Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Football Thread XVI

[BrunoV]

So what is Geelong currently looking at, losing Selwood, Dalhaus, Higgins, Narkle, Evans and a few non-starters and replacing them with Bruhn, Oliver, Bowes and possibly pick 7?

They'll get younger and, while replacing Selwood is a complicated prospect because he is much more than the ailing on field player he was this year, they'll get a significantly stronger list having just won a flag.

I'm not entirely sure that there are cap difficulties in attempting all of this. Geelong isn't actually packed with stars in their respective primes, they are dads army after all. There are a lot of mature senior guys who have already made their money and who probably aren't playing elsewhere. Trying to bring in Grundy on $700 to $800 a year for 5 is another matter, particularly as there are other targets.

I don't think they'll need to do more than spread Bowes' money evenly over 3 years. Adding 1 extra year for a guy like that is not a bit deal (particularly given that he can play). They get to do that because they are Geelong. Bowes also gets to become a man and surf in real water.

I think I've got a bit of Stockholm Syndrome. I want to see them pull it all off and dominate. They need to show up the incompetence of the rest of the competition.

 

[windyhill]

Spring cleaning today, you never know when Clarko will drop in.

 

[Doss]

So what is Geelong currently looking at, losing Selwood, Dalhaus, Higgins, Narkle, Evans and a few non-starters and replacing them with Bruhn, Oliver, Bowes and possibly pick 7?

They'll get younger and, while replacing Selwood is a complicated prospect because he is much more than the ailing on field player he was this year, they'll get a significantly stronger list having just won a flag.

I'm not entirely sure that there are cap difficulties in attempting all of this. Geelong isn't actually packed with stars in their respective primes, they are dads army after all. There are a lot of mature senior guys who have already made their money and who probably aren't playing elsewhere. Trying to bring in Grundy on $700 to $800 a year for 5 is another matter, particularly as there are other targets.

I don't think they'll need to do more than spread Bowes' money evenly over 3 years. Adding 1 extra year for a guy like that is not a bit deal (particularly given that he can play). They get to do that because they are Geelong. Bowes also gets to become a man and surf in real water.

I think I've got a bit of Stockholm Syndrome. I want to see them pull it all off and dominate. They need to show up the incompetence of the rest of the competition.

I can’t really provide a logical reason why, but I’ve never got sick of Geelong being good in the same way I did with Brisbane, or Hawthorn, or Richmond.

It’s not that I loved it per se (but respected the shit out of how they’ve done it), but it certainly has never inspired the same revulsion as the others I mentioned.

 

[bomberman500]

I can’t really provide a logical reason why, but I’ve never got sick of Geelong being good in the same way I did with Brisbane, or Hawthorn, or Richmond.

It’s not that I loved it per se (but respected the s**t out of how they’ve done it), but it certainly has never inspired the same revulsion as the others I mentioned.

you'll see this become more common in the era of player movement. good players going to good clubs for less money to succeed.
the wheel will eventually turn for Geelong. only so long you can keep bringing in Dangerfields and Camerons.
TBH with their list they should have had another 3 or 4 flags, if not for Chris Scott trying to out coach the other coach and making some head scratching coaching calls

in the 90s an 8 year run up the pointy end was a good. now teams stay at one end of the ladder for longer

 

[faible]

you'll see this become more common in the era of player movement. good players going to good clubs for less money to succeed.
the wheel will eventually turn for Geelong. only so long you can keep bringing in Dangerfields and Camerons.
TBH with their list they should have had another 3 or 4 flags, if not for Chris Scott trying to out coach the other coach and making some head scratching coaching calls

in the 90s an 8 year run up the pointy end was a good. now teams stay at one end of the ladder for longer

Geelong have rarely had the best list in the comp in their time, even this year Melbourne's form in the first half of the year was good enough to go back to back, until they fell apart.

Geelong have just been immaculately run over over a decade to remain consistently competitive, how much of that is down to Selwood's on-field leadership? We're going to find out over the next season or two.

Scott has done a great job rejigging how Geelong play and getting more out of their role players instead of relying on their top-liners every week.

 

[citizen-erased]

Sympathy for North and Hawthorn.

