next brisbane coach (after voss)

[wowlace]

Haven't read the whole thread, but bar all the player trading I think Voss is a pretty good coach. He seems to get the boys up and about, they wanna play for him. Brissy will win some games this year, and maybe give Voss another year to see what he can come up with.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Haven't read the whole thread, but bar all the player trading I think Voss is a pretty good coach. He seems to get the boys up and about, they wanna play for him.

I don't think that too many would disagree with that. It's team selection and match-day operations that seem to be causing concern amongst the faithful.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

Personally i think it is not measured in wins and losses for 2011. I think it is in noticable improvement in the team, opportunity and improvement in the young guys and not so much reliance on the usual suspects and overall competitiveness, player passion, desire and external respect. Some sign that we are on the way up and not easy beats. It cannot be a place in the finals or else. I think that is unrealistic.

The question I asked was what is the pass mark for 2012?

I agree with VTB in wins & losses are almost irrevelant. If we had of pinched it last night would that be a pass or merely just covering the cracks?

The concerns are the same areas, clearances, kick-outs, etc. These should be part of the coaching KPIs.

Just to concentrate on these two:

Kick-Outs - I made the point last week that Handley should not be kicking out & he has played what 20 Games of AFL in his life. 1st point for the GC, Handley kick outs to Luke Power (poor choice) outnumbered, turn over goal to GC & they are on there way. If it is obvious to me why is it not to those that matter.
What is are current kick-in strategy? Bomb it long to a contest. We are clearly the worst club in the league for kick-ins.

Clearances - smashed again. Ironically by the likes of Rischa & Brennan (an area we struggled with when they where with us). Have we improved in this area? Again another area that we are clearly the worse in the league. Play man on man at the bounces, at least make it a contest!! To often we are playing off opponents.

Would we be better off with anyone else?
Who would want the job given the current predicament? Future compromised drafts, etc.

 

[MacMum]

Would we be better off with anyone else?

I doubt it very much..

It was terrible last night, and massive mistakes were made by both Voss AND players, but IMO the call for Voss's head is another massive mistake and total over-reaction to be honest..

 

[dlanod]

The problem at the moment is that it seems to be two steps forward, one step back - if we're lucky. We've seen some good kids come through in the last couple of years, and credit to Voss where it's due in developing them. But we also still have the same problems we've had since 2005-2006.

We seem to have largely rid ourselves of players who consistently sell other players up the creek with their disposal, but as a team we still do it far too often. Clearances are still an issue. Our forward line structure is still an issue. At least we've improved our midfield.

The question becomes then, if we haven't improved in those vital areas under three years of Voss, when will we improve under him?

 

[roostersgal4eva]

Hirds job is also easier as Knights did the tough yards for him. This fact appears lost on the vast majority of the media & public, as they are too wrapped up in the Hird saviour story. Look at the likes of Ryder, Hurley, Hooker, Pears, Gumbleton (if ever fit), as a spine going forward & then look at ours. They are now just filling the gaps with Heppells, etc & are on their way.

At some stage for the betterment of a club someone needs to make a decision to build & follow it through. We appear to have finally made it but I highly doubt Vossy will be the one to see the eventual fruits of it.

Lots of pain for someones elses eventual gain will be Vossys legacy as a coach, if he does get an extension.

Very True - whoever would of been next in line would always be on a hiding to nothing.

Thats why Voss should of had the same setup as Hird does with Essendon - Williams, Laidley were avalible for a start and if i can get my brain to work on a Sun Morning I could think of a few more...

 

[Stocka]

Williams and Laidley were still coaching their former clubs when Voss started.

 

[Lions89]

If he was to quit (highly unlikely), or be sacked (still unlikely) who would you like to see get the job? I am not to familiar with many of the assistants around the AFL, and would they want to take the job on anyway given our pathetic situation?

I ask this about the assistants as people have already stated Malthouse won't leave Melbourne, and Roos would be fantastic, however I think it would be a long shot given that we are strapped for cash as it is, and reports are saying he may already be on his way to a Melbourne club.

 

[DrummoSolo]

I doubt it very much..

It was terrible last night, and massive mistakes were made by both Voss AND players, but IMO the call for Voss's head is another massive mistake and total over-reaction to be honest..

Out of interest, did you watch the press conference after? I've wanted Voss to succeed, I really have, but most indicators right now read that this situation has gotten out of his hands. I've been wanting to be a fan until now, but oh boy, it's getting hard.

