season and nor should he be.

The club needs a mini rebuild within a rebuild

The likes of De Koning, Silvagni, Dow, Fisher, LOB etc will be moved on at the end of the season (and rightfully so)

Try get 5 picks (or so) in the top 30 of this year's superdraft and reload from there.

Voss deserves to have a team that he can mould and create in his own image, not conditional coach killer types

Will be tuhg to move on Fisher and LOB considering they are contracted beyond this year, who would want them, let alone turning either of them into a pick in the top 30?

 

[Blue By Blood]

Voss won't be sacked this season and nor should he be.

The club needs a mini rebuild within a rebuild

The likes of De Koning, Silvagni, Dow, Fisher, LOB etc will be moved on at the end of the season (and rightfully so)

Try get 5 picks (or so) in the top 30 of this year's superdraft and reload from there.

Voss deserves to have a team that he can mould and create in his own image, not conditional coach killer types

Respectfully disagree. If things continue as they are he will be moved on at the end of the year.

Players are looking, at least to my eye, like they’ve lost confidence in the game plan. Once that happens there’s almost no recovery for the coach. If the players then don’t want the coach and it shows in their performance.. it becomes untenable to keep him. I heard someone say to half time 12 of our players hadn’t laid a single tackle.. not the sign of a group that’s behind the coach. You can’t move on an entire list of players so the coach gets the chop. If that happens hopefully we actually learn from past mistakes and have a genuinely proper coaching selection panel, a proper review of the board and it’s processes, a clean out of players. Things need to be different.

With the players you’ve mentioned, how do we manufacture 5 top 30 picks. And if it’s such a strong draft what clubs are going to want to give up their picks? Like you I’d love us to get in some high quality talent but I don’t see how we can with our current assets.

 

[Accidental genius]

No Voss gloss doesn’t dazzle. I don’t think he is going to be able to do much more than what’s he’s shown to date. Probably will get worse.

Was a great player but coaching just isn’t for him it seems.

I think it was a mistake to hire him. But I’m not sure we had much to choice apart from maybe Lyon.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Respectfully disagree. If things continue as they are he will be moved on at the end of the year.

Players are looking, at least to my eye, like they’ve lost confidence in the game plan. Once that happens there’s almost no recovery for the coach. If the players then don’t want the coach and it shows in their performance.. it becomes untenable to keep him. You can’t move on an entire list of players so the coach gets the chop. If that happens hopefully we actually learn from past mistakes and have a genuinely proper coaching selection panel, a proper review of the board and it’s processes, a clean out of players. Things need to be different.

With the players you’ve mentioned, how do we manufacture 5 top 30 picks. And if it’s such a strong draft what clubs are going to want to give up their picks? Like you I’d love us to get in some high quality talent but I don’t see how we can with our current assets.

De Koning should get us a couple of picks in the 20s

I wouldn't mind us using our future 2nd round pick or split ours this season to try get more picks in the top 30 (ish range)

It can be done if we get creative

 

[jackn]

Presser question- what can you do to reduce Darcy Moores influence on the game?

Voss- giggles and guffaws "you go after one and you conceded the other, you know, we went after daicos".

What sort of idiot honestly thinks that they're linked? Kicking the ball time after time to the best intercept mark in the comp, is caused by trying to tag a wing? Ffs he's clearly not smart, if we don't get some brains to help him it's going to be another 3 years down the drain.

 

[smashbox gill]

Respectfully disagree. If things continue as they are he will be moved on at the end of the year.

Players are looking, at least to my eye, like they’ve lost confidence in the game plan. Once that happens there’s almost no recovery for the coach. If the players then don’t want the coach and it shows in their performance.. it becomes untenable to keep him. I heard someone say to half time 12 of our players hadn’t laid a single tackle.. not the sign of a group that’s behind the coach. You can’t move on an entire list of players so the coach gets the chop. If that happens hopefully we actually learn from past mistakes and have a genuinely proper coaching selection panel, a proper review of the board and it’s processes, a clean out of players. Things need to be different.

With the players you’ve mentioned, how do we manufacture 5 top 30 picks. And if it’s such a strong draft what clubs are going to want to give up their picks? Like you I’d love us to get in some high quality talent but I don’t see how we can with our current assets.

 

[4thchicken]

Somewhat interesting to watch vfl and afl games back to back - in both games, ball movement was poor/slow, and we constantly bombed to position - often directly to uncontested opposition marks in the f50.

This is a coaching/structure issue - will be interesting to see how long Voss can last if there are no drastic changes to game style.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Damien Hardwock struggled in his first few years coaching Richmond.

It's a poor sign of a club culture and player development and continuity if we keep sacking coaches every 2 or 3 years.

It also starts with lowering massive hopes and expectations about the capabilities of our playing list.

More than anything else, the playing group and young players need stability and continuity.

We are not winning a flag in the next 3 years or so (let's be brutally honest about it) so what is the point sacking Voss and Rinse and Repeat by 2026 talking about sacking Vossy's replacement.

 

[FRUMPY]

Presser question- what can you do to reduce Darcy Moores influence on the game?

Voss- giggles and guffaws "you go after one and you conceded the other, you know, we went after daicos".

What sort of idiot honestly thinks that they're linked? Kicking the ball time after time to the best intercept mark in the comp, is caused by trying to tag a wing? Ffs he's clearly not smart, if we don't get some brains to help him it's going to be another 3 years down the drain.

Exactly, its not as if the pies play through Moore, he's a key back ffs. We just kept kicking it to him. His job is to come up with a plan to stop his players from kicking it to their dominating Backman.

On CPH2005 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[RAPPA]

De Koning should get us a couple of picks in the 20s

I wouldn't mind us using our future 2nd round pick or split ours this season to try get more picks in the top 30 (ish range)

It can be done if we get creative

If we are getting two picks in the 20s TDK - for a player that cannot break into a side that has a statue first ruck and a horrendous second ruck option - then we’re giving up some additional collateral.

TDK will only yield a single pick in the 20s.

For us to get the remaining picks, we can’t be under the illusion that we can give up BOG average players for second round picks.

 

[JrDr]

Question for the Voss defenders. What has he shown that makes him a good coach? Why persist with someone who is not up to it. Is it just to pretend that we are a stable club. It's not fooling anyone and I would rather admit the hard truth and find a coach who can get the best out of the talented list that we have put together. If we go full rebuild do we really want Voss in charge?

 

[Arr0w]

Question for the Voss defenders. What has he shown that makes him a good coach? Why persist with someone who is not up to it. Is it just to pretend that we are a stable club. It's not fooling anyone and I would rather admit the hard truth and find a coach who can get the best out of the talented list that we have put together. If we go full rebuild do we really want Voss in charge?

Don't be fooled, this list is far from being in contending mode, although it should be a 13-15 win list

 

[GT619]

Don't be fooled, this list is far from being in contending mode, although it should be a 13-15 win list

What do you think the problems are

 

[The Fantom]

Question for the Voss defenders. What has he shown that makes him a good coach? Why persist with someone who is not up to it. Is it just to pretend that we are a stable club. It's not fooling anyone and I would rather admit the hard truth and find a coach who can get the best out of the talented list that we have put together. If we go full rebuild do we really want Voss in charge?

This club won’t stay stable if we keep losing.

What I’m struggling to understand, is it the players that are shite or the coach?

I’m just dumbfounded by the way we are playing.

Never thought I’d say this but I need a break from the footy, not sure why I invest so much into something that just keeps disappointing me.