Autopsy NAB 3: Richmond vs North Melbourne @ Etihad Stadium - Saturday 1:10pm, 21 March

[tora tora tora]

Morris worries me as a forward.

He made a name for himself as a dirty rooter down back who would step on his grandmothers head to get the pill.

He looks a bit out of sorts up near goal. At his age it seems a bum move to try and reinvent a player who does not need reinventing.

Historically it seems to work better the other way.... A forward who is not playing well might be a good option in the back line.

I hope if it does not work the decision is made quickly to put him back where he plays his best footy.

Just had a look at the replay and actually didn't mind Morris's game. Clearly doing his job as the negating forward. I would like to have Knights and Lloyd playing and I'd probably drop Lennon to make way for him.

 

[TheAnt]

astbury provides zero run and zero attack. He's good at nullifying though. Chaplin is the polar opposite.
For round one, I would sit Astbury out as the Blues don't really have a monster forward.

Casboult. We seem to struggle with him sometimes. Also a bit of a myth, got more of the ball then Batchelor and Grimes last year.

 

[tora tora tora]

Yup - I like Batch back there and with Rance, Grimes and Astbury I would be happy.

They would be my first choice too. Against good opposition I thought Grimes and Rance played well. Wasn't that impressed with Batch's (1/2) game y'day.

 

[tora tora tora]

Vickery is surely behind Griffiths. Griffiths still has some improvements to make but overall he's a smarter player and better competitor than Vickery.

My round 1 side...

B: Grimes Astbury Chaplin
HB: Houli Rance Vlastuin

R: Maric Cotchin Miles
C: Ellis Martin Deledio

HF: Grigg Griffiths Edwards
F: Morris Riewoldt Lloyd

INT: Hunt Conca Lennon SUB: Knights

Grigg has been solid.
Lloyd should have been given a full game. But he's shown enough to get in the team.
Astbury we could leave out of the side to give him a week in the VFL and also because we don't need him for Carlton's forward line.
McIntosh is getting close to forcing his way in, has been impressive.

I haven't been that impressed with Hunt over a couple of games and reckon Mc Intosh goes in ahead of him. And Lennon as sub and a goal kicking Knights in.

 

[SpudsLoveChild]

Serious question. How did Hammer do in the 2s?

 

[tora tora tora]

In what was a full strength practice match Ivan got dominated both in the ruck and what he let Goldstein do around the ground. Cotch was held and we and we couldn't find a plan B.
Edwards did 1 or 2 flashy things he didn't have much impact in the centre. Too much quick ball movement into our defence. I'm looking fwd to having Miles back and maybe we should elevate Lambert. We need Conca, Vlas and 2 or 3 others (JR?) to be able to step into the midfield.

I rate North as a team and the final result wasn't too bad. Take out the supergoals and its an 11 point game.

Agree with others about Ty..he stunk it up. and if the coaches wanted to play 3 fwds ~ maybe they'll consider bringing in Hampson. Genuine ruck support for Ivan.

 

[copthat]

I can see both playing to compliment themselves.

Lids Griff Knights(if fit)
Lloyd Jack Morris.

Yep don't mind this if we don't go with 3 talls. It may sound silly but I think if Morris doesn't worry about kicking goals and getting into good forward spots then he will actually find himself hitting the scoreboard more often sheerly through the rewards of his defensive pressure. Tackling and defensive pressure are ingrained in him, forward play less so. If he does what is instinctual he might find himself in the play more or getting a couple of holding the balls 20m out directly in front. Lloyd is a natural so he's always going to get shots on goal.

So in saying that you'd think it would be easier to fix Lloyd's weakness as opposed to the other two?

Definitely. Lloyd's issue is a workrate and mindset thing, whereas Morris and Petterd are never going to be overly skilful players or have the goal sense that Lloyd possesses. I think one of the knocks on Lloyd was that he was a bit lazy though so it might take a while.

 

[TheAnt]

In what was a full strength practice match Ivan got dominated both in the ruck and what he let Goldstein do around the ground. Cotch was held and we and we couldn't find a plan B.

