NFNL Div 3 discussion 2023

[Thing]

The 4 div comp has a lot of logic to it. You play everyone twice. Shorter season to reduce fatigue and help hold players at lower level team due to mental fatigue. Relegation and promotion will still help balance the better and worse of each level.
The worst of div 2 this year would have struggled against the best of div 3 so it might also help close that gap.

 

[Thunder1]

VERY Random thought - would something like this work as the comp grows / support more even games in each division?

An 8 team comp / top 4 finals / 16 rounds of H&A / one up one down promotion / mid year bye if req

Based on that it would look like in 2024:

Div 1 (8 teams)
Heidelberg
Bund
Nth H
Mont
Greens
Mac
Bany
Elth

Div 2 8 (teams)
West P
Whitt
DC
ST Marys
South M
Wats
Thommo
Laurimar

Div 3 (8 teams)
NP
PH
Lower P
Epping
Mernda
Kinglake
Eltham C
West H

Div 4 (7 teams / 14 H&A rounds)
Kilmore
Stars
Res
Lalor
Parade
Ivanhoe

Salary caps could stay the same but spread over 16 and 14 H&A rounds?

Just a random way to start some Friday chatter.

Chump.

Champ or Chump Always good for a Friday chat

Firstly you have forgotten Hurstbridge

You only have 7 teams in division 4 so don’t think that is ideal, especially if one or two clubs are struggling. I think from a recruitment point of view it’s also easier to try and recruit for Division 3, instead of division 4

The 10 team comp is ideal as it’s a fair and equitable draw.

I know a top 6 has been discussed for Division 3 in 2024 with 11 teams

Thoughts on a top 8 in division 3, can still be run over 4 weeks like top 6, more teams play finals especially if draw is unequal
Rewards top 4 teams with double chance

 

[Champ or Chump]

Champ or Chump Always good for a Friday chat

Firstly you have forgotten Hurstbridge

You only have 7 teams in division 4 so don’t think that is ideal, especially if one or two clubs are struggling. I think from a recruitment point of view it’s also easier to try and recruit for Division 3, instead of division 4

The 10 team comp is ideal as it’s a fair and equitable draw.

I know a top 6 has been discussed for Division 3 in 2024 with 11 teams

Thoughts on a top 8 in division 3, can still be run over 4 weeks like top 6, more teams play finals especially if draw is unequal
Rewards top 4 teams with double chance

Firstly apologies to Hursty - rookie error by me. Have adjusted

Agree 7 teams not ideal - absolutely. But could those clubs that are struggling get more players IF they were less likely to get smashed by 150 points each week?

Ideal world 10 works - agree - but shorter seasons could help - especually with volunteers, staff and umpires?

Div 1 (8 teams)
Heidelberg
Bund
Nth H
Mont
Hurst
Greens
Mac
Elth

Div 2 8 (teams)
Banyule
West P
Whitt
DC
ST Marys
South M
Wats
Laurimar

Div 3 (8 teams)
Thommo
NP
PH
Lower P
Epping
Mernda
Kinglake
Eltham C

Div 4 (7 teams / 14 H&A rounds)
West H
Kilmore
Stars
Res
Lalor
Parade
Ivanhoe

Chump

 

[Thunder1]

Firstly apologies to Hursty - rookie error by me. Have adjusted

Agree 7 teams not ideal - absolutely. But could those clubs that are struggling get more players IF they were less likely to get smashed by 150 points each week?

Ideal world 10 works - agree - but shorter seasons could help - especually with volunteers, staff and umpires?

Div 1 (8 teams)
Heidelberg
Bund
Nth H
Mont
Hurst
Greens
Mac
Elth

Div 2 8 (teams)
Banyule
West P
Whitt
DC
ST Marys
South M
Wats
Laurimar

Div 3 (8 teams)
Thommo
NP
PH
Lower P
Epping
Mernda
Kinglake
Eltham C

Div 4 (7 teams / 14 H&A rounds)
West H
Kilmore
Stars
Res
Lalor
Parade
Ivanhoe

Chump

Champ or Chump all good mate
With 8 team divisions season is only 14 games, not sure salary cap could stay as it is as you would be down 2 home games (if it’s a 10 team competition) and will clubs be able to find the extra $$$ without those 2 home games.

If you reduce the salary cap do we run the risk of losing more players to other competitions that have an 18 game season and a bigger salary cap?

 

[Champ or Chump]

Champ or Chump all good mate
With 8 team divisions season is only 14 games, not sure salary cap could stay as it is as you would be down 2 home games (if it’s a 10 team competition) and will clubs be able to find the extra $$$ without those 2 home games.

If you reduce the salary cap do we run the risk of losing more players to other competitions that have an 18 game season and a bigger salary cap?

