Opinion Non-Crows AFL 9

[Mostyn]

Yep, it seems those trying to excuse Nicks are forgetting the words of our football director when he said we didn’t expect to be that bad as we still had quality experienced players but they couldn’t carry the team.

It was a blessing as we got Thilthorpe, cut deeper and added more elite talent over coming years.

Lol - what? You were expecting a press release from the club?

What relevance does public puff statements have, in relation to what the club actually did?

7 first choice players were exited by the club.

Maybe they thought they'd be 15th. But they sure as hell didn't think they'd be 9th.

 

[George Kramer]

No. I'm pointing out the 1/3 of our 22 that we got rid of.

OF COURSE there were players that stayed. There were players that stayed at North Melbourne - it doesn't mean they didn't know they were doing a massive rebuild.

"Only a third of the 22 left" - C'mon. They knew where we were at, otherwise they would have kept more of them.

Look who left. Jenkins and Jacobs were at the end of their careers. Betts should have been too. Betts and Jenkins were cleaned out also due to the camp fallout. Keith and Greenwood they used for collateral but ****ed that up.

Senior players end their careers every year. We just had 3 go at the same time. That’s not a rebuild, it’s poor planning.

Who are the 7 who left?

Roos comments were not puff, it was his direct explanation of what they expected to occur. Sure we might have expected to miss the 8 given we did the previous year anyway, but there is no way they expected 0-13 and to finish bottom.

We ended up doing a full rebuild after we finished bottom, we didn’t finishing bottom because of the rebuild. You’ve got it arse up.

 

[Mostyn]

Jenkins, Keath, Betts, Jacobs, Douglas, Greenwood and Otten were all exited at the same time.

From memory, all of them said late in the season they wanted to stay, and six of the seven were playing for other clubs the following year.

We knew there was no way to rebuild if we kept these guys at the club, so all were moved on. Had we EVER moved on seven senior players at the same time?

Look, maybe we thought it wasn't going to be a fall to the wooden spoon. But we already knew it was a few steps back so we could start building again.

 

[1970crow]

This explains a lot.

the news service is known neutral, it's the shows that follow like Paul Murray that are right biased.

 

[ABAB]

Look who left. Jenkins and Jacobs were at the end of their careers. Betts should have been too. Betts and Jenkins were cleaned out also due to the camp fallout. Keith and Greenwood they used for collateral but ****ed that up.

Senior players end their careers every year. We just had 3 go at the same time. That’s not a rebuild, it’s poor planning.

Who are the 7 who left?

Roos comments were not puff, it was his direct explanation of what they expected to occur. Sure we might have expected to miss the 8 given we did the previous year anyway, but there is no way they expected 0-13 and to finish bottom.

We ended up doing a full rebuild after we finished bottom, we didn’t finishing bottom because of the rebuild. You’ve got it arse up.

It went from a rebuild (one of our biggest list turnover end of 2019) to an aggressive rebuild end of 2020 when we cut more senior players and was clearly planned as mentioned by Riccuito and it has worked so full credit to Nicks who can clearly coach. Not only did he see us though a rebuild but it was an aggressive rebuild.

“Matty Nicks knew what he was in for when he was coming. We were very clear that we wanted to do a rebuild, and an aggressive rebuild at that, we knew we had to move on a few of our older players and try some of our younger players that haven’t been exposed to AFL football in the last two years,” Ricciuto said.

Mark Ricciuto will ‘go if he needs to’ but backs ‘aggressive rebuild’ as Adelaide’s only option

Ricciuto will ‘go if he needs to’ but backs ‘aggressive rebuild’ as Adelaide’s only option

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[1970crow]

An argument can be made though, in fairness to Moysten, that the rebuild did start at the end of 2019.

We did trade away 5 first choice players at the end of 2019 (Betts, Jacobs, Jenkins, Keath, Greenwood).

Betts and JJ were forced out due to the camp. The other 3 all had contracts in front of them. Sauce was cooked. Keath was KPD depth and Hugh behind Gibbs, Crouch x 2, Laird and Sloane as a mid. There's no way they believed that losing those players was going to lessen our performance in any material way.

