NFNL 2023 Div 1 discussion

[HELLSBELLS]

How is Ryall going at West Preston ?

 

[Regular Punter]

If the rumours I'm hearing about Bundys twos are true, the negative follow on effect of really only focusing recruiting these big names has already well and truly kicked in. It's all well and good when the Senior team has everyone available, but reality is that happens rarely with injuries etc. Can never underestimate depth, especially in the middle of the season.

 

[10571z]

If the rumours I'm hearing about Bundys twos are true, the negative follow on effect of really only focusing recruiting these big names has already well and truly kicked in. It's all well and good when the Senior team has everyone available, but reality is that happens rarely with injuries etc. Can never underestimate depth, especially in the middle of the season.

I wouldn’t be to hyper critical. They’ve won how many 2s flags in a row? Their coach has left and now look to have a lean year. Not that surprising.

They’ve won plenty of flags in both grades I think they’ll be fine.

 

[nosecondprize]

I wouldn’t be to hyper critical. They’ve won how many 2s flags in a row? Their coach has left and now look to have a lean year. Not that surprising.

They’ve won plenty of flags in both grades I think they’ll be fine.

Your more optimistic then the actual club itself. They've never struggled to put a team on the park ever.
And they already know there are a chunk of senior players who won't be there next year. It's a massive worry for mine and I can see another Northcote park story unfolding. They need to win the premiership this year.

 

[Denny Crane]

I think you will find many clubs are going to struggle with 2s numbers this year and in coming years.

The tradies that now know they cannot make 1s or on the fringe are more and more looking at working Saturday to try and get ahead in life due to current economic environment and that's very understandable.

The requirement to win a flag and sustain a culture that 2s players are happy walks a fine line.

 

[10571z]

I think you will find many clubs are going to struggle with 2s numbers this year and in coming years.

The tradies that now know they cannot make 1s or on the fringe are more and more looking at working Saturday to try and get ahead in life due to current economic environment and that's very understandable.

The requirement to win a flag and sustain a culture that 2s players are happy walks a fine line.

1st, 2nds and 3rds open age… (even 4ths if numbers allow)

Kids finish juniors and then they can play for their home club.

Reserves football for most (not all) is just about filling numbers and not development at the moment.

Would need to be a statewide directive and would take a little adjustment but I think it’s best for the game

 

[oldtimer]

1st, 2nds and 3rds open age… (even 4ths if numbers allow)

Kids finish juniors and then they can play for their home club.

Reserves football for most (not all) is just about filling numbers and not development at the moment.

Would need to be a statewide directive and would take a little adjustment but I think it’s best for the game

If that were to happen then 70% of juniors would not continue to senior club. By having 19s, it provides the middle ground that keeps boys involved within the club. Once they are established in the senior club then they are more of a chance to stay.

 

[10571z]

If that were to happen then 70% of juniors would not continue to senior club. By having 19s, it provides the middle ground that keeps boys involved within the club. Once they are established in the senior club then they are more of a chance to stay.

What’s the 70% based off? a hunch? You know kids are playing AFL at 18, many are playing seniors at local level or filling in for the ressies from a young age. These are 18 year old men, not kids.

The culture would shift eventually. Atm plenty of kids quit post juniors, plenty quit post 19s.

Majority of clubs aren’t getting 70 on the track every night. Most are getting 40-50 if they are lucky. They’d be far better off splitting those between 2 sides than 3 and diluting reserves and 19s with blokes who don’t care and need to be talked into playing.

Most clubs would have 2 sides of blokes who train 100% and then a thirds with their more social footballers, be far better to keep blokes interested with guys of a similar standard and commitment level playing together.

 

[NorthernBastard]

Whilst I don't know if it would be as big as 70%, I'm sure you'd see more kids drop off if you went from juniors to 3rds/2nds footy, and eliminated 19s.

At every club I've been involved at there is always a few boys who will play 19's, and never go on past that to play regularly in the 2s etc... so you lose them straight away, and then from that group that come and play 19's you can hopefully provide an environment that they then want to stay in past that age group.