My opinion is that he MUST coach the year out at least - there's no-one else ready for it. But the board should start scouting for assistants at other clubs with no history at Brisbane, or successful state-level coaches, and if we find the right person, pull the trigger. No Malthouse, no Roos. Wonderful pipe dreams, but we don't have the money or appeal for either. Start fresh.

 

[dlanod]

If he was to quit (highly unlikely), or be sacked (still unlikely) who would you like to see get the job? I am not to familiar with many of the assistants around the AFL, and would they want to take the job on anyway given our pathetic situation?

I ask this about the assistants as people have already stated Malthouse won't leave Melbourne, and Roos would be fantastic, however I think it would be a long shot given that we are strapped for cash as it is, and reports are saying he may already be on his way to a Melbourne club.

I don't know that firing Voss immediately is the right plan. I don't really see the benefit in that. I think that if the decision is made to remove him, the best bet is to let him see out his contract.

 

[roostersgal4eva]

Williams and Laidley were still coaching their former clubs when Voss started.

but they were avaliable at the end of 2010 when we had a shocker.....

 

[Hollow Knight]

I am am now ambivalent about Voss.

The Merrett up forward thing was asinine. Vossy trying to be way too clever and outsmarted himself. Points for creativity I guess but he was once again far too slow and/or stubborn to make the change fast enough when it wasn't working.

Would have loved to see him become a premiership coach for us but that seems farther and farther away than ever. There is a possibility he may become a good coach but the likelihood of him becoming a great coach seems a pipe dream.

Roos and Malthouse are also pipe dreams and I hope people save their breath and stop talking about them. Mark Neeld or Brendan McCartney on the other hand... that is a conversation worth having.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

On Voss, I get the feeling that he'd be a fantastic assistant coach. I think on a basic level he communicates with the players very well.

But what we saw last night in McKenna was a coach who has a good idea as to install a discipline in his players. I'm sick of watching other teams playing like they know what they're going to do with the ball before they've got it. I can't remember us looking like that in recent memory. I just feel that Voss has little idea about structure and tactic in modern football.

 

[Stocka]

but they were avaliable at the end of 2010 when we had a shocker.....

The Titanic was already at the bottom of the ocean by that stage!

 

[The Flying Belgian]

The other thing that occurred to me watching last night when spying guys who stood back waiting for other doing the work.

Voss won his flag under a coach whose mantra was "know your role". However I'm not sure that applies in the modern game (and I hate using that term, but afriad it seems to be a reality - there is such a thing as modern footy). Versatility is king. When I saw Daniel Harris hit up on a lead with authority and purpose, I wondered why none of our players seem to do that (McGrath's second half notwithstanding). Is it because it's someone else role? It seems to be the case as we persist in looking at structures that won us the three flags i.e. kick to the big leading forward. Now I'm not arguing that big forwards are not effective, but we're not as versatile as we could be. People rubbish it, but Carlton's unpredictable forward line isn't such a bad thing. We seem overly reticent to look at a forward line structure that is small and mobile

 

[roostersgal4eva]

The Titanic was already at the bottom of the ocean by that stage!

even more reason to bring their experiance in dont you think?

 

[DrummoSolo]

even more reason to bring their experiance in dont you think?

I can't speak for Williams, but I think you'll find the only reason Laidley stayed at Port was because they begged him and allowed him to work from Melbourne, and commute to Adelaide for the games. Not likely to get him to travel all the way to Brisbane, and even then, considering how Port are travelling, would he really be the difference?

 

[Hollow Knight]

even more reason to bring their experiance in dont you think?

To be fair, we brought in a very experienced assistant in Gary O Donnell.

Laidley hasn't managed to derabble Port.

Williams is a bit of a knob. I admit that more changes are needed but certainty don't think we missed a great opportunity in Laidley or Williams.

 

[thoselionslads]

I am am now ambivalent about Voss.

The Merrett up forward thing was asinine. Vossy trying to be way too clever and outsmarted himself. Points for creativity I guess but he was once again far too slow and/or stubborn to make the change fast enough when it wasn't working.

Would have loved to see him become a premiership coach for us but that seems farther and farther away than ever. There is a possibility he may become a good coach but the likelihood of him becoming a great coach seems a pipe dream.

