Opinion Non-Crows AFL 5: Save Ken

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
WaynesWorld19 said:
HTF has the GWS model been successful ......still flagless after getting obscene draft concessions upon entry to the AFL

Now GWS are back in rebuild mode ...

View attachment 1502697
Click to expand...

I maintain that GWS only loses players they want to lose and keep all the important ones with the exception of Jeremy Cameron (which is why they matched and demanded 3 first round picks)

Look at the players that have left (some of them)

Jeremy Cameron - elite, traded for 3 first rounders, probably unders he's that good
Dylan Shiel - very average these days, traded for 2 first rounders (overs)
Adam Treloar - has dropped off, traded for 2 first rounders (overs)
Taylor Adams - overrated and was traded directly for Shaw who was decent for them
Devon Smith - overrated, dropped off, traded for overs
Zac Williams - overrated, got overs from the FA compensation
Rory Lobb - overrated, got huge overs
Tom Scully - salary cap dump
Jon Patton - salary cap dump and did nothing
Dom Tyson - bog average, done nothing
Will Hoskin-Elliott - average player, traded for a good second rounder (overs)
Adam Tomlinson - average, left as a free agenct
Nathan Wilson - mediocre, non issue
Curtly Hampton - atrocious and we paid a second rounder (way overs)
Andrew Phillips - meh
Lachie Plowman - terrible
Jon O'Rourke - atroicous
Aidan Corr - very average and they got a good FA pick for him
Cam McCarthy - terrible player
Jeremy Finlayson - average
Matt Kennedy - average and they got a decent pick
Will Setterfield - below average and they got a good pick
Jackson Hately - mediocre
Jye Caldwell - we'll see but they got reasonable picks back
Caleb Marchbank - meh, done nothing
Paul Ahern - fail pick
Tom Boyd - played a good game and was traded for massive overs
James Stewart - average

There's more players of course.

But basically as far as I can tell almost every player of consequence that's left has performed below expectations AND GWS ended up getting overs in the trade. Some of the ex first rounders they've let go have done jack shit.

They players they've kept?

Toby Greene (elite gun), Lachie Whitfield (elite gun), Sam Taylor (elite gun), Josh Kelly (very good), Callan Ward (very good), Harry Himmelberg (very good), Tom Green (looking very good), Stephen Coniglio (good), Perryman (good), Ash (good)

Even with Taranto and Hopper gone they still have a VERY good side. Hopper's loss will sting a bit, I don't think Taranto will. They may actually be better off turning those draft picks into players that will fill holes in their side, like drafting an elite key forward and another defender. But in any case IMO there's a reason they are moving on Taranto and Hopper rather than Greene and Whitfield.

I mean this would be something along the lines of their starting best 22 and it's still easily finals quality AND with good youth coming through

B Cumming - Keefe - Aleer
HB Whitfield - Taylor - Haynes
C Perryman - Green - Ash
HF Greene - Himmelberg - Callaghan
F Daniels - Hogan - Riccardi
R Briggs - Kelly - Coniglio

I Ward - Idun - Lloyd - Pick 3

On top of this best 22 (which IMO is a finals worthy side) they still have first round picks such as Stone and Angwin in reserves PLUS whatever they get for Taranto, Hopper, Bruhn and Hill
 

Log in to remove this ad.

DJ75 said:
I'm 95% sure that Ross Lyon is gaslighting the AFL community.

I suspect he is very comfortable in his commentary roles and has no interest in coaching again. BUT, he needs to stay relevant and loves the attention, so every job that comes up, he leaks his own name as being interested. He waits a little while for the media to pick it up and run with it, then he announces that he isn't interested or has withdrawn his interest.
Funnily enough there was never interest in the first place.
Click to expand...
His reasoning was he didn't like the vibe of Essendon.

It's getting to the stage where he has been out of coaching too long since he was last coaching... as the game has changed quite a bit.... more attacking/play on football than his defensive mindset.
 
Kane McGoodwin said:
His reasoning was he didn't like the vibe of Essendon.

It's getting to the stage where he has been out of coaching too long since he was last coaching... as the game has changed quite a bit.... more attacking/play on football than his defensive mindset.
Click to expand...
Carlton is yet only another epic H&A tragedy in 2023 from needing a new coach.

If Voss doesnt make finals next year, they will come for him.

I think there will be a few vacancies next year tbh.
 