Absolutely no doubt there are some kids that will slot straight in and love open age footy, and for some clubs fielding all 3 teams is a strain, but I don't believe removal of this is the answer.

 

[nosecondprize]

Whilst I don't know if it would be as big as 70%, I'm sure you'd see more kids drop off if you went from juniors to 3rds/2nds footy, and eliminated 19s.

At every club I've been involved at there is always a few boys who will play 19's, and never go on past that to play regularly in the 2s etc... so you lose them straight away, and then from that group that come and play 19's you can hopefully provide an environment that they then want to stay in past that age group.

Absolutely no doubt there are some kids that will slot straight in and love open age footy, and for some clubs fielding all 3 teams is a strain, but I don't believe removal of this is the answer.

100% correct. To remove the 19s is actually a bloody stupid idea and to try and say there are 18 year old kids playing AFL and comparing it to local footy is ridiculous. Those 18 year old kids have been through elite programs that have programmed them and got them ready for senior footy. Not gone from local junior level, straight to senior footy. Totally different scenario.

There are so many 17/18 year old kids playing local u/19s that aren't even close to ready to play senior football. Those couple of years are massive in there development, before they hit seniors. You would lose hundreds, if but thousands of kids around the country who are forced to go from u/17 footy, straight into seniors.

It's clearly not the answer and will never happen.

 

[10571z]

100% correct. To remove the 19s is actually a bloody stupid idea and to try and say there are 18 year old kids playing AFL and comparing it to local footy is ridiculous. Those 18 year old kids have been through elite programs that have programmed them and got them ready for senior footy. Not gone from local junior level, straight to senior footy. Totally different scenario.

There are so many 17/18 year old kids playing local u/19s that aren't even close to ready to play senior football. Those couple of years are massive in there development, before they hit seniors. You would lose hundreds, if but thousands of kids around the country who are forced to go from u/17 footy, straight into seniors.

It's clearly not the answer and will never happen.

I wouldn’t bet it’ll never happen. 4 d1 MPFNL folded their 19s this year and 10+ clubs disbanded in the off season. Times are changing.

 

[EBERT THE KING]

I wouldn’t bet it’ll never happen. 4 d1 MPFNL folded their 19s this year and 10+ clubs disbanded in the off season. Times are changing.

Removing their 19s is just a last resort because its mandatory to field a reserves side in senior competitions. Ill be interested to see how these MPNFL clubs reserves actually go this season in terms of numbers. Only a handful of kids will hang around.

Its imperative to have an age restricted competition as part of the senior club. Whether its under 19s,21s,23s doesnt really matter.

As mentioned earlier, the economic climate isnt helping at all.

 

[10571z]

100% correct. To remove the 19s is actually a bloody stupid idea and to try and say there are 18 year old kids playing AFL and comparing it to local footy is ridiculous. Those 18 year old kids have been through elite programs that have programmed them and got them ready for senior footy. Not gone from local junior level, straight to senior footy. Totally different scenario.

There are so many 17/18 year old kids playing local u/19s that aren't even close to ready to play senior football. Those couple of years are massive in there development, before they hit seniors. You would lose hundreds, if but thousands of kids around the country who are forced to go from u/17 footy, straight into seniors.

It's clearly not the answer and will never happen.

It’ll never happen? You sure?

A premier rated league in Victoria is heavily considering it for next season. Under 17s then into seniors and reserves.

Thousands are quitting in droves already hence we’ve seen 10+ teams fall over in 1 off season.

 

[Number 9]

Just my opinion, but would standardising junior playing levels (across ALL leagues in Victoria, or Australia for that fact) to even numbers (U/8, U/10, U/12, U/14, U/16 & U/18) possibly help in preventing players leaving the game in droves? Kids can't (legally) drink until their 18 and they can't drive themselves around.

