Opinion AUSTRALIAN Politics: Adelaide Board Discussion Part 5

[StonesThrow]

Were committed to a current transition program. We just need "nonpolitical experts" telling us cost, timing and benefits on all proposals whether we like them or not.
Every time someone tries for a discussion it gets knocked back politically.

We've already got 'non political experts' doing costing on reactors and build times for Australia and they all point to the fact that it's not an option that should even be considered. Plus any policy decision also needs to factor in political constraints like state legislated bans.

Also, Dutton isn't proposing to do his own 'non political' cost-benefit. He's proposing to actually build them without having done a cost-benefit in the first place.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

"nonpolitical expert"


FYI
Dr Adi Paterson - Former Chief Executive Officer of the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation on 5AA today

 

[StonesThrow]

"nonpolitical expert"


FYI
Dr Adi Paterson - Former Chief Executive Officer of the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation on 5AA today

He just said the state premiers are fascist bullies not indistinguishable from Hitler. Sounds like a rational bloke.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

He just said the state premiers are fascist bullies not indistinguishable from Hitler. Sounds like a rational bloke.

That's what you took from that.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

https://www.energy.gov/articles/cop28-countries-launch-declaration-triple-nuclear-energy-capacity-2050-recognizing-key

So I'm confused, the green leaning people are now asking us to ignore COP 28?

 

[Vader]

https://www.energy.gov/articles/cop28-countries-launch-declaration-triple-nuclear-energy-capacity-2050-recognizing-key

So I'm confused, the green leaning people are now asking us to ignore COP 28?

I don't have a problem with the green credentials of nuclear power, and I think the reactors themselves are probably safe enough now (much safer than the older designs used in Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima). Nuclear is a great idea, if greenhouse emissions were the only consideration.

The problems boil down to:

• Time (they won't be available until 2040 at the very earliest - regardless of what Dutton thinks)
• Cost (both construction and running)
• Waste (we still don't have a home for the low-level waste from Lucas Heights, let alone high-level waste from multiple power stations)
• Network Stability (less of an issue for SMRs, but a huge problem for larger reactors)
• Legislation (nuclear generators are banned in NSW, Vic & QLD)

Essentially, it's a brain fart by Dutton, who hasn't done any cost-benefit analysis, and whose scheme as announced yesterday is both unaffordable and unachievable. As people have pointed out, this isn't about nuclear, it's about keeping coal going for as long as possible, despite everyone other than the Federal LNP recognising the need to phase out coal ASAP.

 

[StonesThrow]

That's what you took from that.

If Kerry Schott came out and said Peter Dutton is the same as Hitler, I probably wouldn't value her judgement on energy policy anymore.

 

[Slippery Pete]

If Kerry Schott came out and said Peter Dutton is the same as Hitler, I probably wouldn't value her judgement on energy policy anymore.

That rules out most of our lovely lefties on here

Hitler would be proud of hard righties like the potato head…

 

[relapse]

It appears the proposed sitea are as follows, including Port Augusta in SA.

Peter Dutton has announced the sites for proposed nuclear reactors. Here's what comes next

Peter Dutton faces stiff opposition to his nuclear ambitions due to wall-to-wall Labor state governments, but figures it's simply a choice between the carrot or the stick.

www.abc.net.au

Just can't see how Dutton is going to convince all the states to buy into it.

I'm definitely not against nuclear, however I do think they've most probably missed the boat on it now.

I still think it's going to be almost impossible to sell to the public.

 

[Sanders]

my point isn't irrelevant

i responded to someone who said 'never join a union'

I disagreed because my unionised industry helped me earn a wage that i had never previously accessed

The union directly helped / benefited me

Ofcourse there is an entire class of folks who have reached a level of affluence without union help, I never said it was the case. But for many people, unionised workforces is the easiest way to achieve that - we don't all have trust funds, family inheritance or unique skills that can demand above average wages - we're called the working class

You have absolutely no counter factual to know if that’s true

Certainly your argument is underpinned by a personal belief that your labour isn’t valuable on its own, and only by hiding behind a union collective could you obtain benefits greater than your worth

Which is a bizarre take, and strangely enough probably not even true.

The highest paid jobs in society are not unionised and frankly every time you read about someone earning what you think is too much, they are unlikely to be unionised

Stable, reliable and consistent workers, even those of broadly unremarkable skill levels are more valuable than you realise to employers and industry. All you need to do is be consistent and reliable and you have some leverage

Unions, whom you pay, are invested in ensuring you don’t realise this. Their message is that cannot succeed without them, so pay them to look after you

I once operated a large workforce in a traditionally unionised industry, and I refused to recognise and allow a unionised workforce. Which was legal as they weren’t already unionised so I didn’t have to let them in

That workforce was all paid well above normal industry rates because a motivated, stable & consistent workforce is more valuable to management than your conflicted comrades would have you believe.