Tassie licence getting easier to green light
seeds sewn by both

Down to VFL for both (good balance of 8 teams in Vic), new licence for Tassie.
May as well close off St Kilda too for even numbers.

 

[bomberman500]

Geelong have rarely had the best list in the comp in their time, even this year Melbourne's form in the first half of the year was good enough to go back to back, until they fell apart.

Geelong have just been immaculately run over over a decade to remain consistently competitive, how much of that is down to Selwood's on-field leadership? We're going to find out over the next season or two.

Scott has done a great job rejigging how Geelong play and getting more out of their role players instead of relying on their top-liners every week.

From 2007 until now I would say Geelong have had either the 1st or 2nd best list in the comp at least half the time. They have royally shit the bed in finals, and much of that was Chris Scott thinking (or wanting)it to be because of a coaching move he made. many a finals series I would see them play differently, or some weird positional call, like Blicavs to the wing one year (whichever year he was an AA backman)

as for a club to get maximum results out of a list that wasnt the best, look no further than Dimma and Richmond.

 

[faible]

From 2007 until now I would say Geelong have had either the 1st or 2nd best list in the comp at least half the time. They have royally s**t the bed in finals, and much of that was Chris Scott thinking (or wanting)it to be because of a coaching move he made. many a finals series I would see them play differently, or some weird positional call, like Blicavs to the wing one year (whichever year he was an AA backman)

as for a club to get maximum results out of a list that wasnt the best, look no further than Dimma and Richmond.

Disagree.

 

[Doss]

Geelong had the best list from 2007 to 2011 I’d say.

 

[BrunoV]

From 2007 until now I would say Geelong have had either the 1st or 2nd best list in the comp at least half the time. They have royally s**t the bed in finals, and much of that was Chris Scott thinking (or wanting)it to be because of a coaching move he made. many a finals series I would see them play differently, or some weird positional call, like Blicavs to the wing one year (whichever year he was an AA backman)

as for a club to get maximum results out of a list that wasnt the best, look no further than Dimma and Richmond.

That's the instinctive reaction once they get Danger in but they always had massive flaws.

Poor, uncompetitive rucks that they've only just worked out how to manage. Lack of run. 1 key forward and really only 1 forward for a long time (I.e. Hawkins). Inability to play a front half pressure game until 2019/2020.

Their list wasn't what we though it was until 2020. This year, with the addition of a 20 game Cameron, SDK, Stengel and the maturity of Miers and Close they probably did become the best list - not that anyone thought that.

 

[Doss]

Geelong were really prone to being killed on the rebound and transition around 2016-18. Lack of pace a big factor there.

Just cast your mind back to our wins against them in 2017 and 2018.

 

[Lore]

hm.

An AFL Players’ Association survey of AFL players has reported “concerning” incidences of racial vilification from people within the football industry among players’ experiences of racism.

Only 17 per cent of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander or people of colour surveyed said they felt that racism experienced while listed as AFL players was dealt with to their satisfaction, according to a report released by the AFLPA on Thursday.

Former players at the centre of Hawthorn investigation will talk - to an AFL-free hearing

The First Nations players and partners who have made allegations of mistreatment by Hawthorn senior officials want to tell their stories in an independent hearing, free of AFL influence.

www.theage.com.au

 

[jmoo wan]

hm.

Former players at the centre of Hawthorn investigation will talk - to an AFL-free hearing

The First Nations players and partners who have made allegations of mistreatment by Hawthorn senior officials want to tell their stories in an independent hearing, free of AFL influence.

www.theage.com.au

this is where I think Essendon's approach works well - can't have instances of racial vilification of first nations people, if you don't have any first nations people on the list.

 

[doug85]

this is where I think Essendon's approach works well - can't have instances of racial vilification of first nations people, if you don't have any first nations people on the list.

That was Hawthornes policy until about 15 years ago.

 

[Lore]

Notable that most of the reported instances of racism are on social media, so not within clubs, and it was about a third of Indigenous players who had experienced racism, with half of those saying it wasn't well handled.

The total survey had 92 participants, so about 30 had experienced racism and about 15 weren't handled well. They're not good numbers but it does give some perspective on the issue.

