Never thought it would come to this

[Fullabull]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Sorry for intruding.


Personally, I'd give him till round 13 to turn it around. You play North an us at the Gabba, and should win both of those games. If Voss hasn't shown improvement by then sack him and look for a replacement, giving the incoming coach time to prepare for the draft and trade week.

Get real !!! - there will be very slim pickings from either the draft or trade week, and we have very little bargaining power as it is.

 

[bluepride]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Personally, I'd give him till round 13 to turn it around. You play North an us at the Gabba, and should win both of those games. If Voss hasn't shown improvement by then sack him and look for a replacement, giving the incoming coach time to prepare for the draft and trade week.

Pretty silly comment.

Voss knows his football is tactically pretty smart, needs better people surrounding him, but overall he should be kept as coach.

Any team that loses the quality of Brennan, Fevola, Rischa, Bradshaw, Brown, is going to struggle....dont worry.

Like I said before look at Johnny Worsfold everyone was going berserk asking for the axe and now he is playing them beyond their talents.

Brisbane just dont have the cattle they need to win games, just keep blooding new talent and keep at your gameplan regardless, because youll get pick 4 in the draft if you finish last and you will pick up a very very nice player.

 

[Stocka]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Voss knows his football is tactically pretty smart

Can you give an example of Voss's tactical aptitude?

 

[RU_]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

When I was watching the game last night, every time the Suns got on the rebound they killed us. Why did they ALWAYS have two players in the centre of the field while our players were off doing some other crap. Why can't they man up?

 

[bluepride]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Can you give an example of Voss's tactical aptitude?

The bloke like Hird, reads the game so well and just in the coaches box if you know your football you can see small things he does that dont come off simply because some of your players just cant perform them yet.

Moving Ash up forward was a great move last night, the way he moved Rich around the ground and stretch his tag was good....small things.

I suppose when your blinded by supporter passion you can have not much of an idea about your team....however taking pot shots at a good coach is better than what im saying.

 

[Stocka]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

The bloke like Hird, reads the game so well and just in the coaches box if you know your football

This all seems very arbitrary. Can you give us some tangibles?

you can see small things he does that dont come off simply because some of your players just cant perform them yet.

So his tactics are mismatched to the cohort of players that he has? Or he has not developed the capabilities of the players to be able to perform his instructions? Or he has not assembled a list of good enough quality? He's now in his third season of coaching the team, and the players still can't do what he's asking? Why is that?

Have you considered the possibility that what Voss is asking may just not be all that good, as well?

Moving Ash up forward was a great move last night,

It was a good positional move, but I wouldn't regard this as being an example of strategy.

the way he moved Rich around the ground and stretch his tag was good....small things.

Is this really a great tactical move? I'd say that this is more par for the course for the development of a midfielder.

I suppose when your blinded by supporter passion you can have not much of an idea about your team....however taking pot shots at a good coach is better than what im saying.

I am not sure what you mean by this comment.

 

[weevil]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

So his tactics are mismatched to the cohort of players that he has? Or he has not developed the capabilities of the players to be able to perform his instructions? Or he has not assembled a list of good enough quality? He's now in his third season of coaching the team, and the players still can't do what he's asking? Why is that?

Have you considered the possibility that what Voss is asking may just not be all that good, as well?

Have you considered the possibility that some of our players just cant perform them yet?

Can you tell me what tactics you would employ for players who aren't currently capable?

 

[bluepride]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

In regards to Rich, many coaches wouldve just left him in the middle because lets be honest here he was one of your only midfielders having a good game. Voss moved me along the wing where he still managed to get a rest instead of playing forward where mst coaches do with their star midfielders.

All Voss can do is tell the players what to do, and at the moment they just cant perform them and its nethier parties fault, however eveyone wants someone blame when things go bad.....maybe just maybe people are not experience enough yet and you have to give them time.

Voss isnt in charge of everything, yes they did scale back how much he was doing this year but there are many other people who are in charge of player mangment and other areas.....cant just simply blame the head coach for that.

Hes in his 3rd season...so what? He managed to beat Carlton who were in front by about 6 goals in a final......all due to some tactical moves.

Vossy is a good coach dont worry about that. Cut the bloke some slack.

 

[bluepride]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Can you tell me what tactics you would employ for players who aren't currently capable?

All you can do is keep telling them what the gameplan is and what their part in it is.

If they arent performing it YET, just keep telling them and they will eventually develop and learn the gameplan.....because if he cant do it the first time do you just throw in the towel and call him a dud because he aint playing to the level of a 26 year old bloke in his prime.

