Opinion Non-Crows AFL 9

[Sanders]

If concussion injuries are treated more favourably under the cap, teams will exploit that.

Which will lead to an increase in concussion related injury and retirements - regardless of whether entirely true or just partially

And the AFL does not, for legal and PR reasons, want to see a spike in concussions

 

[Scorpus]

AFL media scrambling as Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

re-signs at Gold Coast. Who will they speculate about all year now?

 

[Crows I Am]

AFL media scrambling as Ben King re-signs at Gold Coast. Who will they speculate about all year now?

Hopefully Mattaes Phillipou before he requests a trade to us.

 

[Mostyn]

There is no way Nicks would have been hired if he told the club admin he expected to win a spoon in his first year. He would have sold them on sunlit uplands.

It's weird to hear people say this now.

We were obviously rebuilding and you can see it with everything we did.

That the club didn't come out and say publicly "we are doing a full tear down and rebuild" just seems like a common sense thing to do. Nothing to gain by saying it, but it is obvious that's what they were doing.

I think if any coach came in and said they wanted to top up and compete for finals, they wouldn't have gotten the job.

 

[George Kramer]

It's weird to hear people say this now.

We were obviously rebuilding and you can see it with everything we did.

That the club didn't come out and say publicly "we are doing a full tear down and rebuild" just seems like a common sense thing to do. Nothing to gain by saying it, but it is obvious that's what they were doing.

I think if any coach came in and said they wanted to top up and compete for finals, they wouldn't have gotten the job.

The club did not expect to be as bad as we were even after the initial cut and there’s no way Nicks would have said we were going to be shit. Roo said it, we still had a core of quality experienced players we expected to see us through but they didn’t.

It contained:

Tex, Sloane, Smith, Laird, Talia, Crouch x 2, Brown, Lynch, Milera, Atkins, O’Brien, Seeds, Kelly, Gibbs, Doedee, McAdam, Hartigan.

No way we should have lost 13 in a row with that nucleus and there were some thumpings.

We ended up with a deeper rebuild from that year as we had better picks but also pissed off more players at the end of it.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

It's weird to hear people say this now.

We were obviously rebuilding and you can see it with everything we did.

That the club didn't come out and say publicly "we are doing a full tear down and rebuild" just seems like a common sense thing to do. Nothing to gain by saying it, but it is obvious that's what they were doing.

I think if any coach came in and said they wanted to top up and compete for finals, they wouldn't have gotten the job.

This isn't backed up by history. Adelaide has never believed in rebuilding, at least not the "cut deep and bottom out" sort of rebuild. They've always tried to make finals each year. Nicks would have promised to turn the ship around from having come off 2 years without finals. Anyone that interviewed for the coaching gig and said "yeah shit's ****ed" would not have been considered.

 

[PeterSalt]

Be interesting to know how many people wish the club didn't cut so deeply into the list since Nicks appointment and wished we persevered to try and make finals

vs

Happy with the current direction of the list and the general direction the club has taken and heading. Albeit with a couple of really sh*t seasons

 

[cleanhands]

Has the sack Ken started yet?

 

[PeterSalt]

Has the sack Ken started yet?

Never stopped

 

[Faaarrk]

Be interesting to know how many people wish the club didn't cut so deeply into the list since Nicks appointment and wished we persevered to try and make finals

vs

Happy with the current direction of the list and the general direction the club has taken and heading. Albeit with a couple of really sh*t seasons

I would sooner cut deeper more often for a genuine chance at winning the premiership than make finals and anything can happen philosophy.

 

[Mostyn]

This isn't backed up by history. Adelaide has never believed in rebuilding, at least not the "cut deep and bottom out" sort of rebuild. They've always tried to make finals each year. Nicks would have promised to turn the ship around from having come off 2 years without finals. Anyone that interviewed for the coaching gig and said "yeah s**t's ****ed" would not have been considered.

But I think just look at what actually happened.

Pyke sacked. Burton sacked. Chairman exited. Jacobs let go. Betts let go. Greenwood and Keath let go. Jenkins let go. Otten and Douglas retiring after not being offered contracts.

If a coach came in and said - let's keep all those senior players and top up, we can compete for the finals - then they never would have gotten the job.

EVERYONE knew we were doing our first ever full rebuild. It was really obvious.

 

[Mostyn]

Be interesting to know how many people wish the club didn't cut so deeply into the list since Nicks appointment and wished we persevered to try and make finals

vs

Happy with the current direction of the list and the general direction the club has taken and heading. Albeit with a couple of really sh*t seasons

I wanted a full rebuild. We'd never done one and it was obviously needed, and it was needed throughout the club.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Pyke sacked. Burton sacked. Chairman exited. Jacobs let go. Betts let go. Greenwood and Keath let go. Jenkins let go. Otten and Douglas retiring after not being offered contracts.