Roos and Malthouse are pipe dreams and I hope people save their breath and stop talking about them. Mark Neeld or Brendan McCartney on the other hand... that is a conversation worth having.

My thoughts exactly.

I held off coming on here last night after the game as I felt that I could not post something constructive or rational. I thought that a couple of beers and a good nights sleep would help my anger subside...

In the 12 and a-bit years that I have been a lions member I have never felt so embarrassed. I am not entirely sure that sacking Voss halfway through the season would achieve much. The couple of players that I know personally would do anything for Vossy, so it's not a matter of him lacking the ability to connect to the players. It is a matter of looking at the results/performances and trying to grasp where our playing group, and our coaching staff, have improved. After 3 years under Voss we still get smashed in the clearances, we continually go in too top heavy, any team with any resemblance of outside leg speed kills us.

Rant over.

 

[Stocka]

Yeah, TFB, I have had a strong impression for a number of years, that a lot of thinking at the Lions is geared towards an inflexible adherence to a "Lions brand" of football in which we put most of our eggs in the basket of having monster-size key forwards and monster-size key defenders and a whole host of rucks. I think that we were also overly influenced by the notion that Sydney were able to make it to two GFs and win one of them on the basis of a cast of "Ford Cortinas" as opposed to "Rolls Royces" in the midfield and then we recruited according to this belief. Now, either Sydney were an anomaly in the modern game and were able to win with Ford Cortinas, or we've greatly underrated how good their midfield actually was with the likes of Goodes, Kirk, Bolton and others. Unfortunately for the Lions though, we have not invested enough in recruiting gun midfielders or highly skilled small forwards who are also a hallmark of the modern game (as evidenced by a number of recent premiership teams). People identified all the way back to the start of 2007 that we were slow and outdated in the midfield stocks and yet, 4-5 years on, we really don't appear to look all that different in this key area of the game than what we did at that time.

The sad thing is, that I still get the impression that the club still embraces the old "Lions brand" of football and that there's not a great deal of change being displayed in how the team is being developed.

 

[Skoob]

Is Burton in charge of fitness down there?
On reflection so far, a lot of our woes could be attributed to fitness IMO.
McGrath was good lastnight but over the season he has lagged too far behind his opponent too often.
Same I would say for Patfull. Just really out of touch. Up the other end, Clark slumps
after running 10 metres as though he has just run a marathon.
OK. he runs alot but he does look spent by about 5 min into the first quarter.
So many of our boys are just fumbling which could well be put down to exhaustion.
Some guys like Toddy are making the effort to get to the ball but just aren't composed enough to do much when they get there.
Maybe off to Arizona is the go.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Maybe off to Arizona is the go.

With our current finances we'd struggle to afford altitude training at Mt Coot-tha let alone Arizona.

 

[T Factor]

Our defenders are lagging behind their opponents consistently this year and it is costing us, maybe it is fitness? I would have thought we are too often reacting to their man rather than going in hard after the ball, merrett seems to be only one attacking the ball. How many spoils or marks did we drop last night only to have a Suns player crumb the ball....sigh.

 

[Stocka]

even more reason to bring their experiance in dont you think?

No, I don't.

 

[Skoob]

The other thing that occurred to me watching last night when spying guys who stood back waiting for other doing the work.

Voss won his flag under a coach whose mantra was "know your role". However I'm not sure that applies in the modern game (and I hate using that term, but afriad it seems to be a reality - there is such a thing as modern footy). Versatility is king. When I saw Daniel Harris hit up on a lead with authority and purpose, I wondered why none of our players seem to do that (McGrath's second half notwithstanding). Is it because it's someone else role? It seems to be the case as we persist in looking at structures that won us the three flags i.e. kick to the big leading forward. Now I'm not arguing that big forwards are not effective, but we're not as versatile as we could be. People rubbish it, but Carlton's unpredictable forward line isn't such a bad thing. We seem overly reticent to look at a forward line structure that is small and mobile

Nail on the head stuff there.
I think TBD touched on it in another thread as I have done, the "style" is not having our boys man up when the opposition has the ball. All too often it looks like we have 15 men playing a team of 30.
Lastnight at one point we had about 5 players at centre wing so we kick over their head to a 2 on 3 contest. Surprise surprise, turnover. Those half dozen guys on the wing have all run off their man in the corridor.(or their opponent has run off them into the corridor.)