 

[Nevbuster]

There are two Scotts coaching that are better than Voss. Either would have been a better choice.

 

[weevil]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Hes in his 3rd season...so what? He managed to beat Carlton who were in front by about 6 goals in a final......all due to some tactical moves.

Vossy is a good coach dont worry about that. Cut the bloke some slack.

If the ball that hit the post and the dropping the ball had been called correctly you probably would find a much more open minded audience for this.

They are in full pitchfork mode right now.

 

[Stocka]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Have you considered the possibility that some of our players just cant perform them yet?

Very unwarranted facetious reply there, Weevil. Obviously I had considered that possibility in my response to the previous poster and had dismissed it as not being my conclusion. Or did you not recognise that?

Can you tell me what tactics you would employ for players who aren't currently capable?

How about playing players in positions to which they are better suited? For instance, not playing Clark at FF as a target to which the players bomb the ball in long on top of his head?

Mate, have you not been reading the numerous suggestions on this forum since we've been going downhill? Do you want me to paraphrase the better posts on this forum that have canvassed the issues over a long period of time just to prove a point to you right now?

I know you want to stick up for the team and keep the forum "balanced" and "enjoyable", but mate, you seem to want to argue just for argument's sake through rhetorical questioning without actually bringing up any specific point of agreement or disagreement.

 

[weevil]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

All you can do is keep telling them what the gameplan is and what their part in it is.

If they arent performing it YET, just keep telling them and they will eventually develop and learn the gameplan.....because if he cant do it the first time do you just throw in the towel and call him a dud because he aint playing to the level of a 26 year old bloke in his prime.

I was saying lots of these same things to our supporters in the mid to late 90s.

 

[bluepride]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Why wasnt Polec (however you spell it) playing?

 

[bluepride]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

I was saying lots of these same things to our supporters in the mid to late 90s.

Hahaha exactly, and those exact same people will come out saying how they always knew player x was a late bloomer or the gameplan was bound to work sometime .

Jordan Russell is a Carlton player who just kept developing very slowly and is now a key element of our HB line.

 

[weevil]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Very unwarranted facetious reply there, Weevil. Obviously I had considered that possibility in my response to the previous poster and had dismissed it as not being my conclusion. Or did you not recognise that?

No I did not and still do not recognise that.

How about playing players in positions to which they are better suited? For instance, not playing Clark at FF as a target to which the players bomb the ball in long on top of his head?

Mate, have you not been reading the numerous suggestions on this forum since we've been going downhill? Do you want me to paraphrase the better posts on this forum that have canvassed the issues over a long period of time just to prove a point to you right now?

I know you want to stick up for the team and keep the forum "balanced" and "enjoyable", but mate, you seem to want to argue just for argument's sake through rhetorical questioning without actually bringing up any specific point of agreement or disagreement.

Mate, listening to this form at the moment results in the opinion that you should chop and change the team as much as possible, drop everyone soon as they make a mistake and yet let everyone stay in every position on the ground for the rest of the season, change game plans at the drop of a hat, replace the entire senior side with the reserves and blame the coach for everything including injuries to key payers.

 

[Stocka]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

In regards to Rich, many coaches wouldve just left him in the middle because lets be honest here he was one of your only midfielders having a good game. Voss moved me along the wing where he still managed to get a rest instead of playing forward where mst coaches do with their star midfielders.

Aren't you just describing a standard midfield rotation that most (if not all) clubs employ? As I said earlier, par for the course.

All Voss can do is tell the players what to do, and at the moment they just cant perform them and its nethier parties fault, however eveyone wants someone blame when things go bad.....maybe just maybe people are not experience enough yet and you have to give them time.

So I suppose there is really no reason for why we are playing so poorly now and have been for quite some time! It's no-one's fault! I guess it's just one of life's absurdities, much like something from a Franz Kafka novel!

Perhaps AFL is like a scene from a Beckett play, such as "Waiting For Godot"...

Voss isnt in charge of everything, yes they did scale back how much he was doing this year but there are many other people who are in charge of player mangment and other areas.....cant just simply blame the head coach for that.

The buck stops with the person with the highest degree of responsibility. That's no different in any profession.

Hes in his 3rd season...so what?

What?

He managed to beat Carlton who were in front by about 6 goals in a final......all due to some tactical moves.