Scorpus said:
I maintain that GWS only loses players they want to lose and keep all the important ones with the exception of Jeremy Cameron (which is why they matched and demanded 3 first round picks)

Look at the players that have left (some of them)

Jeremy Cameron - elite, traded for 3 first rounders, probably unders he's that good
Dylan Shiel - very average these days, traded for 2 first rounders (overs)
Adam Treloar - has dropped off, traded for 2 first rounders (overs)
Taylor Adams - overrated and was traded directly for Shaw who was decent for them
Devon Smith - overrated, dropped off, traded for overs
Zac Williams - overrated, got overs from the FA compensation
Rory Lobb - overrated, got huge overs
Tom Scully - salary cap dump
Jon Patton - salary cap dump and did nothing
Dom Tyson - bog average, done nothing
Will Hoskin-Elliott - average player, traded for a good second rounder (overs)
Adam Tomlinson - average, left as a free agenct
Nathan Wilson - mediocre, non issue
Curtly Hampton - atrocious and we paid a second rounder (way overs)
Andrew Phillips - meh
Lachie Plowman - terrible
Jon O'Rourke - atroicous
Aidan Corr - very average and they got a good FA pick for him
Cam McCarthy - terrible player
Jeremy Finlayson - average
Matt Kennedy - average and they got a decent pick
Will Setterfield - below average and they got a good pick
Jackson Hately - mediocre
Jye Caldwell - we'll see but they got reasonable picks back
Caleb Marchbank - meh, done nothing
Paul Ahern - fail pick
Tom Boyd - played a good game and was traded for massive overs
James Stewart - average

There's more players of course.

But basically as far as I can tell almost every player of consequence that's left has performed below expectations AND GWS ended up getting overs in the trade. Some of the ex first rounders they've let go have done jack s**t.

They players they've kept?

Toby Greene (elite gun), Lachie Whitfield (elite gun), Sam Taylor (elite gun), Josh Kelly (very good), Callan Ward (very good), Harry Himmelberg (very good), Tom Green (looking very good), Stephen Coniglio (good), Perryman (good), Ash (good)

Even with Taranto and Hopper gone they still have a VERY good side. Hopper's loss will sting a bit, I don't think Taranto will. They may actually be better off turning those draft picks into players that will fill holes in their side, like drafting an elite key forward and another defender. But in any case IMO there's a reason they are moving on Taranto and Hopper rather than Greene and Whitfield.

I mean this would be something along the lines of their starting best 22 and it's still easily finals quality AND with good youth coming through

B Cumming - Keefe - Aleer
HB Whitfield - Taylor - Haynes
C Perryman - Green - Ash
HF Greene - Himmelberg - Callaghan
F Daniels - Hogan - Riccardi
R Briggs - Kelly - Coniglio

I Ward - Idun - Lloyd - Pick 3

On top of this best 22 (which IMO is a finals worthy side) they still have first round picks such as Stone and Angwin in reserves PLUS whatever they get for Taranto, Hopper, Bruhn and Hill
Click to expand...
You’re drawing a long bow at the top of the list I reckon.

Adams and Smith won BnFs at their new clubs. Sheil was only 25 and AA the year before left. The trade went to the wire. Treloar racked it up for Collingwood.

They’ve had a plethora of single digit picks and used a lot of them well. Doesn’t mean they were happy to let them go, as reflected in what they demanded and got in trade.
 
Kane McGoodwin said:
His reasoning was he didn't like the vibe of Essendon.

It's getting to the stage where he has been out of coaching too long since he was last coaching... as the game has changed quite a bit.... more attacking/play on football than his defensive mindset.
Click to expand...

Big clubs like Essendon, Collingwood traditionally do not wait around with coaches without sign of success. If Nicks was at any of them, he would be gone by now. I wouldn't be too comfortable with going to a club as a coach from a cushy media gig if they had a questionable approach to how they ran things.
 
maxlilly said:
There is no way Richmond have the picks or players wanting to go to GWS that will get Taranto and a contracted Hopper
The commentary on Rankine earlier looks pretty embarrassing but no kick back with Richmond
Click to expand...
Richmond fans tend to think GWS will be going haha at the prospect of getting guys like Riley Collier-Dawkins in return.
 
Samcro24 said:
You’re drawing a long bow at the top of the list I reckon.

Adams and Smith won BnFs at their new clubs. Sheil was only 25 and AA the year before left. The trade went to the wire. Treloar racked it up for Collingwood.

They’ve had a plethora of single digit picks and used a lot of them well. Doesn’t mean they were happy to let them go, as reflected in what they demanded and got in trade.
Click to expand...
I'm sure GWS would love to keep every player they draft but realistically they can't. The salary cap doesn't allow it. So I think for some players they make a big deal about them leaving to extract maximum value.

