Rumour Multiple GWS players are set to be suspended to start the 2025 season after distasteful costumes and skits from their post-season function

[Gough]

I have to show my hand here - I worked in hospo for quite a while, and there is a long lonnnnngg history of people working in hospo being told to just shut up and cop shitty behaviour for minimum wage for many, many years.

It's particularly grating that guys like Mitch Robinson and Dane Swan - who have never had to work a shitty customer service job one day in their lives, and have presumably been on six-figure salaries since their first post-draft contract, feel the need to come down hard on this staff member for not putting up and shutting up, whoever they are.

If you own that pub you'll side with bar staff who'll come to work on an hours notice 50 weeks a year over a bunch of pissed off footy fans who might boycott the place on their next trip from Melbourne any day of the week.

 

[iameviljez]

If you own that pub you'll side with bar staff who'll come to work on an hours notice 50 weeks a year over a bunch of pissed off footy fans who might boycott the place on their next trip from Melbourne any day of the week.

Depends - there are a lot of pub owners who will back the customer over the staff, love the attention and adulation of footy stars, and themselves consider sleazing on the bar staff to be a perk of the job.

 

[Gough]

Depends - there are a lot of pub owners who will back the customer over the staff, love the attention and adulation of footy stars, and themselves consider sleazing on the bar staff to be a perk of the job.

Lenny Henry came into my pub and my only thought was it was unusual to see a black dude in this part of Berkshire, it was only when my barmaid pointed him out that I recognised him. Cheap bastard only ordered a coffee and he plugged his laptop into charge.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

If you own that pub you'll side with bar staff who'll come to work on an hours notice 50 weeks a year over a bunch of pissed off footy fans who might boycott the place on their next trip from Melbourne any day of the week.

These days, maybe. 10-15 years ago, not always the case, in fact, often not. Got keep up with fast paced, bit of banter workplace, you know, don’t be so soft, it was only a joke, they didn’t mean it.

 

[iameviljez]

Lenny Henry came into my pub and my only thought was it was unusual to see a black dude in this part of Berkshire, it was only when my barmaid pointed him out that I recognised him. Cheap bastard only ordered a coffee and he plugged his laptop into charge.

Haha. I remember as a young bloke being told by the owner not to loiter near a particular table too long, just serve and leave alone. It was Mick Gatto with some associate.

Paul Mac (musician, most closely associated with Silverchair/Daniel Johns) just sat out front and smoked cigars for an hour and completely stank the joint out.

 

[kickazz]

and boy oh boy do I have some stories about police Christmas parties

Was at a bar in South Wharf one Xmas, saw someone I knew who was special ops po po. His whole work crew were there getting pissed. Chatted with them a bit and far out the shit they said changed how I view police. Scary shit.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Haha. I remember as a young bloke being told by the owner not to loiter near a particular table too long, just serve and leave alone. It was Mick Gatto with some associate.

Paul Mac (musician, most closely associated with Silverchair/Daniel Johns) just sat out front and smoked cigars for an hour and completely stank the joint out.

We got a few mobster/wannabe mobsters come in packing heat, just got told they can have whatever they want, don’t worry if they pay. Wild time.

 

[kickazz]

I have to show my hand here - I worked in hospo for quite a while, and there is a long lonnnnngg history of people working in hospo being told to just shut up and cop shitty behaviour for minimum wage for many, many years.

It's particularly grating that guys like Mitch Robinson and Dane Swan - who have never had to work a shitty customer service job one day in their lives, and have presumably been on six-figure salaries since their first post-draft contract, feel the need to come down hard on this staff member for not putting up and shutting up, whoever they are.

And I think this is where the anti-dobbing culture comes from: those with leverage in powerful positions silencing others with intimidation, even if they don't realise it.

Why be scared of the truth.

And this is from someone who got snitched on for dropping a ciggie butt in the ground back in the day and copped a fine. Fecking snitch!

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Haha. I remember as a young bloke being told by the owner not to loiter near a particular table too long, just serve and leave alone. It was Mick Gatto with some associate.

Paul Mac (musician, most closely associated with Silverchair/Daniel Johns) just sat out front and smoked cigars for an hour and completely stank the joint out.