What tactical moves where they? I actually thought we overran Carlton because we simply played more determined, team-orientated football when it counted and had players stand up to the challenge as evidenced by their efforts to get to the ball first and apply pressure when they didn't. Yes, sure, Voss would have had a role in building the team up to this level of performance, but the fact that you point to ONE game back in 2009 in order to validate your point is a significant worry.

Vossy is a good coach dont worry about that. Cut the bloke some slack.

Oh, geez, OK mate. You've put my concerns to rest!

 

[weevil]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Hahaha exactly, and those exact same people will come out saying how they always knew player x was a late bloomer or the gameplan was bound to work sometime .

Welcome to BigFooty.

 

[Stocka]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

No I did not and still do not recognise that.

Well I can't help you then, Mr. President!

Mate, listening to this form at the moment results in the opinion that you should chop and change the team as much as possible, drop everyone soon as they make a mistake and yet let everyone stay in every position on the ground for the rest of the season, change game plans at the drop of a hat, replace the entire senior side with the reserves and blame the coach for everything including injuries to key payers.

As I said, "the better posts", which I realise is subjective to opinion, but I'm assuming that you don't immediately dismiss any criticism of Voss, the team or the club, no matter how well-written and resonant, as rubbish.

 

[bluepride]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Apparently Ratten doesnt have 1 tactical fiber in his body, yet we have lost 1 game in 6 rounds so far....care to explain the difference then between Brisbane and Carlton.

 

[weevil]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Well I can't help you then, Mr. President!

We a are allowed to dissagree about things you know

As I said, "the better posts", which I realise is subjective to opinion, but I'm assuming that you don't immediately dismiss any criticism of Voss, the team or the club, no matter how well-written and resonant, as rubbish.

No not at all. But I have been doing this footy thing long enough to realise that while people (including my good self) can have all the theories in the world it is extremely difficult to make a proper assessment of these things in the moment.

It can take years to actually see what is going on. As has just been said there has been monumental abuse thrown at Carlton's coach and list for years. They are going well now but the story is still not over. They have looked far, far worse than us in the past.

I also know that many a thing is said directly in the shadow of a great loss or great victory that turn out to be complete utter bumpkin.

I tend not to trust anything that does not contain many shades of grey.

 

[Stocka]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Apparently Ratten doesnt have 1 tactical fiber in his body, yet we have lost 1 game in 6 rounds so far....care to explain the difference then between Brisbane and Carlton.

So this proves your point about Voss being a great tactician, then, does it?

 

[bluepride]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Im just agreeing with you in theory that Voss is a bad tactician.

Carlton have lost 1 game and have a bad coach, so whats the difference between Brisbane and Carlton?

 

[Stocka]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

We a are allowed to dissagree about things you know

So you are disagreeing with me about what the meaning of one of my earlier statements happened to be? Next time I want to say something on here I'll PM you what I want to say first so that you can word it for me correctly then!

No not at all. But I have been doing this footy thing long enough to realise that while people (including my good self) can have all the theories in the world it is extremely difficult to make a proper assessment of these things in the moment.

It can take years to actually see what is going on. As has just been said there has been monumental abuse thrown at Carlton's coach and list for years. They are going well now but the story is still not over. They have looked far, far worse than us in the past.

I also know that many a thing is said directly in the shadow of a great loss or great victory that turn out to be complete utter bumpkin.

I tend not to trust anything that does not contain many shades of grey.

It seems to me as though you're generalising most of the posts on here as being "heat of the moment" fair, but considering your own judgement to be beyond that folly and therefore dismissing alternatives to your judgement as being made merely in the "heat of the moment".

I think that my assessments of things are fair and that I take a balanced approached, taking many factors into account (such as the fact that Voss is dealing with certain problems left by the previous hierarchy and other external factors such as AFL expansion). If you disagree, and feel that your judgement is superior, well, there's not much I can do.

However, I'm still yet to receive and objective and tangible answer from Bluepride that satisfies me as to how Voss is a good tactician, which is what my original question happened to be, prior to your intervention.

 

[Stocka]

Re: From a Carlton Supporter....

Im just agreeing with you in theory that Voss is a bad tactician.

I thought you said earlier that Voss was a good tactician? It was at that point that I asked you if you could give some examples of this statement. So far, you really haven't done so, apart from one or two details of things that happened in isolated matches as opposed to how our term performs overall.

I guess if this discussion is going to be limited to merely your "general feeling" then perhaps the discussion has concluded.

Carlton have lost 1 game and have a bad coach, so whats the difference between Brisbane and Carlton?

Do you think Ratten is a bad coach? It's not something that I've said.