Traded Mitch McGovern [traded to Carlton in a three-way trade involving Sydney and McAdam]

[Brighton_Diggins]

I agree with the comment about CEY. He's a decent player and a big-bodied mid. Carlton (foolishly) turned down Lyons though so maybe they don't go for that.

Yeah nah. junk.. what else ya got?

 

[james Dean]

Of course Adelaide will play hardball. Anybody who thought otherwise is an idiot.

I could see this trade not going through. It all hinges on Carlton's ability to package up their second rounders/mature agers. In a normal draft this wouldn't be too difficult but rumours are that the top-end of this draft is very strong and teams might not be so keen on giving up picks in the first round.

Define hardball? Rejecting pick 24 is fair enough, but if you're going to reject 24+25 which could easily be upgraded to a pick in the teens, then Adelaide are being unreasonable.

If Adelaide are hoping that Carlton are going to cave and trade pick 1, or include pick 1 in any deal, they are going to be disappointed.

 

[When I Crow Up]

Define hardball? Rejecting pick 24 is fair enough, but if you're going to reject 24+25 which could easily be upgraded to a pick in the teens, then Adelaide are being unreasonable.

If Adelaide are hoping that Carlton are going to cave and trade pick 1, or include pick 1 in any deal, they are going to be disappointed.

I think it's the other way around. Carlton will miss out on the first player from a starting 22 to nominate your club in a long time. Crows know what McGovern is and are very comfortable to keep him so you either pay or you don't. And based on the afl.com article it appears crows and carlton are a long way apart on what they feel is reasonable compensation, so unless Carlton figure out a better offer then Mitch will stay with crows and we can look forward to him doing this to you guys next season.

 

[bates121]

Define hardball? Rejecting pick 24 is fair enough, but if you're going to reject 24+25 which could easily be upgraded to a pick in the teens, then Adelaide are being unreasonable.

If Adelaide are hoping that Carlton are going to cave and trade pick 1, or include pick 1 in any deal, they are going to be disappointed.

Don't think any realistic crows supporters think pick 1 is on the table for MM.
Also why do we need to do the dirty work turning 24+25 into something that we want, surely that's on the Blues to work out and come back with the pick in the teens.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Define hardball? Rejecting pick 24 is fair enough, but if you're going to reject 24+25 which could easily be upgraded to a pick in the teens, then Adelaide are being unreasonable.

If Adelaide are hoping that Carlton are going to cave and trade pick 1, or include pick 1 in any deal, they are going to be disappointed.

Thats fine... but its not up to adelaide to ugrade those picks, its up to carlton.

 

[When I Crow Up]

Don't think any realistic crows supporters think pick 1 is on the table for MM.
Also why do we need to do the dirty work turning 24+25 into something that we want, surely that's on the Blues to work out and come back with the pick in the teens.

Personally I'd much prefer to keep him if we don't get an offer that's too good to refuse. I think he lost his two best mates and his development coach + had injuries + the media attention from the preseason camp + the crows not winning didn't add up to a happy year for him. He's a young player and was likely frustrated with not winning and not having those people around him would've likely sucked. If he stays and the crows bounce back which I think they will I wouldn't be surprised if he starts really enjoying his footy again and remembers the reasons why he re-signed in the first place.

 

[bates121]

Personally I'd much prefer to keep him if we don't get an offer that's too good to refuse. I think he lost his two best mates and his development coach + had injuries + the media attention from the preseason camp + the crows not winning didn't add up to a happy year for him. He's a young player and was likely frustrated with not winning and not having those people around him would've likely sucked. If he stays and the crows bounce back which I think they will I wouldn't be surprised if he starts really enjoying his footy again and remembers the reasons why he re-signed in the first place.

What is to good to refuse thou? Pick one is not happening, neither is two first rounders.
For me if we got a pick inside the 10 i'd happily walk MM out the door. 10-13 is probably value where it sits. anything less and i would take the chance on keeping him.
IMO this one is a long way down the rabbit hole to suggest if we keep him things will turn around and he doesn't want out again next year.

 

[When I Crow Up]

What is to good to refuse thou? Pick one is not happening, neither is two first rounders.
For me if we got a pick inside the 10 i'd happily walk MM out the door. 10-13 is probably value where it sits. anything less and i would take the chance on keeping him.
IMO this one is a long way down the rabbit hole to suggest if we keep him things will turn around and he doesn't want out again next year.

