Mega Thread Non-Freo AFL Discussion 2022 - Part 2

[Joao]

I still like Huge, wish he could do whatever it is he isn't and make a fist of it.

 

[DragoDelph]

Clarkson “shocked” and denies any wrongdoing in statement on racism claims

The former Hawthorn coach has released a statement.

www.sen.com.au

Saw that.

He may not have been made aware of the report, but he was made aware of the article in the ABC and given chance to comment.

There also 'feels' like a lot of righteous indignation in that statement

 

[One_Wing]

So both Dixon and Strnadica have been let go now. Vindication that Freo were correct to delist them both first.

think Nads stepped away from West Coast after deciding AFL wasnt for him

 

[Tonga Bob]

Clarkson “shocked” and denies any wrongdoing in statement on racism claims

The former Hawthorn coach has released a statement.

www.sen.com.au

 

[Bastyy]

Bastyy right now:

HE WILL RETURN

 

[Ge3ks]

think Nads stepped away from West Coast after deciding AFL wasnt for him

Playing for West Coast in 2022 will do that to you.

 

[StingBitten]

I gave a few of my insights working in an ACCO and with Aboriginal communities on the Hawks board if anyone feels like giving it a read. I'm no expert but I was surprised at the positive reaction. I feel like half of what I wrote is fairly commonly known over here in the West but was completely news to a fair amount of their supporters.

 

[Square Peg]

Even if this had nothing to do with race, pressuring young players to end relationships, cut them off completely from communication with their partners, pressuring them to terminate pregnancies is a sackable offence too.

No shit?

 

[SiempreFreo]

I’ve been thinking. This report became available to Hawthorn two weeks ago. Hawthorn, North and Brisbane are all owned by the AFL. Surely Hawthorn would have been under obligation to report this to the AFL at least a week ago? Yet it gets broken by the media, AFL call a reactive presser, Fagan stands down but his club maintain he hasn’t been consulted on the issue, and Clarko is still silent.
This seems poorly handled. Has Hawthorn thrown everyone under the bus or have the AFL sat on it for a week hoping it goes away?

Maybe not 'poorly handled' from Brisbane's POV for Hawks to refrain from dropping bombshell while Lions play out finals...

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Maybe not 'poorly handled' from Brisbane's POV for Hawks to refrain from dropping bombshell while Lions play out finals...

Yeah that’s a good point

 

[Tonga Bob]

I gave a few of my insights working in an ACCO and with Aboriginal communities on the Hawks board if anyone feels like giving it a read. I'm no expert but I was surprised at the positive reaction. I feel like half of what I wrote is fairly commonly known over here in the West but was completely news to a fair amount of their supporters.

Well said, seems they got something of value from it.

 

[tonygeeks]

Not really about this report specifically but it does raise an interesting ‘conundrum’ re what a club should do ( not that obviously) if they think a player’s domestic situation isn’t going to allow the player to perform at the level required to succeed

( fact ) lots of women/men would not be very good people for elite athletes to be around ( even some mothers ) so if the club thought the environment the player was living in was harming his chances of a career should they do anything ( again not to that extent)

Is it morally wrong to encourage a player to make changes in his personal life if they are convinced the player won’t be able to succeed if things stay the same ?

Normal circumstances it’s ( obviously) not within an employer’s influence but that’s getting to the issue of can you treat a elite sportsman as a ( normal ) employee

So if the club does nothing and just cuts the player ASAP rather than trying to intervene in a situation they think is having a negative influence on the player they have done the right thing and get a big tick

The racial side of this latest blow up is inflammatory but leaving that tinderbox aside it does pose some interesting questions regarding player / club relationships

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Tears flow as umpire learns of Grand Final debut

The three umpires selected for the 2022 Toyota AFL Grand Final get a life-changing phone call ahead of the decider

www.afl.com.au

A bit of a change of topic but I absolutely loved this.