For example losing Adams, Treloar and Shiel didn't hurt their on field performance whatsoever. Individually okay to decent players with accolades that mean high draft currency, but not essential to their team and I think that's been shown over the years. If they are going to lose a player, that's the sort of player they want to lose while extracting peak value.

Meanwhile if they lose a player like Toby Greene... that would be devastating for them. He is incredibly difficult to replace. But normal midfielders? Dime a dozen up there.

I think their list management is very good for the hand they've got. They're realistic about what can be done, take a lot of bites at the draft to restock and keep the essentials. These talks of poor cap management are laughable, they'd have to pay guys huge unders to stay with how much talent they've got. If only their coaching and fitness was up to scratch
 
kirky said:
So both Taranto and Hopper on 7 year contracts - just ridiculous. Gives the club minimal flexibility.

The problem at the moment is the players have the upper hand.

Maximum 4 years I’d say.
Click to expand...

The opposite I reckon, gives clubs the most salary cap flexibility
 
What is happening ( and the same with Buddy) is that clubs are assessing the terms after the 5th year and making trade choices based on the cap etc

I'm not a fan of it from the clubs view in that players can get content with the deal and coast
 
Scorpus said:
I maintain that GWS only loses players they want to lose and keep all the important ones with the exception of Jeremy Cameron (which is why they matched and demanded 3 first round picks)

Look at the players that have left (some of them)

Jeremy Cameron - elite, traded for 3 first rounders, probably unders he's that good
Dylan Shiel - very average these days, traded for 2 first rounders (overs)
Adam Treloar - has dropped off, traded for 2 first rounders (overs)
Taylor Adams - overrated and was traded directly for Shaw who was decent for them
Devon Smith - overrated, dropped off, traded for overs
Zac Williams - overrated, got overs from the FA compensation
Rory Lobb - overrated, got huge overs
Tom Scully - salary cap dump
Jon Patton - salary cap dump and did nothing
Dom Tyson - bog average, done nothing
Will Hoskin-Elliott - average player, traded for a good second rounder (overs)
Adam Tomlinson - average, left as a free agenct
Nathan Wilson - mediocre, non issue
Curtly Hampton - atrocious and we paid a second rounder (way overs)
Andrew Phillips - meh
Lachie Plowman - terrible
Jon O'Rourke - atroicous
Aidan Corr - very average and they got a good FA pick for him
Cam McCarthy - terrible player
Jeremy Finlayson - average
Matt Kennedy - average and they got a decent pick
Will Setterfield - below average and they got a good pick
Jackson Hately - mediocre
Jye Caldwell - we'll see but they got reasonable picks back
Caleb Marchbank - meh, done nothing
Paul Ahern - fail pick
Tom Boyd - played a good game and was traded for massive overs
James Stewart - average

There's more players of course.

But basically as far as I can tell almost every player of consequence that's left has performed below expectations AND GWS ended up getting overs in the trade. Some of the ex first rounders they've let go have done jack s**t.

They players they've kept?

Toby Greene (elite gun), Lachie Whitfield (elite gun), Sam Taylor (elite gun), Josh Kelly (very good), Callan Ward (very good), Harry Himmelberg (very good), Tom Green (looking very good), Stephen Coniglio (good), Perryman (good), Ash (good)

Even with Taranto and Hopper gone they still have a VERY good side. Hopper's loss will sting a bit, I don't think Taranto will. They may actually be better off turning those draft picks into players that will fill holes in their side, like drafting an elite key forward and another defender. But in any case IMO there's a reason they are moving on Taranto and Hopper rather than Greene and Whitfield.

I mean this would be something along the lines of their starting best 22 and it's still easily finals quality AND with good youth coming through

B Cumming - Keefe - Aleer
HB Whitfield - Taylor - Haynes
C Perryman - Green - Ash
HF Greene - Himmelberg - Callaghan
F Daniels - Hogan - Riccardi
R Briggs - Kelly - Coniglio

I Ward - Idun - Lloyd - Pick 3

On top of this best 22 (which IMO is a finals worthy side) they still have first round picks such as Stone and Angwin in reserves PLUS whatever they get for Taranto, Hopper, Bruhn and Hill
Click to expand...