 

[George Kramer]

Jenkins, Keath, Betts, Jacobs, Douglas, Greenwood and Otten were all exited at the same time.

From memory, all of them said late in the season they wanted to stay, and six of the seven were playing for other clubs the following year.

We knew there was no way to rebuild if we kept these guys at the club, so all were moved on. Had we EVER moved on seven senior players at the same time?

Look, maybe we thought it wasn't going to be a fall to the wooden spoon. But we already knew it was a few steps back so we could start building again.

Jenkins and Jacobs played how many games? They were done and we made the right call, even though we did offer Jacobs one year and he went for 2. Betts and Jenkins were gone for the camp. Douglas and Otten? Finished. Keith and Greenwood we thought we’d get good collateral.

If we kept these senior players it would have been madness and it was poor list management they all went at the same time.

Not denying we were rebuilding but we didn’t expect it our results to be that bad, Roo said it. We still had enough decent players so there’s no way should have. Or do you think 0-13 and finishing bottom was due to the players we lost and not coaching?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Jenkins, Keath, Betts, Jacobs, Douglas, Greenwood and Otten were all exited at the same time.

From memory, all of them said late in the season they wanted to stay, and six of the seven were playing for other clubs the following year.

We knew there was no way to rebuild if we kept these guys at the club, so all were moved on. Had we EVER moved on seven senior players at the same time?

Look, maybe we thought it wasn't going to be a fall to the wooden spoon. But we already knew it was a few steps back so we could start building again.

Jenkins played 11 games in 2019
Douglas played 9
Jacobs 5
Otten 3

These players weren't at the core of our 2019 performances (we went 10-12 with 4 losses by under 2 goals)

It's why we didn't feel we had to fully rebuild.

Rejuvenation was the word we used from memory

Clear out the ageing deadwood who weren't impacting anyway, refresh the list without performances being impacted in any significant way.

Greenwood and Keath made way I'm sure for two reasons, one bad and one good:
1) We vastly overrated the remaining seniors' ability to impact games
2) We didn't want to repeat the same list management blunders that saw us paying top dollar to ageing, fading players (Lynch, Jenkins, Betts, Jacobs, Sloane, Betts) which meant we were not able to retain young up and comers (Lever, Cameron)

 

[BucketsNj]

I think an argument can be made both ways in truth.

I don't think anyone can argue that as of the 13 game losing streak we were in full rebuild, nor can anyone argue that during the 2019 season we weren't pushing to win the flag. The murky area is from round 22 2019 - round 1 2020.

Personally I think that the culture was stuffed and Betts, Jacobs and Jenkins wanted the hell out. Greenwood and Keath are, as you said, much harder to nail down.

Betts Jenkins and Jacobs were all playing in the 2s. They would have stayed if they’d been considered first 22.

 

[Faaarrk]

It went from a rebuild (one of our biggest list turnover end of 2019) to an aggressive rebuild end of 2020 when we cut more senior players and was clearly planned as mentioned by Riccuito and it has worked so full credit to Nicks who can clearly coach. Not only did he see us though a rebuild but it was an aggressive rebuild.

“Matty Nicks knew what he was in for when he was coming. We were very clear that we wanted to do a rebuild, and an aggressive rebuild at that, we knew we had to move on a few of our older players and try some of our younger players that haven’t been exposed to AFL football in the last two years,” Ricciuto said.

Mark Ricciuto will ‘go if he needs to’ but backs ‘aggressive rebuild’ as Adelaide’s only option

Ricciuto will ‘go if he needs to’ but backs ‘aggressive rebuild’ as Adelaide’s only option

www.foxsports.com.au

It went from a B+ rebuild to an A- the following year…

 

[ABAB]

It went from a B+ rebuild to an A- the following year…

And solid B+ rebuild to an A- rebuild are the same

 

[George Kramer]

Jenkins played 11 games in 2019
Douglas played 9
Jacobs 5
Otten 3

These players weren't at the core of our 2019 performances (we went 10-12 with 4 losses by under 2 goals)

It's why we didn't feel we had to fully rebuild.

Rejuvenation was the word we used from memory

Clear out the ageing deadwood who weren't impacting anyway, refresh the list without performances being impacted in any significant way.