We got a few mobster/wannabe mobsters come in packing heat, just got told they can have whatever they want, don’t worry if they pay. Wild time.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Was at a bar in South Wharf one Xmas, saw someone I knew who was special ops po po. His whole work crew were there getting pissed. Chatted with them a bit and far out the shit they said changed how I view police. Scary shit.

I have no doubt. These guys were mostly uniform, but there were a few senior blokes from an infamous old squad, reckon the evidence locker was pretty light that week.

 

[Consolaçao]

they dressed as a convicted rapist, and re enacted the crime.

Help me understand. Is it the depiction of a crime that’s the problem? Or is it depiction of rape specifically?
I’m unsure why what happened was obviously bad, and why, say, crime depicted in a film or a book isn’t.

 

[Gough]

I used to get a now high profile union guy who was just starting out at the time who'd turn up at closing time with everything needed for a top class late.

 

[james haish]

And I think this is where the anti-dobbing culture comes from: those with leverage in powerful positions silencing others with intimidation, even if they don't realise it.

Why be scared of the truth.

And this is from someone who got snitched on for dropping a ciggie butt in the ground back in the day and copped a fine. Fecking snitch!

No, anti-dobbing culture comes from the fact you’re dobbing to the most powerful entity you can find and thus siding with power.

 

[Frank Bunn]

You won't get a response.

Yep. 6 pages later and no one has said which sexual assaults the skits were about.

 

[EagleShore]

I should have qualified with “alleged to have engaged in pretty reprehensible behaviour”, we, all of us, don’t know exactly what it was. The punishment is fit for a fairly serious actions - whether commensurate or not I cannot say.

Why did it need to come out? Do hospitality workers not deserve a safe workplace? Should they not complain? A pub (Public Bar) is not a private space. If you get your slug out in a pub, you will be in trouble, if you do it home, you won’t. You have no right to privacy at a pub anymore than in any public space.

I believe there is a law against willfully exposing your genitals in a location other than your own residence or that of other consenting adults.

Is there a law against using dark humour in a hotel/pub/venue? I would suggest that, if someone is doing so and they have been told by an employee with jurisdiction or owner/manager of the venue to cease said activity, and they continue, then there may be a law against this.

In this case, there has been no suggestion that (a) anyone told the GWS players to stop what they were doing, and (b) in the face of that, they continued their skits.

Consider if you were at a work gathering at a restaurant and a rather boisterous colleague was telling a dark joke, and someone reported them anonymously to the company CEO when no one at the venue expressed concern or requested the joke teller to cease doing what he or she is doing. On what grounds aside from an arbitrary sensitivity would the CEO reprimand the joke teller?

At best, the AFL's response is out of proportion to the offence/s, and at worst, it is completely unjustified and is demonstrative of their hypocritical and authoritarian management style.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I believe there is a law against willfully exposing your genitals in a location other than your own residence or that of other consenting adults.

Is there a law against using dark humour in a hotel/pub/venue? I would suggest that, if someone is doing so and they have been told by an employee with jurisdiction or owner/manager of the venue to cease said activity, and they continue, then there may be a law against this.

In this case, there has been no suggestion that (a) anyone told the GWS players to stop what they were doing, and (b) in the face of that, they continued their skits.

Consider if you were at a work gathering at a restaurant and a rather boisterous colleague was telling a dark joke, and someone reported them anonymously to to company CEO when no one at the venue expressed concern or requested the joke teller to cease doing what he or she is doing. On what grounds would the CEO reprimand the joke teller?

Pretty sure the AFL player contracts would be more relevant than the venue hire agreement.

 

[iameviljez]

Help me understand. Is it the depiction of a crime that’s the problem? Or is it depiction of rape specifically?
I’m unsure why what happened was obviously bad, and why, say, crime depicted in a film or a book isn’t.

Rape specifically is a problem here above others, because it's a uniquely traumatic experience that a lot of people - particularly, but not exclusively women - carry with them while they try and go about their day to day lives.

 

[EagleShore]

Pretty sure the AFL player contracts would be more relevant than the venue hire agreement.

And therein, I admit, would be where the rubber meets the road in this situation.

