Mitch McGovern 2: As The Worm Turns (read the OP)

[BunjiMC]

Find a way to keep them.

We have made one grand final since 1998 - which we lost by 50 points. Last year we didn't make the finals. In the last 10 years since we have had so many quality players we have made two prelims.

If you were talking about Sydney, West Coast, or Hawthorn - I could stomach it.

You just named three clubs that do exactly what we have done. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[jo172]

But we aren't always near the cap. The same year we were trying to keep Danger - we had a multi million dollar offer out to Cameron.

Not saying that this is wrong. Our Salary Cap structuring may be a part of our lack of being able to keep required players. I think its more culture based.

I've also had a theory that once you have a culture where blokes leaving becomes the norm it becomes more culturally permissible to be the next bloke to leave. That is, the first player/couple of players carry around a negative social stigma for their perceived lack of loyalty to the group. This stigma lessens and lessens with each player that leaves.

It's a bit like the broken window theory.

How you get the genie back in the bottle is a bit of a mystery (short of focusing drafting heavily on locals)

 

[GROTTO]

I have one possible solution to the AFL fighting back and making Clubs and players more accountable in terms of salary and player movements being way too frequent and easy.

Lets have complete transparency, I for one would love to know how some Clubs are managing to fit all their "star" players inside the salary cap.

I mean the AFLPA has truly f**ked the AFL over in terms of player movement, at least this way we can truly identify if greed is an issue or culture.

 

[WAG]

It’s dollars for sure (well apart from Danger) but surely there’s a bit of Adelaide the city in there as well. It’s why we have never attracted a big fish that hadn’t already had some sort of Adelaide connection.

It’s been said before, but if you’re in your twenties with 400K+ in your pocket, why would you choose to live in Adelaide if you have the opportunity to live in Melb with 500K in your pocket, or even Bris ffs.

 

[GreyCrow]

I have one possible solution to the AFL fighting back and making Clubs and players more accountable in terms of salary and player movements being way too frequent and easy.

Lets have complete transparency, I for one would love to know how some Clubs are managing to fit all their "star" players inside the salary cap.

I mean the AFLPA has truly f**ked the AFL over in terms of player movement, at least this way we can truly identify if greed is an issue or culture.

Thats 1

Your last line is the heart of the matter. 2 things need to happen.
The AFLPA need to back off and the AFL need to penalise clubs that induce players to break a contract.
Managers should also be open and transparent

 

[Betts are off]

No - I get the realities of the AFL landscape.

Do me a favor and name me some clubs that have lost the quality we have? Do I have to repeat the names?

As much as playing your little game sounds like fun, the point which you are so desperate to completely miss over and over and over is that every team loses players and every team gains players, and quality is a irrelevant if the return is met or the team is able to function better with those resources allocated better. So even if I listed the other teams it means nothing because i'm not listing what they gt in return, or what that roster spot and $$ allocation allowed those teams too do.

If we kept Tippet on $900k, Danger on $1M+, Bock on $850K, Davis on $750K how do you honestly think we would be as a playing group would look right now?
If we forced miserably homesick guys like Gunstan too stay would that be good for the lockerroom?
If we caved to money hungry 2 and 3 year players would that make our further contract negotiations of young stars easier or harder?

As desperate as you are to have a bandaid response to this exceptionally complex scenario, there isn't one.

 

[GROTTO]

Thats 1

Your last line is the heart of the matter. 2 things need to happen.
The AFLPA need to back off and the AFL need to penalise clubs that induce players to break a contract.
Managers should also be open and transparent

FFS youre right.

I think penalties need to be be invoked if a Club or Player breaks an AFL contract.

I feel for the kids to be honest. Back in the day when a kid wore the big 32 on his back for Roo or 23 for McLeod it meant something as that player you knew was committed forever to the Club. These days, it means the player stays only until more money is being offered elsewhere.

Player loyalty is a relic from a past that is obsolete. The love of the jumper is gone forever.

 

[Golumless]

With Gov leaving with 2 years still go on his contract, Im just wandering what is the benefit of signing players on multi year deals?

If they want to go, they go. If they want to stay, they stay.

I think the AFLPA has f**ked the AFL with the freedom it has given to players.

Control. If you have to lose a player, the best time to do it is when he's contracted as the club has the ability to walk away.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Control. If you have to lose a player, the best time to do it is when he's contracted as the club has the ability to walk away.

Maybe but take the case of MM, Beames or Kelly. They nominate a club they want to go to and this restricts what a club can get for them. We may have receive much better for MM if say we could have dealt with Freo .

 

[CrowBloke]

Those three are/will be expensive losses.

I was extremely disappointed when Danger left; yes, was sure he'd win a Brownlow but hoped it would be in Crows colours. However, it cost him playing in the 2017 GF and that's a shared loss, his and ours.
Lever , McGovern , meh --- Doedee has been an excellent cover for Lever and will only get better. Lever has done a knee and players rarely come back as good, afterwards. He was a disruptive influence (like Gov) and put his personal cravings (money) above the Club and his teammates (like Gov).
They both wanted to go, as did Cameron. Let them go, I say. No worries. De-stabilise your new Clubs.
Posters in here who've been melting at the AFC for losing those players have overlooked the fact that we've retained many more, and better, players than we've lost (18 re-signings this year alone!) and I'll back their judgment of the Club and its 'culture' over money-grubbers like Lever and Gov, any day.

P.S. Melbourne was/is on the rise, but Gov going to Carlton because he's lost faith in the "direction" the Crows are going is laughable. Gov, the Crows are going UP, just watch. Of Course, Carlton can only go one way, and if they win 6 more games in 2019 they might even finish
uh
13th or 14th.