Very valid points Thunder and would have to be one of the key concerns with the proposed model.

I would be interested to understand (as would have no idea being from the ammos and we would get very little revenue on match days) what sort of % of yearly revenue is derived from home games v sponsorship? ie: if you lost 2 home games of average 'profitable' revenue, what would you need to make up in sponsorship to support no change in the cap?

Coming from a comp where we would be lucky to have 100 people watching, we have had to work hard on sponsors and events to raise revenue for things. Hence one of the appealing factors in joining the NFNL in having more local games (bigger crowds), food & beverage opportunities increased, etc.

Chump

 

[Grassroots Guru]

While it’s a worthy debate I personally don’t think a D4 is worth pursuing post covid.

Just as an example the SFNL grew to 4 divisions pre covid which did help struggling clubs.
However the last few years have been an outright mess and I could see similar situations happening with a 7 team comp in the northern.

In the Southern they had Hampton fall back in 2022 and fielded just a senior side. Then in 2023 South Yarra lasted about 6 rounds before they permanently fell back into a D4 reserves side (no seniors).
In the end it meant sides had too many byes and forfeits and it really compromised the H&A season.

With Lalor and Reservoir struggling I could see similar issues arising if the NFL went to 4 tiers of footy.

The SFNL are now reviewing the viability of D4 but they do have thirds football that clubs can fall back on which Cerberus and Sandown have done in the past.

 

[10571z]

I think 3 divisions is ideal. IMO a club will drop off in the next 3 seasons and we will be back to 10/10/10

 

[Thunder1]

While it’s a worthy debate I personally don’t think a D4 is worth pursuing post covid.

Just as an example the SFNL grew to 4 divisions pre covid which did help struggling clubs.
However the last few years have been an outright mess and I could see similar situations happening with a 7 team comp in the northern.

In the Southern they had Hampton fall back in 2022 and fielded just a senior side. Then in 2023 South Yarra lasted about 6 rounds before they permanently fell back into a D4 reserves side (no seniors).
In the end it meant sides had too many byes and forfeits and it really compromised the H&A season.

With Lalor and Reservoir struggling I could see similar issues arising if the NFL went to 4 tiers of footy.

The SFNL are now reviewing the viability of D4 but they do have thirds football that clubs can fall back on which Cerberus and Sandown have done in the past.

Grassroots Guru Outer East had the same issue I believe with there division 2 (it was division 3 as they call their division 1 premier, never understood this logic, just call it division 1 ) and only had 6 teams in the comp last year and with teams looking to leave Outer East it has become even messier

 

[bertybeetle]

While it looks enticing to go to 4 divisions I think it will destroy teams that are competitive division 3 teams right now. HW, stars, kilmore and the 2 new clubs don’t deserve to be in a division 4. There’s not enough of a quality gap between teams outside of Lalor and reservoir to justify another division. Not only that the cap for other division 4 comps are anywhere between 30-50k, Goodluck ever progressing.
I think an ideal 10/10/10 comp looks to be the way to go, just a matter of when

 

[10571z]

While it looks enticing to go to 4 divisions I think it will destroy teams that are competitive division 3 teams right now. HW, stars, kilmore and the 2 new clubs don’t deserve to be in a division 4. There’s not enough of a quality gap between teams outside of Lalor and reservoir to justify another division. Not only that the cap for other division 4 comps are anywhere between 30-50k, Goodluck ever progressing.
I think an ideal 10/10/10 comp looks to be the way to go, just a matter of when

Agree with that. Besides the bottom 2 the comp was very even. Fitzroy for example pushed Laurimar and old Eltham.

 

[EBERT THE KING]

Div 2 is the issue.

Bottom is miles away from being competitive with the top teams.

Has been for 3 or 4 years.

 

[nosecondprize]

Firstly apologies to Hursty - rookie error by me. Have adjusted

Agree 7 teams not ideal - absolutely. But could those clubs that are struggling get more players IF they were less likely to get smashed by 150 points each week?

Ideal world 10 works - agree - but shorter seasons could help - especually with volunteers, staff and umpires?

Div 1 (8 teams)
Heidelberg
Bund
Nth H
Mont
Hurst
Greens
Mac
Elth

Div 2 8 (teams)
Banyule
West P
Whitt
DC
ST Marys
South M
Wats
Laurimar

Div 3 (8 teams)
Thommo
NP
PH
Lower P
Epping
Mernda
Kinglake
Eltham C

Div 4 (7 teams / 14 H&A rounds)
West H
Kilmore
Stars
Res
Lalor
Parade
Ivanhoe

Chump

No way in the world would they reduce Div 1 to 8 teams, nor should they. Cant half or more then half the teams playing finals.