Without being privy to the specific details and wording within their contracts as regards player behaviour outside of season etc., we are all just providing our best assessments based upon our own biases and peculiarities.

If I were the GWS players, I would be getting lawyers involved if I could not be certain that my contract precludes such behaviour.

And it would have to be damn specific...clauses like "behaviour unbecoming" would be torn to shreds in a court because it would have to be based upon the "reasonable person" test...and what is a "reasonable person" these days?

We live in such precious times where some people are so eager to jump up and down to take offence to things that I reckon comedians would have to have legal stipulations to cover their arses in the event that someone decides to go to a comedy show and take offence to dark humour. I mean, Jimmy Carr has done pedo jokes for goodness sake.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

I believe there is a law against willfully exposing your genitals in a location other than your own residence or that of other consenting adults.

Is there a law against using dark humour in a hotel/pub/venue? I would suggest that, if someone is doing so and they have been told by an employee with jurisdiction or owner/manager of the venue to cease said activity, and they continue, then there may be a law against this.

In this case, there has been no suggestion that (a) anyone told the GWS players to stop what they were doing, and (b) in the face of that, they continued their skits.

Consider if you were at a work gathering at a restaurant and a rather boisterous colleague was telling a dark joke, and someone reported them anonymously to the company CEO when no one at the venue expressed concern or requested the joke teller to cease doing what he or she is doing. On what grounds aside from an arbitrary sensitivity would the CEO reprimand the joke teller?

At best, the AFL's response is out of proportion to the offence/s, and at worst, it is completely unjustified and is demonstrative of their hypocritical and authoritarian management style.

The genital thing was more a reference to things you can do at home that you can’t do in a ‘private’ function.

Dark humour is such a silly term here. If what they were doing was offensive then humour has nothing to do with it. Maybe the staff members felt intimidated, maybe they did say something, maybe they said to their manager they didn’t want to host a function like that again, I don’t know, neither do you.

On your example, power imbalance would be a situation when someone may report them anonymously and a ceo may sanction - junior member of staff concerned, senior member making inappropriate comments.

Your last paragraph is utter nonsense. If GWS have so unfairly treated they will appeal these sanctions. AFL clubs appeal sanctions all the time, even when most would say they haven’t been unfairly treated.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Piss weak. They criticise the way in which the AFL conducted the investigation but agreed with the sanctions.

The AFLPA had a real opportunity, with majority community support, to make a stand and they squibbed it.

I'm glad it was Marsh that put his name to it, if it was Danger that would have ruled AFL out for me next season instead of just the first 4 rounds.

 

[Orange crush]

Piss weak. They criticise the way in which the AFL conducted the investigation but agreed with the sanctions.

The AFLPA had a real opportunity, with majority community support, to make a stand and they squibbed it.

I'm glad it was Marsh that put his name to it, if it was Danger that would have ruled AFL out for me next season instead of just the first 4 rounds.

The statement says the sanctions were disproportionate and set without due process

 

[Satan]

Yep. 6 pages later and no one has said which sexual assaults the skits were about.

Rugby player and doll ?

 

[TheEscapeClub]

The statement says the sanctions were disproportionate and set without due process

 

[iameviljez]

If I were the GWS players, I would be getting lawyers involved if I could not be certain that my contract precludes such behaviour.

And it would have to be damn specific...clauses like "behaviour unbecoming" would be torn to shreds in a court because it would have to be based upon the "reasonable person" test...and what is a "reasonable person" these days?

The moment you get into court, the fact that AFL players have different cultural expectations on their behaviour and get given greater social leeway goes out the window.

They're employees who, hypothetically at least, got disciplined for performing a rape skit at an unsanctioned employee event, where the venue put in a behaviour complaint back to the company. For most people, that is the kind of thing where you'd be lucky to keep your job.

You can't just throw up your hands and say, "but what is a reasonable person nowadays!", and have all such clauses declared null and void.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

The AFL will turbo shit their pants on anything like this now.

There's a women's league dictating every response to any issue that occurs in the men's.

The AFLW response was PR to perfection.

Should we have gotten a male response to when those 2 AFLW Swans players were caught with illicit substances?