If he wants out next year then we're in exactly the same place minus one year off his 3 year contract. Just like Carlton did with Gibbs, you hold them, play them and hope they change their mind. There's a lot of factors that would influence the mind of a 23 year old that's gone from school straight to a foreign state to play, made a couple of close friends then lost those friends and the guy that developed him. I think we expect a lot from young players, including them to be super professional and able to cope with anything and it's just not the case. Give him the right support and who knows. Worst case we're back where we started and given that both he and the crows had a down year his worth will in all likelihood go up.

I feel both their seconds and a swap of first round picks, maybe throw in our second next year would be too good to refuse. We won't get their number one unless they can get Shiel with it too, so if we can get their first next year for ours that would be a huge boon. Like I've said, I think Carlton need to bite the bullet and stop looking to the draft and start getting mature players in to teach structure and bring culture for their young players.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Define hardball? Rejecting pick 24 is fair enough, but if you're going to reject 24+25 which could easily be upgraded to a pick in the teens, then Adelaide are being unreasonable.

If Adelaide are hoping that Carlton are going to cave and trade pick 1, or include pick 1 in any deal, they are going to be disappointed.

I mean it's Carlton's responsibility to upgrade those picks, not Adelaide's. It might not be "easy" either. Depends on how much clubs value their first rounders for this particular draft.

I don't think Adelaide would get pick 1 so I don't know why you brought that up.

 

[evo]

Have seen it mentioned Richmond might be swapping our pick 17 for Carltons two mid 20s picks to facillitate the McLovin deal.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Have seen it mentioned Richmond might be swapping our pick 17 for Carltons two mid 20s picks to facillitate the McLovin deal.

Makes sense imo. You've already got your marquee signing with Lynch. I think Richmond would benefit more from a quantity of picks in a deep draft, than just pick 17.

 

[Cactus_]

Adelaide might get a bit of revenge for the Gibbs business here. SOS himself said you’ve got to pay overs for contracted players. Add a bit extra on top of that for lack of good faith from the Blues in the Gibbs negotiations.

 

[When I Crow Up]

Makes sense imo. You've already got your marquee signing with Lynch. I think Richmond would benefit more from a quantity of picks in a deep draft, than just pick 17.

Yeah but after the GC compo pick that is as late a first rounder as they come, and I'm not at all convinced that that will get the deal done, we might as well take both their seconds if that was the offer. Those 2 seconds are worth the equivalent of pick 10 so Richmond would love that deal though!

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Yeah but after the GC compo pick that is as late a first rounder as they come, and I'm not at all convinced that that will get the deal done, we might as well take both their seconds if that was the offer. Those 2 seconds are worth the equivalent of pick 10 so Richmond would love that deal though!

I'm no expert but I wouldn't have thought pick 24+25 would equal a pick 10 in this draft. Isn't the top end supposed to be really good?

Adelaide might get a bit of revenge for the Gibbs business here. SOS himself said you’ve got to pay overs for contracted players. Add a bit extra on top of that for lack of good faith from the Blues in the Gibbs negotiations.

That SOS quote has aged like fine wine but I doubt we add a bit extra on. Crows will try to get this trade done quickly and probably don't want it to drag into the 11th hour.

 

[When I Crow Up]

I'm no expert but I wouldn't have thought pick 24+25 would equal a pick 10 in this draft. Isn't the top end supposed to be really good?

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/biddingsystemfeedback.pdf Based on the point system it's the equivalent of pick 10 or thereabouts. Obviously you normally pay overs to trade up so in reality it's probably closer to pick 12-13ish.

 

[When I Crow Up]

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/biddingsystemfeedback.pdf Based on the point system it's the equivalent of pick 10 or thereabouts. Obviously you normally pay overs to trade up so in reality it's probably closer to pick 12-13ish.

 

[Doro]

Have seen it mentioned Richmond might be swapping our pick 17 for Carltons two mid 20s picks to facillitate the McLovin deal.

No value in that trade for Carlton.

Adelaide might get a bit of revenge for the Gibbs business here. SOS himself said you’ve got to pay overs for contracted players. Add a bit extra on top of that for lack of good faith from the Blues in the Gibbs negotiations.

The Gibbs trade went nowhere in the first year because Reid was green and bungled it, with the influence of a Crows board member. McGovern will get traded for something that aligns with his statistical achievements to date. Around the 20 mark.

 

[When I Crow Up]

No value in that trade for Carlton.

The value is that they get a first rounder which may satisfy the crows for McGovern but I think that's unlikely to get the deal done.