Companies need good people: be good people

 

[Sanders]

You can not like a leader but still support what they represent.

I'm pro Israel but think Netanyahu is a horrendous leader with terrible policies. Doesn't make me anti who he represents though.

How very on trend

 

[Sanders]

I'll give you a little example of the value of unions. Prior to 85, superannuation was an option, not a compulsory obligation. Employers often used superannuation as a carrot to keep staff around. They'd do this by employing a "vesting" scale, where a proportion of employer contributions plus interest would be payable to the employee, based on years of service. Often, the vesting scales had stupidly long periods before anything would be available to the employee. Sometimes, those scales were so hilariously skewed, the employer would end up with everything, because non vested money would remain in the fund, and the employer would be last man standing. And before you cry bullshit, I could name half a dozen off the top of my head, because I managed those super funds.

There are no benevolent employers. That's fair enough too. Unions and other forms of regulations are there to create a balance between employers right to profit and an employees rights to fair working conditions. I know you're just parroting what your daddy told you, but if you apply some independant thinking, you can see that any system needs opposing forces in order to obtain balance.

/school

Just wow?!?

There are no benevolent employers? WTF

Wage conditions aren’t largesse or gifts showered from on high.

Compensation isn’t benevolence, human capital is the single biggest market differentiator in the modern world - something that has been true for decades; something taught in elite business schools - never more so than now.

Whatever people think about DEI it’s a movement about unlocking human capital and productivity. Even if it’s lost it’s way in some respects

People running businesses know how important good people are, the idea that they’re secretly trying to work against their employees is cartoon stuff

Badly drawn cartoons at that

 

[StonesThrow]

That rules out most of our lovely lefties on here

Yeah and I wouldn't trust his opinion on a football game

 

[feenix67]

Just wow?!?

There are no benevolent employers? WTF

Wage conditions aren’t largesse or gifts showered from on high.

Compensation isn’t benevolence, human capital is the single biggest market differentiator in the modern world - something that has been true for decades; something taught in elite business schools - never more so than now.

Whatever people think about DEI it’s a movement about unlocking human capital and productivity. Even if it’s lost it’s way in some respects

People running businesses know how important good people are, the idea that they’re secretly trying to work against their employees is cartoon stuff

Badly drawn cartoons at that

Yeah, sure. Cool story.

 

[Sanders]

Yeah, sure. Cool story.

Lol. Speaking of conflicted comrades

 

[Sanders]

This is the average wage growth in the US charted against Australia

United States Wages and Salaries Growth

Wages in the United States increased 4.87 percent in April of 2024 over the same month in the previous year. This page provides the latest reported value for - United States Wages and Salaries Growth - plus previous releases, historical high and low, short-term forecast and long-term...

tradingeconomics.com

“

Wages in the United States increased 4.87 percent in April of 2024 over the same month in the previous year. Wage Growth in the United States averaged 6.19 percent from 1960 until 2024, reaching an all time high of 15.28 percent in April of 2021 and a record low of -5.89 percent in April of 2020. source: U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis”​

the Labour market in the US is famously deregulated; and it grows faster (much faster) than the EU, UK or Australia

Despite the high union presence in these countries.

 

[feenix67]

This is the average wage growth in the US charted against Australia

United States Wages and Salaries Growth

Wages in the United States increased 4.87 percent in April of 2024 over the same month in the previous year. This page provides the latest reported value for - United States Wages and Salaries Growth - plus previous releases, historical high and low, short-term forecast and long-term...

tradingeconomics.com

“

Wages in the United States increased 4.87 percent in April of 2024 over the same month in the previous year. Wage Growth in the United States averaged 6.19 percent from 1960 until 2024, reaching an all time high of 15.28 percent in April of 2021 and a record low of -5.89 percent in April of 2020. source: U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis”​

View attachment 2025195

View attachment 2025194

the Labour market in the US is famously deregulated; and it grows faster (much faster) than the EU, UK or Australia

Despite the high union presence in these countries.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. Wages are always driven by the market. There's no employer who will pay more than they need to for staff. What they "need to" is driven by a variety of factors but at the lower end of the scale it is largely driven by unions, particularly blue collar and public sector.

Show me an employer that says stuff it, I'll just pay you an extra 20k above what the market says you're worth ie a benevolent employer. They don't exist.