What? Cotchin had 20 disposals in 3 quarters with 8 clearances.
Ivan had 1 less hit-out then Goldstein, the same amount of clearances and marks. Didn't get dominated by any stretch.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Like Morris, I doubt Petterd would be able to hit the scoreboard consistently.

King's skill level often got overshadowed by his frenetic defensive pressure, but he was actually adequately skilled which allowed him to hit the scoreboard 2 or 3 times a game. Could kick smartly on both sides of his body, could bomb it 55m+ and had excellent crumbing sense. Neither Morris or Petterd have this package which is why I think we should persist with Lloyd. Lloyd has everything apart from the defensive pressure, which is unfortunately below average at AFL level.

I get the feeling King will be hard to replace for a while.

I reckon hitting the scoreboard is one area Petterd has proven he covers comfortably.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Didn't he play it reasonably well against us while at Melbourne? He has more offensive ability too.

Having said that Morris was good today especially after half time.

I think he's a good forward who has a knack for scoring goals but I'm not sure he has the leg speed to be the defensive tackler.

 

[copthat]

I reckon hitting the scoreboard is one area Petterd has proven he covers comfortably.

Not sure about that. Never kicked more than 20 in a season and those good seasons were at Melbourne where he was playing more as a target forward as opposed to a "pressure" forward. King (the bloke we are essentially trying to replace) kicked more goals, had more tackles and more goal assists in roughly the same amount of games per season. Puopolo even better by a fair stretch too.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Not sure about that. Never kicked more than 20 in a season and those good seasons were at Melbourne where he was playing more as a target forward as opposed to a "pressure" forward. King (the bloke we are essentially trying to replace) kicked more goals, had more tackles and more goal assists in roughly the same amount of games per season. Puopolo even better by a fair stretch too.

He goes at nearly a goal per game over his career though and clearly knows how to kick goals.
It's pretty tough to score 20 goals in a season when you're always injured too.
I'm not an advocate of him playing kings role either because he's not suited but I just reckon he has a good nose for a goal.
Even kicking a dozen last year playing all over the shop was pretty good I thought.

 

[tigs2010]

I think he's a good forward who has a knack for scoring goals but I'm not sure he has the leg speed to be the defensive tackler.

Probably comes down to match ups. He's capable of applying good pressure but he's not going to be able to stop Yarran. Having said that not many teams have a Yarran type to shut down. No reason he couldn't take guys like hibberd, malceski, birchall, Heath shaw etc etc.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Probably comes down to match ups. He's capable of applying good pressure but he's not going to be able to stop Yarran. Having said that not many teams have a Yarran type to shut down. No reason he couldn't take guys like hibberd, malceski, birchall, Heath shaw etc etc.

True.
He's a very good tackler too and I think he went at about 4 per game last season which is good going.
He'll probably just fill holes as needed.

 

[leemo]

Regarding Morris. I could understand them trying him up forward if we had an abundance of small backmen and a surplus of small forwards. But this isn't the case. He is our best small backmen by far in terms of what he can do defensively. Yes, we have Newman, Houli, conca, vlastuin but they are all more rebound defenders as opposed to shutdown defenders who can play on the dangerous small forwards. Who is going to play on the betts, ballantynes, Harvey etc if not Morris?
If we are after more forward pressure then the guys who are naturally suited to that position ie Lloyd, Edwards, Lennon, knights simply need to be instructed and coached to apply more pressure.

As for the rest of the team, Vickery simply doesn't contribute enough across the ground to warrant a spot IMO. Macintosh has done some nice things over pre season but I think he needs to have a few really good games in the VFL and bash down the door to earn a spot- worth persisting with but I think still needs to put a bit more weight on. I'd have Lennon or Hunt in over him at this stage.

I think Conca has been harshly judged by a few on here and I've said before that if he wasn't in the squad we would miss a lot of what he does from a DEFENSIVE aspect. I think we need to lower our expectations of what he offers in terms of disposal and possessions per game as long as he keeps on tackling, shepherding etc.