And 14 games for Div 4 wouldn't work. You would lose players left right and center who are missing out on playing footy for an extra 2 or 4 games. The standard would be horrendous.

 

[just ask!!!]

Ex Parade Coach Whitcher bobs up at East Burwood.

 

[NorthernBastard]

top 2 divisions should be 10 teams, div 3 should be whatever is leftover (unless it got to say 15/16+ and can expand to 4 divisions)

The best team will get out of div 3 most years, and in general if you have a top 5 or 6, everyone who is a chance to win the flag will get a crack at finals footy.

Fantastic inclusions with Parade and Ivanhoe - between Ivanhoe juniors and Parade students running around in NFNL footy, you'd have 2 very competitive senior football sides - I wonder if either club will be able to entice back their alumni

 

[clocks]

To be honest the league needs to apply some pressure on lalor. They are by far the least stable club in the competition. I’d be asking to see how many have signed by Feb then release the draw after that.

Can’t have a team that’s lost 5-8 players and struggling to field to teams bring down the comp.

They are the reason the fixture will be lopsided, anyone who gets them more than the rest is getting points for a bye.

 

[just ask!!!]

To be honest the league needs to apply some pressure on lalor. They are by far the least stable club in the competition. I’d be asking to see how many have signed by Feb then release the draw after that.

Can’t have a team that’s lost 5-8 players and struggling to field to teams bring down the comp.

They are the reason the fixture will be lopsided, anyone who gets them more than the rest is getting points for a bye.

You cant do the fixture in Feb, it needs to be done before Xmas

 

[10571z]

Ex Parade Coach Whitcher bobs up at East Burwood.

How’s the write up. “Coached seniors at montmorency” senior girls…

 

[barrelsomers]

No way in the world would they reduce Div 1 to 8 teams, nor should they. Cant half or more then half the teams playing finals.

And 14 games for Div 4 wouldn't work. You would lose players left right and center who are missing out on playing footy for an extra 2 or 4 games. The standard would be horrendous.

And it's unbelievably unfair to the 2 teams that would get bumped into the lower divisions. Would be a spit in the face to the flags they won to earn their spot (Looking more at Div1 and Div2)

 

[RULES EXPERT]

VERY Random thought - would something like this work as the comp grows / support more even games in each division?

An 8 team comp / top 4 finals / 16 rounds of H&A / one up one down promotion / mid year bye if req

Based on that it would look like in 2024:

Div 1 (8 teams)
Heidelberg
Bund
Nth H
Mont
Hurst
Greens
Mac
Elth

Div 2 8 (teams)
Banyule
West P
Whitt
DC
ST Marys
South M
Wats
Laurimar

Div 3 (8 teams)
Thommo
NP
PH
Lower P
Epping
Mernda
Kinglake
Eltham C

Div 4 (7 teams / 14 H&A rounds)
West H
Kilmore
Stars
Res
Lalor
Parade
Ivanhoe

Salary caps could stay the same but spread over 16 and 14 H&A rounds?

Just a random way to start some Friday chatter.

Chump.

8 teams playing each other twice equals only 14 rounds not 16 . To continue with 18 rounds would mean playing each other twice plus playing half of the teams three times . Leave it as is thank yoi

 

[10571z]

Good pick up by stars with Proctor coming over from Bundoora

 

[Champ or Chump]

It's official - both Ivanhoe and Parade given green light by AFL Vic today and starting in Div 3 (as they should/expected). Will be interesting to see how both go in 2024.

Chump

 

[10571z]

Another nice get for the stars. Bad loss for west Heidelberg.

Is Hywood playing there again? I noticed he wasn’t announced as a re-signing

 

[Champ or Chump]

Another nice get for the stars. Bad loss for west Heidelberg.

Is Hywood playing there again? I noticed he wasn’t announced as a re-signing

Could Jetta be next to the Stars? Hearing a 'massive' push from Stars for season 2024.

The upside is it will continue to make Div 3 a VERY competitive and more even competition, something the NFNL would be wrapt about.

Chump

 

[barrelsomers]

Could Jetta be next to the Stars? Hearing a 'massive' push from Stars for season 2024.

The upside is it will continue to make Div 3 a VERY competitive and more even competition, something the NFNL would be wrapt about.

Chump

Ivanhoe and OP should both be very competitive.

I would think there would be some close eyes watching Resa and Lalor next season to determine their viability in the league moving forward.

 

[10571z]

Ivanhoe and OP should both be very competitive.

I would think there would be some close eyes watching Resa and Lalor next season to determine their viability in the league moving forward.

I’m eagerly awaiting Lalor’s recruits.

Heard one from Bundooras seniors. How true who knows.

Surely they’d announce soon?