The Gibbs trade went nowhere in the first year because Reid was green and bungled it, with the influence of a Crows board member. McGovern will get traded for something that aligns with his statistical achievements to date. Around the 20 mark.

It didn't get done because the crows were confident in their midfield and didn't feel that Gibbs was quite worth 2 first rounders. After losing the GF, our position changed and we paid Carltons asking price. Had nothing to do with Reid being green. And Crows have already rejected both Carltons second rounders, being 24 and 25 so if Carlton want him then you need to do a lot better than that.

 

[Doro]

It didn't get done because the crows were confident in their midfield and didn't feel that Gibbs was quite worth 2 first rounders. After losing the GF, our position changed and we paid Carltons asking price. Had nothing to do with Reid being green. And Crows have already rejected both Carltons second rounders, being 24 and 25 so if Carlton want him then you need to do a lot better than that.

Reid tried the cowboy tactics and destroyed what had been a good trading relationship until that point. Nothing has been rejected as trade period hasn't begun. Just a lot of hot air on the net. McGovern will be traded for his value.

 

[1990crow]

Reid tried the cowboy tactics and destroyed what had been a good trading relationship until that point. Nothing has been rejected as trade period hasn't begun. Just a lot of hot air on the net. McGovern will be traded for his value.

Correct. The value that the AFC have set him at.

 

[When I Crow Up]

Reid tried the cowboy tactics and destroyed what had been a good trading relationship until that point. Nothing has been rejected as trade period hasn't begun. Just a lot of hot air on the net. McGovern will be traded for his value.

Is that right? Cowboy tactics? Because Bryce Gibbs' manager said this after the 2016 trade failed...
Gibbs' manager Nigel Carmody, of TLA the player management company owned by Kelly, admitted his client was disappointed not to be traded but understood as a contracted player the trade had to be agreed.

"Yeah he is [disappointed with Carlton]," Carmody said. "He was really honest with them and we also think that the deal that Adelaide put forward was more than fair and reasonable, particularly in comparison with some of the other deals that have been done during the trade period looked like."

So in other words, Carlton were unreasonable.... Oh and just to add to that...

Carlton head of football Andrew McKay said that contracts in football should be honoured

"It does seem that they're not worth as much as they once were, contracts," McKay said. "I think it's really important that people understand that clubs desire that players play out their contracts.

"Players sign a contract and we believe that they should see that out."

 

[1990crow]

Is that right? Cowboy tactics? Because Bryce Gibbs' manager said this after the 2016 trade failed...
Gibbs' manager Nigel Carmody, of TLA the player management company owned by Kelly, admitted his client was disappointed not to be traded but understood as a contracted player the trade had to be agreed.

"Yeah he is [disappointed with Carlton]," Carmody said. "He was really honest with them and we also think that the deal that Adelaide put forward was more than fair and reasonable, particularly in comparison with some of the other deals that have been done during the trade period looked like."

So in other words, Carlton were unreasonable....

Good find. Pretty much kills any Carlton argument that Carlton were reasonable and that AFC don’t get to set an unreasonable price.

 

[When I Crow Up]

Good find. Pretty much kills any Carlton argument that Carlton were reasonable and that AFC don’t get to set an unreasonable price.

Gota love google - https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...aide-trade-falls-through-20161020-gs6v0p.html

 

[Doro]

Correct. The value that the AFC have set him at.

No statistical value. Crow valuations tend to be a little lopsided.

Is that right? Cowboy tactics? Because Bryce Gibbs' manager said this after the 2016 trade failed...
Gibbs' manager Nigel Carmody, of TLA the player management company owned by Kelly, admitted his client was disappointed not to be traded but understood as a contracted player the trade had to be agreed.

"Yeah he is [disappointed with Carlton]," Carmody said. "He was really honest with them and we also think that the deal that Adelaide put forward was more than fair and reasonable, particularly in comparison with some of the other deals that have been done during the trade period looked like."

So in other words, Carlton were unreasonable.... Oh and just to add to that...

Carlton head of football Andrew McKay said that contracts in football should be honoured

"It does seem that they're not worth as much as they once were, contracts," McKay said. "I think it's really important that people understand that clubs desire that players play out their contracts.

"Players sign a contract and we believe that they should see that out."

Gibbs has admitted in interviews since that the Crows didn't go about it well.

 

[dickie_douglas]

yeah if carlton don't give up pick 1 for gov he stays in adelaide