 

[theflea]

I think he's actually quite a good kick, but sometimes he just tries to do too much.
This is why he was often shanking them early in his career, but he's much much better at picking his options now

Sure but he still is a little wobbly imo. If he was a really good kick then he would be an a grader.

 

[theflea]

Yep don't mind this if we don't go with 3 talls. It may sound silly but I think if Morris doesn't worry about kicking goals and getting into good forward spots then he will actually find himself hitting the scoreboard more often sheerly through the rewards of his defensive pressure. Tackling and defensive pressure are ingrained in him, forward play less so. If he does what is instinctual he might find himself in the play more or getting a couple of holding the balls 20m out directly in front. Lloyd is a natural so he's always going to get shots on goal.

Definitely. Lloyd's issue is a workrate and mindset thing, whereas Morris and Petterd are never going to be overly skilful players or have the goal sense that Lloyd possesses. I think one of the knocks on Lloyd was that he was a bit lazy though so it might take a while.

Yep my thoughts as well.

 

[Mouth47]

Have not read the entire thread, but my thoughts on the game as I happened to ditch the wife who was shopping to head on over with 2 of my boys

Pros

• What stood out to me, was our ball use. For the time of year, we were very clean with our disposal by foot and hand.
• I watched the game also on the IQ when i got home and the TV did not show it but Kamdyn did really well today. He was on Dal Santo for large chunks and I would say beat him. Ran all day and did a lot off the ball stuff which was really good to see.
• Dusty got into the game after he adjusted to cunningtons tactics. The amount of holding of dustys arms to try to stop him impacting a contest off the ball was pretty damning on the umpires. They let it go, time and time again. You could see Dusty say **** it, and just charge in. Did well and blew him away.
• Griffiths worked his arse off. If he had of clunked those marks, he easily might have been BOG
• Jack is a freak, was everywhere, mid, back and also forward.
• Those that knock Cotchins disposal, need to see him live and keep watching him all game. Our Captain is elite, on the forward flank he did this fantastic side step surrounded by huge pressure, not once but three times to try to make space and release the handball, when nobody was free, he did this beauty of a kick that hit Jack lace out for a goal. Was magic stuff.
• Lennon has a good work rate, when he did not have the ball he kept moving and tried to be an option for our backs to kick too.
• Astbury is a gun, closed Pietry right out of the game when he went on him after Pietry kicked his first.
• Starting to like this game plan. We are lightning out of the back half and the boys tend to form a semi circle around a contest, which we allows our player who is pressed to handball his way to someone who is free. It was actually really good to see it. It worked more often then not and ****, finally we are using the whole ground to move the ball. It was great to see us using the fat side more often then last year, trying to use the corridor at all times.
• Also and another finally, we dont just kick to the right pocket in a kick in. We actually tried to mix it up.

Cons

• Huge one for me was the umpires, or the lack of any action from them. I am not blaming them for the loss but the Norf players must be instructed to try to ****** there opponents while off the ball, and they were never pinged. There was an incident when Jack was about to move to the top of the forward 50 to be that release player and I shit you not, his opponent was pulling his arms back so bad it was like a tug of war. Good on Norf for getting away with it but IMO when the real stuff starts they are going to give a lot of free kicks away.
• Our forward 50 mix is a real concern. So many times our mids kicked it high to a short bloke and low to a tall bloke. Also our forwards lead to high up the ground which creates all this space but nobody pushes hard enough back to make use of it. Dimma needs to go back to a more traditional set up IMO.
• I dont know if Chaplins injured but his work rate is pathetic. So many times he would just walk while his opponent is 20 meters in the clear. Only when he realised they had the ball would he run to try to catch up.
• Not convinced about Morris in our F50. He did some nice things but IMO those nice things don't out way his benefit to us manning a Thomas for example. He also calls for the ball, when by all rights he shouldn't. Guess he will improve that with experience but its a worry as they go to him, even when he is right under pressure.
• Tyrone is ******* lazy.

