Never thought it would come to this

[weevil]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

So you are disagreeing with me about what the meaning of one of my earlier statements happened to be? Next time I want to say something on here I'll PM you what I want to say first so that you can word it for me correctly then!

Always a good way to avoid a red card.

[I'm joking people ]

It seems to me as though you're generalising most of the posts on here as being "heat of the moment" fair, but considering your own judgement to be beyond that folly and therefore dismissing alternatives to your judgement as being made merely in the "heat of the moment".

I think that my assessments of things are fair and that I take a balanced approached, taking many factors into account (such as the fact that Voss is dealing with certain problems left by the previous hierarchy and other external factors such as AFL expansion). If you disagree, and feel that your judgement is superior, well, there's not much I can do.

However, I'm still yet to receive and objective and tangible answer from Bluepride that satisfies me as to how Voss is a good tactician, which is what my original question happened to be, prior to your intervention.

I disagree, and feel my judgement is superior.

I don't think that you are going to get an answer from Bluepride that satisfies you. I think you disagree, and feel your judgement is superior.

 

[bluepride]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

I thought you said earlier that Voss was a good tactician? It was at that point that I asked you if you could give some examples of this statement. So far, you really haven't done so, apart from one or two details of things that happened in isolated matches as opposed to how our term performs overall.

I guess if this discussion is going to be limited to merely your "general feeling" then perhaps the discussion has concluded.



Do you think Ratten is a bad coach? It's not something that I've said.

Im just agreeing for the sake of my question.


Please PLEASE try and answer it.

Why has Carlton lost one game in 6 rounds and Brisbane havnt won a game, yet both both coaches arent tactically smart?

 

[Stocka]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Always a good way to avoid a red card.

Well, if I'm not seen around these parts in the future, people will now know why!

And before you claim that this is merely some wild conspiracy theory, I'll point out that it has happened before - the great disappearance of Mr.Ripper, Stocka and SpecialBruce (although, in the case of SpecialBruce, that may have been beneficial for all concerned).

I disagree, and feel my judgement is superior.

What do you disagree with? Or are you just trying to play funny word games now?

I don't think that you are going to get an answer from Bluepride that satisfies you. I think you disagree, and feel your judgement is superior.

Well, if Bluepride could provide some examples of how Voss has instituted particular tactical approaches out on the field that have improved our performance, then I would be satisfied. However, all that has been offered in response have been comment that reflect a "general feel" or details from isolated games that may not even relate to the notion of tactics or strategy.

For what it's worth, I've mentioned on these boards previously that I think our ball movement from half-back and through the midfield has improved this year, but obviously not to the point that we are successful at winning games. Unfortunately it seems as though there are other areas of our game that are still lacking significantly enough in, or have gone backwards in, that are costing us.

 

[Stocka]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Im just agreeing for the sake of my question.


Please PLEASE try and answer it.

Why has Carlton lost one game in 6 rounds and Brisbane havnt won a game, yet both both coaches arent tactically smart?

You appear to be trying to ask some sort of rhetorical question based on the hypothetical of me having the premise that Ratten is a poor strategist. However, you completely miss the point that I never said that Ratten wasn't "tactically smart", as you put it. In fact, I never even commented on the matter, but rather I asked for you to provide good examples to back up your statement that Voss is a good tactical coach.

What is your own answer to your own question then, if it is so important to the discussion to put forward something consisting of such rhetoric? Clearly you are trying to make some point, by inadvertently thinking you can outsmart me into coming to the same conclusion as yourself, so why not just say your point? At any rate, I doubt it will provide me with an example of how Voss is a good tactical coach....

I think you need to go back to your own board rather than trying to discuss something you don't know much about based on some sort of hypothetical rhetorical question.

 

[drummond2fevola]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Alot of experts in this thread, the Lions board should just recruit a coach off here

 

[weevil]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Well, if I'm not seen around these parts in the future, people will now know why!

And before you claim that this is merely some wild conspiracy theory, I'll point out that it has happened before - the great disappearance of Mr.Ripper, Stocka and SpecialBruce (although, in the case of SpecialBruce, that may have been beneficial for all concerned).

?!?!?!What you talkin bout Willis?!?!?!

Rip had a dispute with a former mod about a million years ago, before any of the current mods were here. He left and came back of his own accord.

No idea about Stocka, nuthin' to do with mods as far as I know.

Bruce made a bet that if we lost to Melbourne last year he would not post for the rest of the season...then he never came back.

I think I have been here for about 5 years and 1 Brisbane poster has been removed in that entire time.

We like to joke around but we are very easy going.

What do you disagree with? Or are you just trying to play funny word games now?

Yeah mate we just disagree, I have lots of thoughts, but I don't have time to scribble them all down.