 

[Golumless]

Maybe but take the case of MM, Beames or Kelly. They nominate a club they want to go to and this restricts what a club can get for them. We may have receive much better for MM if say we could have dealt with Freo .

It's more that you are able to retain such a player if you don't want to deal, moreso then stopping a nomination.

We may have done somewhat better, but that could have been a worse situation if Freo was getting Hogan this year.

 

[CrowBloke]

But he signed for 3 years just over 12 months ago. Clearly it wasn't a meaningful issue then. Did his relationship with Pyke turn sour? Over what?

If I had to guess, it'd be about Gov's unhappiness with the $s he (and his agent) agreed to when he re-signed.
Or possibly about Gov's non-selection for the GF ...?

It'll all come out one day.

 

[marvin]

So to summarize your argument:

Adelaide loses - Bock, Gunston, Tippett, Dangerfield, Davis, Lever, Cameron and McGovern.

Collingwood, Sydney, West Coast and Hawthorn COMBINED lose - Brad Hill, Franklin, Hannebery, Mitchell, Jetta, Beams, Fasolo, Lycett.

We lose 8 stars and required players. 4 teams you listed COMBINED lose 8 stars and required players.

Over the same time period, you've omitted Campbell Brown, Brad Ebert, Daisy Thomas, Shane Mumford, Heath Shaw, Nick Malceski, Heritier Lumumba, Scott Selwood, Matt Suckling...

 

[CrowBloke]

Sounds too much like the quote: "If you run into an arseh*le in the morning, you ran into an arseh*le. If you run into assholes all day, you're the arseh*le."

Liked this, a lot; loved it . Going to use it often and without giving you any credit for it .

However, not sure what you're saying in the rest of it. The players quoted go back a long way and I disagree with this:

Its the club. There is something toxic from the top down.

because it overlooks the many more players who have stayed with the Crows.
Re-signings like Sloane, Laird, Doedee and several other top players say much more that's positive than the grumblings from those who have left.

 

[marvin]

I’m worried the wheel will turn at some point

Cripps Setterfield Fisher Dow SPS is a good mix

Weitering Marchbank Plowman

Curnow McKay Gov forward

It’s on its way to improving but still need more

Not too worried. Statistically, any group of 10 young players is likely to see 2-3 that either never kick on as projected, or suffer a serious enough injury that they don't recapture what they could have been. Setterfield may well fall into one of those camps, even if he makes it to Carlton - only 2 games on the clock and a big injury already.

On a tangent, I always get Marchbank and Plowman mixed up and I get the feeling one of them isn't very good, but I can't work out which one.

 

[CrowBloke]

A mate of mine has met him a few times. Massive tickets on himself.

Yes!! ... I have a friend of a friend of a friend's second cousin's ex-boyfriend's uncle knows that too, for a fact.

 

[BunjiMC]

Over the same time period, you've omitted Campbell Brown, Brad Ebert, Daisy Thomas, Shane Mumford, Heath Shaw, Nick Malceski, Heritier Lumumba, Scott Selwood, Matt Suckling...

Chris Judd.. this guy's on fire....

 

[ad victoriam]

Adelaide loses - Bock, Gunston, Tippett, Dangerfield, Davis, Lever, Cameron and McGovern.

Collingwood, Sydney, West Coast and Hawthorn COMBINED lose - Brad Hill, Franklin, Hannebery, Mitchell, Jetta, Beams, Fasolo, Lycett.

We lose 8 stars and required players. 4 teams you listed COMBINED lose 8 stars and required players.

But we don't have a problem with player retention. Nope - everyone acknowledges except for good old Carmo. We are just the only club to draft money hungry twats.

Hope your ass doesn't get too sun burnt this summer considering it looks like you will be keeping your head in the sand.

Missed a few names on the combined list.
Collingwood - Thomas, Shaw, Wellingham, Dawes, Lumumba, Cloke, Brown, Seedsman
Sydney - Munford, White, Malceski, Membrey, Nankeris,
Hawthorn - Ellis, Suckling, Anderson, Lewis,
West Coast -Lynch, Stevens, Rosa, Judd

All teams are losing players but it really easy to remember the Crows players as they are burnt into our memories.

All Bold names are added after initial post.

 

[DangerSloane]

Maybe we lose quality players because we have so many quality players. Our drafting is elite. We have lost all those players and are still pushing for a flag.

What else could we do??

Very good point.
Pay guys like Lever and McGovern top dollar and thats how you end up being a basket case.

Sure we'd love to have kept guys like Dangerfield, but every club has people that leave.

Its conveniently forgotten how many good players left sydney/hawthorn over that era.

 

[DangerSloane]

Missed a few names on the combined list.
Collingwood - Thomas, Shaw, Wellingham, Dawes, Lumumba, Cloke, Brown
Sydney - Munford, White, Malceski, Membrey, Nankeris,
Hawthorn - Ellis, Suckling, Anderson, Lewis,
West Coast -Lynch, Stevens, Rosa,

All teams are losing players but it really easy to remember the Crows players as they are burnt into our memories.

Add Judd to the West Coast one.

 

[Horseflee]

Not to plan but not to worry, still time to do better than PA

Shiel was a huge surprise

Not over YET

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[exit]

Not to plan but not to worry, still time to do better than PA

Shiel was a huge surprise

Not over YET

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

I've never seen anyone say so much without actually saying anything.

 

[DangerSloane]

I've never seen anyone say so much without actually saying anything.

You've never watched any kind of TV show devoted to AFL or any kinda player interview?

 

[exit]

You've never watched any kind of TV show devoted to AFL or any kinda player interview?

No

 

[Samcro24]

Not to plan but not to worry, still time to do better than PA

Shiel was a huge surprise

Not over YET

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

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