They just finished near bottom, and sacked their coach
If they were letting the right ones go, and keeping the right ones, it’s hard to see what it would look like if they got it wrong.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

GreyCrow said:
What is happening ( and the same with Buddy) is that clubs are assessing the terms after the 5th year and making trade choices based on the cap etc

I'm not a fan of it from the clubs view in that players can get content with the deal and coast
Click to expand...
All it would take is for the AFL to state that Club contracts can not be longer than 4 years. It protects the Club, but also gives the players a way out too.

Too many Clubs are paying players in their 5th year and beyond, that are simply not worth it.

Its a restraint of trade, but only if challenged in courts, much like the draft.
 
kirky said:
So both Taranto and Hopper on 7 year contracts - just ridiculous. Gives the club minimal flexibility.

The problem at the moment is the players have the upper hand.

Maximum 4 years I’d say.
Click to expand...
I agree, in principle .....however RICH have, with Taranto and Hopper, avoided the pain of a Free Agency negotiation .....with the total TPP likely to explode under the new media rights agreement ....it could be a good call, as is the case with Rankine

IIRC the new rights are 30% higher than the pre-pandemic annual rights .....that should see a min 25-30% increase in player wages (TPP)
 
Scorpus said:
I'm sure GWS would love to keep every player they draft but realistically they can't. The salary cap doesn't allow it. So I think for some players they make a big deal about them leaving to extract maximum value.

For example losing Adams, Treloar and Shiel didn't hurt their on field performance whatsoever. Individually okay to decent players with accolades that mean high draft currency, but not essential to their team and I think that's been shown over the years. If they are going to lose a player, that's the sort of player they want to lose while extracting peak value.

Meanwhile if they lose a player like Toby Greene... that would be devastating for them. He is incredibly difficult to replace. But normal midfielders? Dime a dozen up there.

I think their list management is very good for the hand they've got. They're realistic about what can be done, take a lot of bites at the draft to restock and keep the essentials. These talks of poor cap management are laughable, they'd have to pay guys huge unders to stay with how much talent they've got. If only their coaching and fitness was up to scratch
Click to expand...
Shiel and Treloar were big losses. Those two provided a lot of their run and carry.

Their side is almost bereft of line breakers these days.
 
Scorpus said:
I'm sure GWS would love to keep every player they draft but realistically they can't. The salary cap doesn't allow it. So I think for some players they make a big deal about them leaving to extract maximum value.

For example losing Adams, Treloar and Shiel didn't hurt their on field performance whatsoever. Individually okay to decent players with accolades that mean high draft currency, but not essential to their team and I think that's been shown over the years. If they are going to lose a player, that's the sort of player they want to lose while extracting peak value.

Meanwhile if they lose a player like Toby Greene... that would be devastating for them. He is incredibly difficult to replace. But normal midfielders? Dime a dozen up there.

I think their list management is very good for the hand they've got. They're realistic about what can be done, take a lot of bites at the draft to restock and keep the essentials. These talks of poor cap management are laughable, they'd have to pay guys huge unders to stay with how much talent they've got. If only their coaching and fitness was up to scratch
Click to expand...

Apart from the no premierships bit it sounds like a solid business plan.

Anyone know what their hit rate is with first rounders?
 
How are Richmond realistically going to pay for Taranto and Hopper in draft and trade capital? If they get both with 12 19 and next year's first then there's absolutely no way we should be parting with pick 5 for Rankine
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Similar threads

screech
Opinion Non-Crows AFL 11
85 86 87 88 89
Replies
2K
Views
79K
GreyCrow
GreyCrow
Samcro24
  • Locked
  • Poll
Opinion Non-Crows AFL 10
410 411 412 413 414
Replies
10K
Views
311K
Jarman3
J
George Kramer
Game Day Rd 16 Crows v Giants - Name the Excuse - Spoiler - Taylor saves Nicks, will he get another game?
42 43 44 45 46
Replies
1K
Views
22K
George Kramer
George Kramer
Mr_Moogle
  • Locked
  • Poll
Opinion Non-Crows AFL 9
399 400 401 402 403
Replies
10K
Views
380K
Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
JPetro83
5 things you want to see from the Crows/Footy this coming off-season?
2
Replies
44
Views
2K
Cromulant
C
Scorpus
  • Locked
Opinion Non-Crows AFL 7
399 400 401 402 403
Replies
10K
Views
348K
ams4crows
ams4crows
footy4ever
  • Locked
Opinion Non-Crows AFL 8 - Daddy Donuts Delivers Dream Drubbing
505 506 507 508 509
Replies
13K
Views
262K
Scorpus
Scorpus

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top