Well, if Bluepride could provide some examples of how Voss has instituted particular tactical approaches out on the field that have improved our performance, then I would be satisfied. However, all that has been offered in response have been comment that reflect a "general feel" or details from isolated games that may not even relate to the notion of tactics or strategy.

For what it's worth, I've mentioned on these boards previously that I think our ball movement from half-back and through the midfield has improved this year, but obviously not to the point that we are successful at winning games. Unfortunately it seems as though there are other areas of our game that are still lacking significantly enough in, or have gone backwards in, that are costing us.

Basically I think we were second to the ball. Virtually impossible to make any calls on structures, tactics or skills until we get our hands on the thing.

In other games we have gotten the ball, but have fallen down up forward. We have not got the cattle up there and I don't think any amount of chess moves are going to fix that. Need to grow those players.

 

[Football Pope]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Alot of experts in this thread, the Lions board should just recruit a coach off here

.....We'd be in a no worse position than we are now.

 

[weevil]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

I asked for you to provide good examples to back up your statement that Voss is a good tactical coach.

Show me a young team getting smashed in the guts who make their coach look like a great tactician.

 

[Footballator]

Re: Never thought it would come to thid

It is an attitude the players have more than a coaching issue.
Bring in some sports pshyc's and some positive spin doctors and quickly...............
Sometimes young sportsman are like fast cars.... you need to steer em and get them handling right or you are unlikely to get the most out of the performance traits.

Suns V Lions....... crash and burn......

 

[Footballator]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

They are in full pitchfork mode right now.[/quote]

I only have a flame torch and a wooden spade, where do you get the pitchforks from?

 

[LionMen]

It pains me to say it, but I think the Casey Scorpions with Fev could beat us

 

[Balony_pony16]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

P

Alot of experts in this thread, the Lions board should just recruit a coach off here

Why??? Things are going pretty rosy with the one we have

 

[weevil]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

I only have a flame torch and a wooden spade, where do you get the pitchforks from?

I reckon Stocka has a few stashed away.

 

[Stocka]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Show me a young team getting smashed in the guts who make their coach look like a great tactician.

So I take it that you believe that the main problem at the moment is the inexperience of our team?

 

[Footballator]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

So I take it that you believe that the main problem at the moment is the inexperience of our team?

Nup, just that you didn't tell me where to get my pitchfork............

 

[Stocka]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

?!?!?!What you talkin bout Willis?!?!?!

Rip had a dispute with a former mod about a million years ago, before any of the current mods were here. He left and came back of his own accord.

No idea about Stocka, nuthin' to do with mods as far as I know.

Bruce made a bet that if we lost to Melbourne last year he would not post for the rest of the season...then he never came back.

I think I have been here for about 5 years and 1 Brisbane poster has been removed in that entire time.

We like to joke around but we are very easy going.

Well, you might need to get back to those history books, cobber!

But, as they say, history has a habit of repeating itself!

Yeah mate we just disagree, I have lots of thoughts, but I don't have time to scribble them all down.

I was unsure what you were specifically disagreeing with at the point in time in which you made the comment. I thought you might have clarified when given an opportunity, just to enable the readability of the thread.

Basically I think we were second to the ball. Virtually impossible to make any calls on structures, tactics or skills until we get our hands on the thing.

Why do you think we are second to the ball? Is it just a matter of pace or is it something about the way in which we are setting ourselves up at the stoppages as well as the way in which we are or are not setting up an effective spread of players across the field when the ball is in play?

In other games we have gotten the ball, but have fallen down up forward. We have not got the cattle up there and I don't think any amount of chess moves are going to fix that. Need to grow those players.

I think the method of entering the ball inside 50m (and the movement of our forward targets) could be improved. We seem to have resorted too often of late to bombing in long to a stationary target who has inadequate ground support (the set-up and effective positioning of crumbing forwards seems to be non-existant most of the time). The amount of times we did this against Melbourne and Richmond with no positive effect was staggering and arguably cost us the game after having been in winning positions a number of times in each match. Obviously in-game changes to correct this might be hard to achieve, but then again, the move of McGrath last night showed that it can be done. Moreover, coming up with a more effective starting set-up of forwards to begin with, and approaching forward entries in a different manner might actually mean that we are more effective without having to rely on a game-saving in-game move.

 

[Stocka]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Nup, just that you didn't tell me where to get my pitchfork............

Ahahah this looks incredible like Weevil has forgotten to log out of one of his illegal multiple aliases in replying to my question!

You Stasi people have eyes and ears everywhere!

 

[Footballator]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Ahahah this looks incredible like Weevil has forgotten to log out of one of his illegal multiple aliases in replying to my question!

You Stasi people have eyes and ears everywhere!

Ha nope I am me and no weevel but I am having a laugh as well.