Greenwood and Keath made way I'm sure for two reasons, one bad and one good:
1) We vastly overrated the remaining seniors' ability to impact games
2) We didn't want to repeat the same list management blunders that saw us paying top dollar to ageing, fading players (Lynch, Jenkins, Betts, Jacobs, Sloane, Betts) which meant we were not able to retain young up and comers (Lever, Cameron)

Exactly, case closed.

How he can argue otherwise when Roo said we expected to be better but the senior players did not pick up the slack.

When we finished bottom we went full rebuild as we had no choice and it would have been crazy to miss the opportunity, smartest thing the club done.

0-13, our team was better than that. That’s a deplorable result.

 

[ABAB]

Exactly, case closed.

How he can argue otherwise when Roo said we expected to be better but the senior players did not pick up the slack.

When we finished bottom we went full rebuild as we had no choice and it would have been crazy to miss the opportunity, smartest thing the club done.

0-13, our team was better than that. That’s a deplorable result.

“Matty Nicks knew what he was in for when he was coming. We were very clear that we wanted to do a rebuild, and an aggressive rebuild at that, we knew we had to move on a few of our older players and try some of our younger players that haven’t been exposed to AFL football in the last two years,” Ricciuto said.

 

[kirky]

context is king, private joke, AFC979810 started it. BTW, Fox News is actually an unbiased news source, similarly is the ABC. It's just what happens after the news when things go sideways.

“Fox News is actually an unbiased news source”

Needed a laugh today and I just got it.

 

[Mostyn]

Jenkins and Jacobs played how many games? They were done and we made the right call, even though we did offer Jacobs one year and he went for 2. Betts and Jenkins were gone for the camp. Douglas and Otten? Finished. Keith and Greenwood we thought we’d get good collateral.

If we kept these senior players it would have been madness and it was poor list management they all went at the same time.

Not denying we were rebuilding but we didn’t expect it our results to be that bad, Roo said it. We still had enough decent players so there’s no way should have. Or do you think 0-13 and finishing bottom was due to the players we lost and not coaching?

I think we made the right call getting rid of all of those guys - I think I said similar at the time. I thought we were cooked and needed the type of serious rebuild we hadn't ever tried previously.

I don't think they thought they'd be THAT bad, no. I reckon they thought they were certain to be bottom third of the ladder, but not as terrible as we were, with the coach needing to move drink bottles around because players were constantly in the wrong spot.

I do think they thought it was a genuine rebuild, though. But they probably thought home ground advantage etc would get us a few games, and things would improve quickly. But it wasn't that kind of year ...

 

[Mostyn]

0-13, our team was better than that. That’s a deplorable result.

Of course it was - but this was a new coach stuck in lockdown, trying to implement systems when he can barely get training to occur.

Look, I think any club that sacks it's chairman, coach and head of performance as well as seven senior players knows that they're going to have a bit of a rebuild on their hand. We're just arguing about how big a rebuild they thought they had ahead of themselves.

 

[Mostyn]

Jenkins played 11 games in 2019
Douglas played 9
Jacobs 5
Otten 3

Jacobs had a knee injury, as did Jenkins. They were 31 and 30, respectively - so not obviously at the end of their career. Both got multi-year deals elsewhere.

Keath played 18 games, Greenwood 14.

It's a genuine decision to cut those players loose. Many times in the past we would have just backed the boys in.

Of course there were two or three players who were natural attrition. But it's still a conscious decision to cut that many players, and all those key staff.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Jacobs had a knee injury, as did Jenkins. They were 31 and 30, respectively - so not obviously at the end of their career. Both got multi-year deals elsewhere.

Keath played 18 games, Greenwood 14.

It's a genuine decision to cut those players loose. Many times in the past we would have just backed the boys in.

Of course there were two or three players who were natural attrition. But it's still a conscious decision to cut that many players, and all those key staff.

And we were 10-12 without them doing anything much at all, and this with a coaching group that had lost the players

The depths of 2020 would have absolutely stunned us imho

 

[GreyCrow]

Jacobs had a knee injury, as did Jenkins. They were 31 and 30, respectively - so not obviously at the end of their career. Both got multi-year deals elsewhere.