The major concern for me is our game plan or lack thereof. We still have not appeared to have constructed a game plan that allows Richmond Football club to dictate a game against good opposition. North constrict the football and oppenent when not in possession and spread and provide options when they are. So simple ....wish we could adopt that approach at some point. Make no mistake they dictated that game and will replicate that again when the real stuff starts.

 

[Nostradumbass]

I didn't mind Morris' game yesterday. He was getting into good positions and holding marks and providing good pressure. If he can sort his set shots out I think he can be useful up there.

 

[sregit]

The major concern for me is our game plan or lack thereof. We still have not appeared to have constructed a game plan that allows Richmond Football club to dictate a game against good opposition. North constrict the football and oppenent when not in possession and spread and provide options when they are. So simple ....wish we could adopt that approach at some point. Make no mistake they dictated that game and will replicate that again when the real stuff starts.

North are a class above us and took control in the first 5 minutes. As you have stated, it won't change. We are their bitches and whilst we play the style of game we do, it will not be any different. We over commit going forward and they absorb and then hit us on the rebound as we have no one back. Dumb game plan.

 

[ryza87]

Morris is not working in the forward line imo and I think its safe to say Dimma will persist with him there for way to long until its to late. It seems everyone forgets how good he was two or three years ago playing on the opposition small forwards!
The three pronged forward line is never gonna work for us either, not with Vickery anyway. Id play Riewoldt and Griffiths and have Maric float down there when Griffo is in the ruck. We also have the option of pushing our talls up the ground and playing Cotch or Dusty one out.


B: BATCHELOR, RANCE, CHAPLIN
HB: VLASTUIN, ASTBURY, HOULI

C: ELLIS, MARTIN, GRIGG

HF: DELEDIO, GIFFITHS, KNIGHTS
F: LLYOD, RIEWOLDT, EDWARDS

R: MARIC, COTCHIN, MILES

INT: MCINTOSH, LENNON, HUNT, CONCA

 

[Ralll]

I thought it was bruise free footy for most of it, they played a bit cleaner than us and deserved to win.
Norths 31 scoring shots from 50 I50's is a worry, our backs/mids need to step it up defensively when the real stuff starts.
Our forward line is still being experimented with, and our best setup needs to be found and settled.

Overall good to see us fight until the end, and some good linkup play throughout the game.

 

[Turmoil]

I think if we have TV in the team we have to have a more defensive forward pocket such as Morris.
If we go with the two key forwards we could get away without him as our foot speed would be better.

I would not be surprised to see with the development of McIntosh and if Knights is healthy, Hunt being used as a more lock down defender/forward as he has shown he has natural defensive side to his game.

 

[Grockadoc]

One observation I had from watching the game at the ground was Grimes defensive positioning. It is terrible.

I lost count how many times the Kangaroos were on a fast break on the wing, heading towards forward fifty, and grimes was standing two meters in front of his opponent, who was goalside, and had his back turned to the play. He was more focused on his opponent than the play unfolding behind him, and his opponent did a little feint step back towards goal, suckered Grimes in and then took off in the other direction, and lost Grimes, and was hit up by his Kangaroos teammate.

Little stuff like this frustrates me to know end. AT NO POINT should a defender have his back to the ball carrier, especially at this level.

 

[Tas]

I thought it was bruise free footy for most of it, they played a bit cleaner than us and deserved to win.
Norths 31 scoring shots from 50 I50's is a worry, our backs/mids need to step it up defensively when the real stuff starts.
Our forward line is still being experimented with, and our best setup needs to be found and settled.

Overall good to see us fight until the end, and some good linkup play throughout the game.

We don't go forward as much as most teams, we don't generate a lot of repeat entries into a congested forward 50, but a lot of our inside 50s come from defensive rebounds which give a lot more opportunities for uncontested marks or 1v1 contests in our forward 50 which results in a pretty good ratio of scoring shots per inside 50.

We still need to find the right balance between offence and defence.