Aside from Chapman's exit, none of this was planned out ahead of time. Roo mouthed off on a radio show and turned fans against the club. They accounced the review as a way to placate angry supporters which led to Pyke resigning and a bunch of people being sacked.

Betts, Jacobs, Jenkins, Douglas and Otten were cooked and they didn't rate Greenwood. I think Keath was the only one they would have had second thoughts about. The thinking at the time would have been that the core of the list is still good and that they were just clearing out some dead wood.

If a coach came in and said - let's keep all those senior players and top up, we can compete for the finals - then they never would have gotten the job.

I'm going by how the club has always operated. You've created a bizarro world version.

 

[Vader]

This isn't backed up by history. Adelaide has never believed in rebuilding, at least not the "cut deep and bottom out" sort of rebuild. They've always tried to make finals each year. Nicks would have promised to turn the ship around from having come off 2 years without finals. Anyone that interviewed for the coaching gig and said "yeah s**t's ****ed" would not have been considered.

Historically, you are correct. However, the Dunstall review made it abundantly clear to the club that this is exactly what was needed, and the Board committed themselves to seeing it through - for the first time in the club's history.

Nobody is saying that he said "yeah s**t's stuffed"... but that he would have put forward a plan for rebuilding the club, noting that they'd probably have a few rough years at the start of the rebuilding process.

Let's be clear about it - Nicks wasn't blowing smoke up their backsides, selling them pictures of unicorns farting rainbows, when he won the job.

 

[Mostyn]

Aside from Chapman's exit, none of this was planned out ahead of time. Roo mouthed off on a radio show and turned fans against the club. They accounced the review as a way to placate angry supporters which led to Pyke resigning and a bunch of people being sacked.

Betts, Jacobs, Jenkins, Douglas and Otten were cooked and they didn't rate Greenwood. I think Keath was the only one they would have had second thoughts about. The thinking at the time would have been that the core of the list is still good and that they were just clearing out some dead wood.

I'm going by how the club has always operated. You've created a bizarro world version.

Okay - this a weird view to hold.

We were in a Grand Final in 2017. Lots of injuries in 2018. By 2019, it's obvious we can't win with the squad.

Our coach, chairman and head of performance all get exited. So do about a third of our league side.

It was obviously a rebuild.

You're leaning really heavily into "we hadn't done it before", when that's not relevant. We'd only been around 30 years, we never needed to. Now we needed a full tear down.

It feels like you have another narrative that you're more comfortable with, and that's fine.

For me it seemed like a rebuild at the time, and it seems like a rebuild in retrospect.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Historically, you are correct. However, the Dunstall review made it abundantly clear to the club that this is exactly what was needed, and the Board committed themselves to seeing it through - for the first time in the club's history.

How do you know what the results of the review were and whether or not they adhered to the recommendations?

Nobody is saying that he said "yeah s**t's stuffed"... but that he would have put forward a plan for rebuilding the club, noting that they'd probably have a few rough years at the start of the rebuilding process.

It's the same thing. You just sugar coated it.

 

[Scorpus]

Okay - this a weird view to hold.

We were in a Grand Final in 2017. Lots of injuries in 2018. By 2019, it's obvious we can't win with the squad.

Our coach, chairman and head of performance all get exited. So do about a third of our league side.

It was obviously a rebuild.

You're leaning really heavily into "we hadn't done it before", when that's not relevant. We'd only been around 30 years, we never needed to. Now we needed a full tear down.

It feels like you have another narrative that you're more comfortable with, and that's fine.

For me it seemed like a rebuild at the time, and it seems like a rebuild in retrospect.

I think the question is more whether they believed it was a quick refresh of the list (ditch the Jenkins types and hope Jones/McHenry/McAsey/Fogarty come on quickly) or a full blown deep rebuild.

I highly doubt Nicks was hired with the club knowing they'd finish bottom 4 and would miss finals for 6 consecutive years

I mean the starting midfield in 2020 was Sloane, Crouch, Crouch, Gibbs and they still had Walker, Laird, Smith, Talia, Lynch, Hartigan and Seedsman. I find it hard to believe Nicks went to his interview and said that's a bottom 4 list that needs a further clean out

 

[GreyCrow]

Be interesting to know how many people wish the club didn't cut so deeply into the list since Nicks appointment and wished we persevered to try and make finals

Very happy with the cuts

vs

Happy with the current direction of the list and the general direction the club has taken and heading. Albeit with a couple of really sh*t seasons

Some of the direction has strayed off course imo

I dont think they cut enough or at least prioritised the direction they wanted to go

It seemed they wanted the cuts but didnt want to fail too much.