 

[gaskin]

Not really about this report specifically but it does raise an interesting ‘conundrum’ re what a club should do ( not that obviously) if they think a player’s domestic situation isn’t going to allow the player to perform at the level required to succeed

( fact ) lots of women/men would not be very good people for elite athletes to be around ( even some mothers ) so if the club thought the environment the player was living in was harming his chances of a career should they do anything ( again not to that extent)

Is it morally wrong to encourage a player to make changes in his personal life if they are convinced the player won’t be able to succeed if things stay the same ?

Normal circumstances it’s ( obviously) not within an employer’s influence but that’s getting to the issue of can you treat a elite sportsman as a ( normal ) employee

So if the club does nothing and just cuts the player ASAP rather than trying to intervene in a situation they think is having a negative influence on the player they have done the right thing and get a big tick

The racial side of this latest blow up is inflammatory but leaving that tinderbox aside it does pose some interesting questions regarding player / club relationships

Should they do anything? No. There is nothing a club can do. They can raise their thoughts with the player but it is up to the player whether they make any changes.

 

[AstonSouffle]

Not really about this report specifically but it does raise an interesting ‘conundrum’ re what a club should do ( not that obviously) if they think a player’s domestic situation isn’t going to allow the player to perform at the level required to succeed

( fact ) lots of women/men would not be very good people for elite athletes to be around ( even some mothers ) so if the club thought the environment the player was living in was harming his chances of a career should they do anything ( again not to that extent)

Is it morally wrong to encourage a player to make changes in his personal life if they are convinced the player won’t be able to succeed if things stay the same ?

Normal circumstances it’s ( obviously) not within an employer’s influence but that’s getting to the issue of can you treat a elite sportsman as a ( normal ) employee

So if the club does nothing and just cuts the player ASAP rather than trying to intervene in a situation they think is having a negative influence on the player they have done the right thing and get a big tick

The racial side of this latest blow up is inflammatory but leaving that tinderbox aside it does pose some interesting questions regarding player / club relationships

Get what you're saying, but there's a huge difference between - stop ripping nangs, smashing pingas, smoking meth etc. vs. don't spend time with your family.

I'd probably be rich if I didn't have kids lol, but alas here we are - I love em and I'd throw down if my employer even tried to give me advice on the matter in the pursuit of success.

 

[DragoDelph]

I think what is misunderstood is that border between offering advice and taking control.

anyone can offer advice, especially if someone comes to them with a problem. However it is still up to the individual to make the decision. As soon as that decision and agency is taken away, it crosses into areas of abuse.

I give advice to my kids, help them weigh up the pros and cons of their decisions, but ultimately it is still THEIR decision to make.

Yes, sometimes we defer our decision-making to another, but this is generally done with consent. If it is true that these decisions were taken away, without consent, there should be massive implications. (remains to be seen if there WILL be however)

Apologies if this is a little less coherent than my normal observations, there is A LOT in my head right now. Essentially; advice = ok, control = not ok.

 

[Purple_Turtle]

Not really about this report specifically but it does raise an interesting ‘conundrum’ re what a club should do ( not that obviously) if they think a player’s domestic situation isn’t going to allow the player to perform at the level required to succeed

( fact ) lots of women/men would not be very good people for elite athletes to be around ( even some mothers ) so if the club thought the environment the player was living in was harming his chances of a career should they do anything ( again not to that extent)

Is it morally wrong to encourage a player to make changes in his personal life if they are convinced the player won’t be able to succeed if things stay the same ?

Normal circumstances it’s ( obviously) not within an employer’s influence but that’s getting to the issue of can you treat a elite sportsman as a ( normal ) employee

So if the club does nothing and just cuts the player ASAP rather than trying to intervene in a situation they think is having a negative influence on the player they have done the right thing and get a big tick

The racial side of this latest blow up is inflammatory but leaving that tinderbox aside it does pose some interesting questions regarding player / club relationships

There's definitely a line Hawthorn crossed.

1. Preventing a players partner or family from contacting them. In my mind it would be one thing if they encouraged a player to realise a particular family member was toxic and there's clear negative behavior to be cited, but smashing a SIM card and preventing any sort of contact with an entire player's family and partner where it doesn't seem like there anything wrong in the player's conduct or their families is too much control over the personal life.