Jacobs was offered a 1 year deal to stay at the AFC - got a 2 year deal of which he played 7 games in his first year and none on his 2nd. The Crows were right to offer 1

Jenkins played 1 game each year in the first 2 years 0f ( what I believe was ) a 3 year contract.

Not sure you can hang your hat on '' multi year contracts ''

Keath played 18 games, Greenwood 14.

It's a genuine decision to cut those players loose. Many times in the past we would have just backed the boys in.

Of course there were two or three players who were natural attrition. But it's still a conscious decision to cut that many players, and all those key staff.

We offered them contracts - they wanted more so we sideswiped them thinking we would get 1st or 2nd round picks for them and got sideswiped ourselves

Genuine decision or thinking on the run?

 

[ams4crows]

I'm thankful for round 0 this year purely so it means after round 1 is complete Port won't be top of the ladder after thrashing an inept West Coast.

 

[1970crow]

Jacobs had a knee injury, as did Jenkins. They were 31 and 30, respectively - so not obviously at the end of their career. Both got multi-year deals elsewhere.

Keath played 18 games, Greenwood 14.

It's a genuine decision to cut those players loose. Many times in the past we would have just backed the boys in.

Of course there were two or three players who were natural attrition. But it's still a conscious decision to cut that many players, and all those key staff.

Jacobs retired after one year, that he got a multi-year deal is meaningless. Both Greenwood and Keath had 2 year deals on the table. They chose 3 year deals with triggers instead.

 

[Mostyn]

And we were 10-12 without them doing anything much at all, and this with a coaching group that had lost the players

The depths of 2020 would have absolutely stunned us imho

We'd never even approached a season that bad, so there's a really good chance you could be right.

 

[DJ75]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/referee-assaulted-in-shocking-moment-during-ntfl-elimination-final/news-story/98cf26f773588ec40f751b8d1eb27774

Umpire assaulted in shocking moment during NTFL elimination final​

An umpire was thrown to the ground while opposition players were blindsided in a minute of absolute madness in the NTFL elimination final. Watch the shocking footage.


Don't miss out on the headlines from AFL. Followed categories will be added to My News.
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A teenage umpire has been hurled to ground by a Northern Territory footballer recently freed from jail during a shocking minute of violence in a Darwin footy game.
One of PINT’s star recruits could face a lengthy stint out of the game - if not be rubbed out of it entirely - after he was booted from the field for throwing a NTFL umpire to the ground.
Warwick Williams, who is in his first season back in the league after spending a year in jail for an assault conviction, was quickly ejected from the final after he threw an umpire to the ground and appeared to ‘king hit’ an opposition player.
Video footage of the incident clearly shows Williams crash into a contest midway through the final quarter of the emotional elimination final between PINT and Southern Districts.
He appears to strike at two Southern Districts opponents with the pair falling to the ground.

Williams is then involved in a melee with several players as a young umpire attempts to break up the commotion, Williams reaches out and grabs the referee and throws him to the ground.

The rough conduct forced senior umpire Mark Noonan to put Williams on report and send him from the field, not allowed to return for the rest of the match.

The match review panel usually release their charges on the Tuesday following the NTFL round, with Williams expected to be listed after being reported.

Williams was sentenced to three years and four months in jail in 2022 after he broke a man’s jaw during a violent altercation on Darwin’s party strip.

He was released last year after spending 14 months behind bars.

Life ban incoming.
Not that it matters, from the sounds of it he will be back in jail soon enough. Clearly has an anger issue.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I mean... they were widely publicised...

It's really not. You're making up some fantasy, to justify having made a bad call. You got it wrong, own it, and move on.

It's what I meant though. Saying "shits stuffed" is just shorthand for saying we'll be out of contention for a couple of years while we rebuild and it's on the list of things never uttered by Nicks in a job interview.

 

[Vader]

It's what I meant though. Saying "shits stuffed" is just shorthand for saying we'll be out of contention for a couple of years while we rebuild and it's on the list of things never uttered by Nicks in a job interview.

Everyone knew, as soon as they committed to the rebuild, that they were going to be out of contention for several years. That's what happens when you do a rebuild. Any coach who tried to sell them unicorn farts would have been laughed out of the room.