Mega Thread Nick Daicos - Can he be the GOAT? Part 2

[Spiral_Out]

The way he plays and his physical profile he may never take one.

I never seen Leo Messi win a contested header, and his the GOAT.

Last night only three mids took a CM, and on Thursday only two mid took a CM. The team that is premiership favourite had one contested mark from the midfield.

I don't think you realise how unimportant contested marks by midfielders are.

Yeah some people are frog brains, you look in their heads and it's just and constant 'ribbit, ribbit....'

The whole GOAT is super subjective and with most things, there are too many variables that is like comparing apples to oranges, and humans don't see defending against aggression as a positive trait, we are wired to see the aggression/attack as the winning trait, so people would never consider a defender of a sport to be a GOAT, and time is a factor, time with possession, time spent playing the sport (games), so we silly humans will always, always put an attacking midfielder in the forefront of our minds as a GOAT, Matthews, Ablett Jnr, Messi, doesn't matter, you put those factors together, our blind brains will give greater purpose and attribute meaning to attack rather than defence, so it's already eliminating 50% of the player base.

Such a stupid conversation.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Weekly reminder that Nick Daicos still hasn't taken a contested mark.

No idea how this is possible when I saw with my own eyes him take one in opening round and last night I swear I saw one lol

 

[RCAB]

Judd over Ablett for mine. Judd had to reinvent himself after the OP and completely changed how he played and won a second Brownlow

If you're judging players on Brownlows you have no idea what you're talking about

 

[RCAB]

If I recall, some neutrals tried to paint Ablett jr as a seagull for getting a lot of 1-2 handball receives too.

That used to happen a lot, until he kept doing it year after year, for 10+ years and then the dissent gradually went silent... Oh and also his freakish skills and goals he conjured.

 

[RCAB]

lol imagine not thinking Carey or Ablett aren't part of the GOAT conversation, I mean, I'm not old, I was a kid watching them, but they were unstoppable and freakish. 2 of the greatest forwards to have ever played, and yes I have them ahead of Lockett and Dunstall, those guys were 1 dimensional lead up forwards with big frames and a top tier set shot.

Carey and Ablett were on another level, I have Carey ahead of Ablett, we'll never see the like again.

Now modern era, Ablett Jnr takes the cake.

Prior era's, it was easier to dominate because it wasn't a professional sport, the players weren't full time, they were tradies that played footy on the weekend, so it was easier for Matthews to dominate and get such stupid numbers.

Zero chance Matthews gets those numbers these days, you look at his highlights, he's just an average footballer and his opposition are laughable amateurs. You stick a modern defender on him, he would barely touch it.

Carey is not ahead of Lockett and Dunstall. I've seen all them play live, it's not even that close.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

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Carey is not ahead of Lockett and Dunstall. I've seen all them play live, it's not that even close.

Not to mention blowing up his entire team with his bullshit off field antics. Surely that’s weighed into the package.

 

[RCAB]

Yeah some people are frog brains, you look in their heads and it's just and constant 'ribbit, ribbit....'

The whole GOAT is super subjective and with most things, there are too many variables that is like comparing apples to oranges, and humans don't see defending against aggression as a positive trait, we are wired to see the aggression/attack as the winning trait, so people would never consider a defender of a sport to be a GOAT, and time is a factor, time with possession, time spent playing the sport (games), so we silly humans will always, always put an attacking midfielder in the forefront of our minds as a GOAT, Matthews, Ablett Jnr, Messi, doesn't matter, you put those factors together, our blind brains will give greater purpose and attribute meaning to attack rather than defence, so it's already eliminating 50% of the player base.

Such a stupid conversation.

Of course it's very subjective and it's hard to compare players from different eras, particularly when gamestyle, skills, player congestion, positional play, training methods and professionalism have all changed.

The best approach is to compare great players from their peers and era, and then go from there.

 

[BigVic]

Good player and in year 4 of his career

 

[sr36]

Of course it's very subjective and it's hard to compare players from different eras, particularly when gamestyle, skills, player congestion, positional play, training methods and professionalism have all changed.

The best approach is to compare great players from their peers and era, and then go from there.

Yep. Who was the most dominant in their era?

 

[Spiral_Out]

Carey is not ahead of Lockett and Dunstall. I've seen all them play live, it's not even that close.

So have I, you're right, it's not close, Carey is light years ahead of them.

Who the hell thinks a FF that can only lead up is ahead of Carey that could play anywhere, do anything and dominate anyone.