Then every senior club has an U/20's, Reserves and Senior team. This gives kids that are good enough an opportunity to step straight in to senior footy or stay in a protected, under age group if they aren't as advanced. They've also got licences by then and can stand on their own 2 feet and not rely on their parents and can attend club functions and have a drink and really soak up the atmosphere.

There's no real quick fix and i'm sure the above will have holes punched through it but it's an opinion.

 

[EBERT THE KING]

It’ll never happen? You sure?

A premier rated league in Victoria is heavily considering it for next season. Under 17s then into seniors and reserves.

Thousands are quitting in droves already hence we’ve seen 10+ teams fall over in 1 off season.

So hypothetically, what happens to a 17 year old kid who is in the top 5 players in his under 17 team, who then goes up to a senior club but becomes the 35th - 40th best player on that list, he just has to play reserves with 30-35 year old blokes running around with mates like what Bundoora had last year?

Great for that kids development. That will turn him away quicker than anything. Will play one year max and then be out of the sport.

On the flip side these kids now have to play against a fully grown 25 year old who is the 23rd best player on that list, and is pushing for seniors. Massive physical development gap between a 17 year old and a 25 year old. Thats one of the main reasons the under 19s comp exists.

What you are suggesting makes no sense. What makes sense is moving the competition to an entirely Friday night run competition. Play the games at neutral venues if need be due to lighting, but move it away from the Saturday morning timeslot. Also increase it to an Under 20s competition. Allow for three years development for all kids in that grade. Build some rivalries between clubs that will then flow through to the seniors when they age out of that division.

Also allows the kids to work Saturday mornings for extra $$ if they are tradies or at Uni.

 

[MortlockWatcher]

The Perth Football League runs Colts (U/20), Reserves and Seniors and the set-up works well enough. It seems to be a better retention system as the guys coming out of Colts are 20 and as big and strong as Reserves or Seniors players, given that the average age of most PFL senior teams is under 25 and the reserves may be a tad older.

Players are more likely to drop out at 15-17 than 20.

 

[10571z]

Some good ideas thrown around. One way or another I think the system needs a rework to get with the modern times.

Maybe Friday night footy is a good place to start.

 

[NorthernBastard]

Just my opinion, but would standardising junior playing levels (across ALL leagues in Victoria, or Australia for that fact) to even numbers (U/8, U/10, U/12, U/14, U/16 & U/18) possibly help in preventing players leaving the game in droves? Kids can't (legally) drink until their 18 and they can't drive themselves around.

Then every senior club has an U/20's, Reserves and Senior team.

This would be great - it's very confusing with different leagues and systems currently used

 

[kickthething]

1st, 2nds and 3rds open age… (even 4ths if numbers allow)

Kids finish juniors and then they can play for their home club.

Reserves football for most (not all) is just about filling numbers and not development at the moment.

Would need to be a statewide directive and would take a little adjustment but I think it’s best for the game

The YJFL going to under 18s has kept some of 19s pipeline for affected clubs thin

 

[10571z]

So hypothetically, what happens to a 17 year old kid who is in the top 5 players in his under 17 team, who then goes up to a senior club but becomes the 35th - 40th best player on that list, he just has to play reserves with 30-35 year old blokes running around with mates like what Bundoora had last year?

Great for that kids development. That will turn him away quicker than anything. Will play one year max and then be out of the sport.

On the flip side these kids now have to play against a fully grown 25 year old who is the 23rd best player on that list, and is pushing for seniors. Massive physical development gap between a 17 year old and a 25 year old. Thats one of the main reasons the under 19s comp exists.

What you are suggesting makes no sense. What makes sense is moving the competition to an entirely Friday night run competition. Play the games at neutral venues if need be due to lighting, but move it away from the Saturday morning timeslot. Also increase it to an Under 20s competition. Allow for three years development for all kids in that grade. Build some rivalries between clubs that will then flow through to the seniors when they age out of that division.

Also allows the kids to work Saturday mornings for extra $$ if they are tradies or at Uni.