 

[Sanders]

Savage. And true

““Australia is a lucky country run mainly by second rate people who share its luck.”

“Harvard studies have found that Australia has the economic complexity profile of a developing country. We are less economically complex than Senegal and other impoverished developing countries. At the moment we are a nation of holes and homes. A mining colony with a housing bubble attached to it. “

 

[Sanders]

I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

That much is painfully obvious; thankfully the intended audience is more than just you

Wages are always driven by the market. There's no employer who will pay more than they need to for staff. What they "need to" is driven by a variety of factors but at the lower end of the scale it is largely driven by unions, particularly blue collar and public sector.

Show me an employer that says stuff it, I'll just pay you an extra 20k above what the market says you're worth ie a benevolent employer. They don't exist.

And to think you thought you were “schooling” George earlier, with this reductive, schoolboy tosh

 

[Mostyn]

I have absolutely no interest in joining this discussion - but I think any discussion of USA average incomes is pretty misleading, because there's a pretty big difference between their average and their median incomes.

The USA has some very high earning industries that would throw the average off, surely.

And I don't think the point of unions is to protect rising executive salaries, as they'll take care of themselves as businesses compete for elite talent.

It's to protect those who businesses would consider more cannon fodder labour and pay minimum wage to, without union protections.

 

[kirky]

I don't have a problem with the green credentials of nuclear power, and I think the reactors themselves are probably safe enough now (much safer than the older designs used in Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima). Nuclear is a great idea, if greenhouse emissions were the only consideration.

The problems boil down to:

• Time (they won't be available until 2040 at the very earliest - regardless of what Dutton thinks)
• Cost (both construction and running)
• Waste (we still don't have a home for the low-level waste from Lucas Heights, let alone high-level waste from multiple power stations)
• Network Stability (less of an issue for SMRs, but a huge problem for larger reactors)
• Legislation (nuclear generators are banned in NSW, Vic & QLD)

Essentially, it's a brain fart by Dutton, who hasn't done any cost-benefit analysis, and whose scheme as announced yesterday is both unaffordable and unachievable. As people have pointed out, this isn't about nuclear, it's about keeping coal going for as long as possible, despite everyone other than the Federal LNP recognising the need to phase out coal ASAP.

I don’t think many people don’t want nuclear power, the issues are timeline and cost. And of course Mr Potato Head says no private investment. Why? Because private investment wouldn’t be prepared to wear the cost of blowouts which will inevitably happen.

Now remember only two will be online from 2035/2037 with the others in 2040’s. And SA isn’t get a standard nuclear power station. We and WA are getting these smaller module ones, which currently don’t exist. It won’t be the solution given look how far renewables and battery storage have come in the past 8 years. Shit, we didn’t even have our first battery in 2016.

All this is is to delay investment in renewables coz it doesn’t fit with the Coalition ideology. Pure and simple.

 

[Rags_118]

Just wow?!?

There are no benevolent employers? WTF

Wage conditions aren’t largesse or gifts showered from on high.

Compensation isn’t benevolence, human capital is the single biggest market differentiator in the modern world - something that has been true for decades; something taught in elite business schools - never more so than now.

Whatever people think about DEI it’s a movement about unlocking human capital and productivity. Even if it’s lost it’s way in some respects

People running businesses know how important good people are, the idea that they’re secretly trying to work against their employees is cartoon stuff

Badly drawn cartoons at that

DEI unlocking productivity ….. you’re having a laugh!

It’s a political mantra that has invaded workplaces where social compliance is now undertaken to avoid public shaming by highly vocal, highly politicised minority groups.

While diversity of thought and openness to challenge are critical to innovation and future success for an organisation, the challenging task of managing significant differences in cultural values within an organisation is a proven productivity killer.

DEI often sees organisational training focus move away from building the skills required for professional and business success to forcing staff to tick off training boxes to show that the organisation really cares about the various victimhood issues of our time.

DEI is a cancer and a contributor to Australia’s declining productivity levels.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Did some stuff get moved over here….

 

[Slippery Pete]

I have absolutely no interest in joining this discussion

Proceeds to join discussion

 

[Slippery Pete]

All you need to do is be consistent and reliable and you have some lever age

Very true. These are Slippery Pete’s golden rules:

1. Show up early, don’t leave early.
2. Don’t office gossip.
3. Don’t shit where you eat.
4. If you get a task, don’t rest until it’s done.

Do just those four things & you’ll be ahead of 95% of the workforce.

To be in the top 5% you’ll have to subscribe to the Cartel Podcast.