You still haven't told me... let me guess down the hall first door on the left, one fork each?

 

[Stocka]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Ha nope I am me and no weevel but I am having a laugh as well.

You still haven't told me... let me guess down the hall first door on the left, one fork each?

In Soviet Russia we are no longer using pitchforks.

 

[weevil]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

So I take it that you believe that the main problem at the moment is the inexperience of our team?

We started the year playing really well then we lost JB and Stakes and we had nothing up forward.

Generally we were still very competitive in the middle but were getting no reward because of the lack of targets on the forward line.

Over time the lack of reward for our efforts has eroded our confidence and the last couple of games our midfield intensity has dropped right off for significant portions of the games.

Voss has desperately trying to fix the problem in the forward line. Has tried a multitude of players and structures there. Facts seem to be that without JB we just don’t have the cattle in that part of the ground yet.

 

[mpal6]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Agreed.

When the forward line is failing inspite of having the same number of entries as opposition (on most occasions), midfield going second to ball and defense getting pumped - there is very little a coach can do.

Voss can get the playing 22 on park with the same instructions as week 1. But players have off days, some due to lack of confidence, some due to not in good form (banfield), some due to the fact that the efforts are not getting rewarded with a win onboard (rockliff, redden)..

Our list is not a seasoned, battle hardened bunch expect for Black/Power/Browny, they will have ups and downs.

Be realistic, apart from the abovementioned veterans we have Rich/Rockliff/Redden carrying the mantle. Others like OBrien etc look up to this bunch and you can feel the vibe when these guys have an off day. Give them time. I am not pleased about this start either but we can't squarely lay the blame on Vossy or on the playing group.

If Voss is the problem, you can see that through a distinct lack of trying in player's efforts. This is clearly not the case (minus GC, WB) - just bad luck that we couldn't get on board with a win yet.

 

[weevil]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Well, you might need to get back to those history books, cobber!

Oh god no. I’d rather slash my wrists than get into board politics from 7 years ago.

But, as they say, history has a habit of repeating itself!

My history is that 1 Brisbane poster has been removed from this board in the entire time I have been here and that’s because that poster was caught red-handed by an admin.

I was unsure what you were specifically disagreeing with at the point in time in which you made the comment. I thought you might have clarified when given an opportunity, just to enable the readability of the thread.

Basically I can’t be arsed getting into done before debates I can see are just going to end in a difference of opinion. So I’ll sometimes just voice my basic opinion a few times without getting bogged down.

I think the method of entering the ball inside 50m (and the movement of our forward targets) could be improved. We seem to have resorted too often of late to bombing in long to a stationary target who has inadequate ground support (the set-up and effective positioning of crumbing forwards seems to be non-existant most of the time). The amount of times we did this against Melbourne and Richmond with no positive effect was staggering and arguably cost us the game after having been in winning positions a number of times in each match. Obviously in-game changes to correct this might be hard to achieve, but then again, the move of McGrath last night showed that it can be done. Moreover, coming up with a more effective starting set-up of forwards to begin with, and approaching forward entries in a different manner might actually mean that we are more effective without having to rely on a game-saving in-game move.

I agree with a lot of this but think it is also symptomatic of what happens further down the ground. If it was a matter of a coach simply telling players when and where to lead and how to deliver the ball then every team would have a great forward line.

If you haven’t got the cattle and the confidence it is an extremely difficult thing to do.

 

[cotter101]

Voss should stay he coached us in to the finals in 2009,

promising start to 2010 but injuries to several key players made us loose confidence and forced to bring in young players.

2011 Brennan Risky fev Sherman left in the off season brown injured. when brown goes we are stuffed. but i liked McGrath in the forward line, rich played well. merret needed to play in defence the whole game. i would love to get sam day looked awesome.

 

[Dylan12]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Our list is not a seasoned, battle hardened bunch expect for Black/Power/Browny, they will have ups and downs.

Nor was the Suns, but they performed very well.

I am not pleased about this start either but we can't squarely lay the blame on Vossy or on the playing group.

So who then do you propose to lay the blame on?

 

[weevil]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

If Voss is the problem, you can see that through a distinct lack of trying in player's efforts. This is clearly not the case (minus GC, WB) - just bad luck that we couldn't get on board with a win yet.

That is the thing for me. We have had a number of games where the players have tired their guts out.

I can understand a young team dropping their bundle from time to time and some disappointing losses along the way. But they have to be interspersed with some absolutely-give-everything-you-got games. If not then I think Voss in is in real strife.

As others have said I feel sick about last night’s game, without doubt our worst loss in a long time.
But I watched the last quarter again and by god they tried. It really was a brilliant effort from both teams. I was so cranky and frustrated last night that I did not fully appreciate the effort the boys put it...and how bloody unlucky we were...