What that seems to indicate is that all clubs need to review how they deal with social media racism in particular, as opposed to a deep systemic paternalistic attitude by clubs towards First Nations players, while a couple of clubs obviously have had deeper systemic issues.

The few that aren't on social media are more intriguing, I wonder if that's match-day abuse or something within the club?

I think Essendon has revoked memberships for a couple of fans who were involved in abusing an opposition player online, I'm not sure what else they can do besides referring it to the police, who probably won't do anything (that's the more systemic issue but not one that the AFL has any control over).

For Essendon, I think indications are reasonably good with Jacara Egan and Courtney Ugle working in that space at the club to ensure it's a culturally safe space and supporting our Indigenous players. I find Kirby Bentley to be quite impressive when I've heard her speak as well, so I'm glad she's around the club too even if her job isn't explicitly about First Nations inclusion.

 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

Notable that most of the reported instances of racism are on social media, so not within clubs, and it was about a third of Indigenous players who had experienced racism, with half of those saying it wasn't well handled.

The total survey had 92 participants, so about 30 had experienced racism and about 15 weren't handled well. They're not good numbers but it does give some perspective on the issue.

What that seems to indicate is that all clubs need to review how they deal with social media racism in particular, as opposed to a deep systemic paternalistic attitude by clubs towards First Nations players, while a couple of clubs obviously have had deeper systemic issues.

The few that aren't on social media are more intriguing, I wonder if that's match-day abuse or something within the club?

I think Essendon has revoked memberships for a couple of fans who were involved in abusing an opposition player online, I'm not sure what else they can do besides referring it to the police, who probably won't do anything (that's the more systemic issue but not one that the AFL has any control over).

For Essendon, I think indications are reasonably good with Jacara Egan and Courtney Ugle working in that space at the club to ensure it's a culturally safe space and supporting our Indigenous players. I find Kirby Bentley to be quite impressive when I've heard her speak as well, so I'm glad she's around the club too even if her job isn't explicitly about First Nations inclusion.

Not to mention Sheedy with his strong connection to the indigenous community. Them giving him the Hawks report shows how close that is.

 

[Beerfish]

I can’t really provide a logical reason why, but I’ve never got sick of Geelong being good in the same way I did with Brisbane, or Hawthorn, or Richmond.

My enemy's enemy.

 

[sameolds33]

I can’t really provide a logical reason why, but I’ve never got sick of Geelong being good in the same way I did with Brisbane, or Hawthorn, or Richmond.

It’s not that I loved it per se (but respected the s**t out of how they’ve done it), but it certainly has never inspired the same revulsion as the others I mentioned.

It's not logical - its emotional. I feel the same because my son supports Geelong (and I love him and his passion for his team) and because of Bomber and James Kelly being associated with both clubs.

 

[sameolds33]

Geelong have rarely had the best list in the comp in their time, even this year Melbourne's form in the first half of the year was good enough to go back to back, until they fell apart.

Geelong have just been immaculately run over over a decade to remain consistently competitive, how much of that is down to Selwood's on-field leadership? We're going to find out over the next season or two.

Scott has done a great job rejigging how Geelong play and getting more out of their role players instead of relying on their top-liners every week.

A well run club will always be more successful than one which is not, regardless of the talent of the players and the coaching staff. Look at Richmond and the turn around achieved under Peggy O'Neil, Brendan Gale and Neil Balme. Similarly, GCS has had more on-field success now that its admin is more stable. People forget that it too was caught up in the AFL's Dank experiment.

 

[Lore]

Adelaide do a joint BnF for their mens and womens teams apparently, so they've just named their club champ for the previous AFLW season that finished in March:

 

[jmoo wan]

because my son supports Geelong

how does this happen?

 

[Doss]

how does this happen?

My old man is Richmond, mother is Sydney/previously South.

 

[jmoo wan]

My old man is Richmond, mother is Sydney/previously South.

cool… but how does this make sameolds33 son a Geelong supporter?

 

[Lore]

 

[faible]

Adelaide do a joint BnF for their mens and womens teams apparently, so they've just named their club champ for the previous AFLW season that finished in March:

Awkward if said player wasn't at the club anymore given the delay.