Its a broken record with me but if people are trying to change the narrative then I will continue my commentary

Choosing an obviously cooked Sloane over prioritising others was poor. And we did it time and time again. Choosing a senior player over a developing player

Some point to experience and it has its place but you dint need to be holding a spot in the As to bring that experience

I DO like what is happening but we must continue to mature and start making a deep run

 

[1970crow]

We were very successful when they started attacking us. And Melbourne have been suspiciously disappointing, if anything.

Jesus BACCS, we weren't "very successful", we'd made second week of finals twice and then cashed in on 2 home finals with a H&A record normally providing for 5th, sometimes 4th. There is zero rational argument for stating us as, "very successful".

And we were open to attack because, at a political level, we were thin skinned. Had we a backbone and competent management, those minor issues would have been resolved sans fanfare, but no. Just hoping that's changed and good news, no evidence that it hasn't. Chapman and his $hithouse sidekick were a stain on those that preceded them.

 

[1970crow]

Nicks round 1 team in 2020 had a midfield of Brad Crouch, Matt Crouch and Rory Sloane alongside 9 other players that played in our 2017 grand final (Walker, Smith, Laird, Lynch, Ratkins, Seedsman, Talia, Brown, Kelly).

He also had Bryce Gibbs and the addition of first round talent that wasn't around to play in the 2017 Grand Final - Milera, FOG, Jones, McAsey.

Nicks Round 1 team had an average age of 25.4 years and 94 games experience. We were the 10th oldest team out of 18. Our oldest player was Sloane who had just turned 30.

This team lost 13 games in a row and only kicked more than 10 goals twice in 18 matches.

but, but, but rebuild.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Choosing an obviously cooked Sloane over prioritising others was poor. And we did it time and time again. Choosing a senior player over a developing player

Some point to experience and it has its place but you dint need to be holding a spot in the As to bring that experience

Selection is an ongoing issue but it gets more frustrating every year as the list matures and Nicks stays the same.

 

[1970crow]

Where is the lie?

context is king, private joke, AFC979810 started it. BTW, Fox News is actually an unbiased news source, similarly is the ABC. It's just what happens after the news when things go sideways.

 

[1970crow]

There is no way Nicks would have been hired if he told the club admin he expected to win a spoon in his first year. He would have sold them on sunlit uplands.

Reality is we retired some dead wood, traded out fringe/role players that we didn't regard worthy of 3 year deals and brought in AFL ready bodies in Keays and Crocker. Noting that both are still on lists into their 5th season. Apologists incorrectly use this as evidence of gutting our list, when in fact, we just failed to correctly value them, as we'd done with guys like Lyons and CC.

 

[WetCrow1991]

We 100% took the piss during the league shutdown compared to other sides and it showed when play returned.

The club did not expect to be as bad as we were even after the initial cut and there’s no way Nicks would have said we were going to be s**t. Roo said it, we still had a core of quality experienced players we expected to see us through but they didn’t.

It contained:

Tex, Sloane, Smith, Laird, Talia, Crouch x 2, Brown, Lynch, Milera, Atkins, O’Brien, Seeds, Kelly, Gibbs, Doedee, McAdam, Hartigan.

No way we should have lost 13 in a row with that nucleus and there were some thumpings.

We ended up with a deeper rebuild from that year as we had better picks but also pissed off more players at the end of it.

 

[Mostyn]

I think the question is more whether they believed it was a quick refresh of the list (ditch the Jenkins types and hope Jones/McHenry/McAsey/Fogarty come on quickly) or a full blown deep rebuild.

I highly doubt Nicks was hired with the club knowing they'd finish bottom 4 and would miss finals for 6 consecutive years

I mean the starting midfield in 2020 was Sloane, Crouch, Crouch, Gibbs and they still had Walker, Laird, Smith, Talia, Lynch, Hartigan and Seedsman. I find it hard to believe Nicks went to his interview and said that's a bottom 4 list that needs a further clean out

Maybe.

I feel like every single post of the time was talking about the rebuild we were beginning.

I also remember a few folks saying be careful what you wish for, because rebuilds take a minimum five years.

I feel like the decision to take talls like Thilthorpe and McAsey also spoke of the fact we were in it for the long haul, because the classic way to stay a rebuild is to draft your spine first.

But I guess there's no way to know what the club truly thought.

Their actions were to sack the key club leadership roles and a third of the starting 22, but maybe they thought there was a quick rebound coming.