You are exactly what I described earlier, number of goals blinds you, Carey was a Half Forward that averaged almost 3 goals a game, frog brian.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

Why would I be emotionally connected to a football club? I have absolutely no control over what happens or what eventuates in a period between when a game starts or finishes. If you’re emotionally invested in a football club then I dare say your priorities are skewed and your life lacks some serious meaning.

It’s like the Carlton nuffies abusing the players after round one. You lot would eat your own at the drop of a hat.

Maybe you should read Nick Hornsby's Fever Pitch, or watch the movie with Colin Firth.

 

[RUNVS]

3 Votes - N Daicos

Probably, but Liberatore and Darcy had better games.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Probably, but Liberatore and Darcy had better games.

Schultz too

Votes not clear cut imo

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[sr36]

Probably, but Liberatore and Darcy had better games.

I thought so too - actually thought Lobb was better too, but also think that Nick is heading into Carey territory where expectations are so high that excellent games for everyone else are viewed as solid games.

 

[RUNVS]

Schultz too

Votes not clear cut imo

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We can rule out Darcy and Schultz though as Key Forward and especially medium/small forwards do not get Brownlow votes.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

We can rule out Darcy and Schultz though as Key Forward and especially medium/small forwards do not get Brownlow votes.

Darcy might start getting some soon, what a beast

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[RCAB]

Not to mention blowing up his entire team with his bullshit off field antics. Surely that’s weighed into the package.

I suppose you have to take that into account, although I generally don't.

Maradona was way worse, and I always thought he was GOAT or close to it.

 

[RCAB]

Yep. Who was the most dominant in their era?

Which era?

 

[sr36]

Which era?

I mean to me that's the criteria for GOAT. How dominant you are against your peers.

 

[RUNVS]

I mean to me that's the criteria for GOAT. How dominant you are against your peers.

Agreed. Impossible to compare Leigh Matthews to Gary Ablett Jnr for instance as they played in completely different eras.

It is why I rate Buddy so highly though (well other than being a Swans fan). You can throw a blanket over 5 or 6 midfielders of the 21st century in terms of ability and output, and if you ended up with any of them at your club you would be happy, but Buddy is clearly the best key forward of the 21st century it isn't even a discussion.

So for me I actually prefer comparing positions of an era, and then working out who was the best player for their position. Once you have that list then you can begin debating who was the best player of their era.

 

[RUNVS]

So to me the best of the 21st century

Key Forward - Franklin
Ruckman - Gawn, Cox
Key Defender - Scarlett, Rance
Midfielder - Ablett Jnr, Judd, Martin
Small Forward - Betts, Milne
Small Defender - N.Smith
Medium Defender - Enright, Stewart
Half Back - McLoud, Murphy

I think before Daicos can be in any kind of best of the era discussions he needs to break into the best of the midfielders group, and only then we can start comparing him to players of other positions too.

 

[beerbandit]

So to me the best of the 21st century

Key Forward - Franklin
Ruckman - Gawn, Cox
Key Defender - Scarlett, Rance
Midfielder - Ablett Jnr, Judd, Martin
Small Forward - Betts, Milne
Small Defender - N.Smith
Medium Defender - Enright, Stewart
Half Back - McLoud, Murphy

I think before Daicos can be in any kind of best of the era discussions he needs to break into the best of the midfielders group, and only then we can start comparing him to players of other positions too.

He is the best player in the competition now, and at age 22 his ceiling is very high.

 

[Lockyer24]

So to me the best of the 21st century

Key Forward - Franklin
Ruckman - Gawn, Cox
Key Defender - Scarlett, Rance
Midfielder - Ablett Jnr, Judd, Martin
Small Forward - Betts, Milne
Small Defender - N.Smith
Medium Defender - Enright, Stewart
Half Back - McLoud, Murphy

I think before Daicos can be in any kind of best of the era discussions he needs to break into the best of the midfielders group, and only then we can start comparing him to players of other positions too.

He is Flemington straight ahead of GAJ at the same age.

 

[RUNVS]

He is Flemington straight ahead of GAJ at the same age.

Played very different roles at that age. Gary Ablett Jnr averaged 17 disposals and 1.7 goals per game at the same age, indicating he was playing much more as a small/medium forward.

 

[Fadge]

Carey is not ahead of Lockett and Dunstall. I've seen all them play live, it's not even that close.

Hard for us to argue with that...