What happens hypoethically?

A man who is now 18 has finished his juniors and enters a senior club. He will be picked in 1st, 2nds or 3rds. If he is good he will go straight into the seconds or seniors, if he needs more time the thirds. Kids will develop a lot quicker playing with mature bodies than glorified juniors under 19s.

People can say “but kids will leave”

Look at West Preston this season, struggling for 2’s after 19’s last year had 2 sides? Where have the kids gone? They should have 40 missing out. Same with Boro, strong juniors and 19’s for decades and apparently short of 2’s. Kids leave any way, hence why we have a massive player shortage state wide.

Maybe watch some under 17’s if you think these kids aren’t capable of playing in reserves level in d1,d2,d3 then i dont know what to say.

 

[EBERT THE KING]

What happens hypoethically?

A man who is now 18 has finished his juniors and enters a senior club. He will be picked in 1st, 2nds or 3rds. If he is good he will go straight into the seconds or seniors, if he needs more time the thirds. Kids will develop a lot quicker playing with mature bodies than glorified juniors under 19s.

People can say “but kids will leave”

Look at West Preston this season, struggling for 2’s after 19’s last year had 2 sides? Where have the kids gone? They should have 40 missing out. Same with Boro, strong juniors and 19’s for decades and apparently short of 2’s. Kids leave any way, hence why we have a massive player shortage state wide.

Maybe watch some under 17’s if you think these kids aren’t capable of playing in reserves level in d1,d2,d3 then i dont know what to say.

Kids don't develop playing reserves footy.

 

[10571z]

Kids don't develop playing reserves footy.

It wouldn’t be reserves football as you know it.. that’s the point.

 

[Thunder1]

It’s great to have footy back again for season 2023. Looks like the weather isn’t going to be great tomorrow but let’s hope for a big crowd and game to start season 2023.

Ladder predictions
1. Heidelberg (back to back)
2. Bundoora
3. Montmorency
4. North Heidelberg
5. West Preston
6. Greensborough
7. Banyule
8. Hurstbridge
9. Macleod
10. Whittlesea

Top 3 for me, same as last year. I think 4-9 would all be hoping to play finals and will depend on form, injuries etc.
Whittlesea in for a tough 2023 and will finish last.

Grand finalists: Heidelberg and Bundoora
Premiers: Heidelberg
Relegated: Whittlesea

Macleod vs Greensborough. All eyes will be on DeWinton Park to see Hurley and Newnes debut for their respective clubs.
Macleod welcome back Billy and Darcy Barden who though getting on still are producing high level of footy.
For the Boro, they have added Newnes, Howard, Charlie Bowes, Smith to help offset the losses of Riddle and Bell.

Greensborough to start the season off with a 27 point win

 

[NorthernBastard]

What happens hypoethically?

A man who is now 18 has finished his juniors and enters a senior club. He will be picked in 1st, 2nds or 3rds. If he is good he will go straight into the seconds or seniors, if he needs more time the thirds. Kids will develop a lot quicker playing with mature bodies than glorified juniors under 19s.

People can say “but kids will leave”

Look at West Preston this season, struggling for 2’s after 19’s last year had 2 sides? Where have the kids gone? They should have 40 missing out. Same with Boro, strong juniors and 19’s for decades and apparently short of 2’s. Kids leave any way, hence why we have a massive player shortage state wide.

Maybe watch some under 17’s if you think these kids aren’t capable of playing in reserves level in d1,d2,d3 then i dont know what to say.

If there was no 19's last year then those 40 kids likely wouldn't have played at the club at all - sounds like WP didn't create an environment which made them want to continue there footy journey with them

 

[ONTHEPROWL]

If there was no 19's last year then those 40 kids likely wouldn't have played at the club at all - sounds like WP didn't create an environment which made them want to continue there footy journey with them

Most 19s don’t play footy because they want to play seniors, they play to play with their mates. If they are playing against 32 year old gorillas no way they play