2. Pushing a player to have his partner receive an abortion. Unfortunately from my quick reading this isn't covered by discrimination legislation (which makes unlawful for an employer to discriminate against a woman for being pregnant or planning to become pregnant) but I feel pushing an employee's partner towards abortion because it's more convenient for the employer is morally wrong. Particularly since abortions can be traumatic and the woman who received one definitely seems to be traumatised from the experience (mourning the lost child and the like.)

 

[Dump Truck]

If we are, it's about to become patricide.

Puts the Simpson "private school" comments in a new light you would think.

It sure does

What were these comments? I must have avoided media whenever this came about.

 

[Unique Name]

You can educate and advise.

But you can't make decisions for them, or through your position of power put them in a situation where they have no choice.

 

[DragoDelph]

What were these comments? I must have avoided media whenever this came about.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-coach-believes-clubs-will-only-recruit-private-school-kids-in-the-future/news-story/81ae2222daecdfdb2923620dad4fa4ff?amp

 

[Dump Truck]

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-coach-believes-clubs-will-only-recruit-private-school-kids-in-the-future/news-story/81ae2222daecdfdb2923620dad4fa4ff?amp

jfc!

 

[SiempreFreo]

Not really about this report specifically but it does raise an interesting ‘conundrum’ re what a club should do ( not that obviously) if they think a player’s domestic situation isn’t going to allow the player to perform at the level required to succeed

( fact ) lots of women/men would not be very good people for elite athletes to be around ( even some mothers ) so if the club thought the environment the player was living in was harming his chances of a career should they do anything ( again not to that extent)

Is it morally wrong to encourage a player to make changes in his personal life if they are convinced the player won’t be able to succeed if things stay the same ?

Normal circumstances it’s ( obviously) not within an employer’s influence but that’s getting to the issue of can you treat a elite sportsman as a ( normal ) employee

So if the club does nothing and just cuts the player ASAP rather than trying to intervene in a situation they think is having a negative influence on the player they have done the right thing and get a big tick

The racial side of this latest blow up is inflammatory but leaving that tinderbox aside it does pose some interesting questions regarding player / club relationships

Sure does, and answers are not (wordplay unavoidable) black and white.
Drug-taking, sleazy behaviour, questionable company etc. are all potentially detrimental life-choice issues that clubs take positions on vis-à-vis their players.
And just sometimes (emphasise ‘sometimes’) what gets called out as racism might be more profoundly explored as cultural differences. That said, the Hawks examples as given read like whitefella paternalism at its worst.

 

[Square Peg]

Lordy not this again. Simpson isn't saying that's what he wants to happen, he's providing a warning. Like Rendell was providing a warning. I mean are people living in complete fairyland that every player regardless of cultural, family or geographic background is equally likely to thrive in the AFL pressure cooker? We might all wish it were true, but it ain't true.

 

[BeinPurplenGreen]

Today has been an unexpectedly testing day for many people. I can only imagine how hard the last 10 years have been for the people directly impacted by the events in the reports.

When I first heard the radio snippet at 5:25 this morning I thought I must have missed part of the story. But the more I heard, and the more I read, and the longer the day went, the worse it got.

It is hard to be an AFL fan, or a sports fan, or an Australian, or a human being, and not have cause for pause today.

I don't know what the answers are, what the future holds for our team and players (past, present or future) or how to best react and support our proud and valued indigenous players. And I'm not sure typing on an internet forum can ever achieve anything meaningful, in and of itself. But I hope that the widespread revulsion and reactions to the initial reports provide some semblance of reassurance that most of Australia still has basic decency, love and human compassion, and can realise shithouse behaviour and abuse of human beings when they hear about it.

When I heard George and the fellas play this live for the first time, and the crowd of all backgrounds go absolutely nuts with joy, I just always thought things might somehow get better before I reached old age. Turns out we still have a way to go.



Gee I hope we are reaching out to all of our past and present players and staff, their families and their communities to see if we can support them.

 

[greatgatsby]

Lordy not this again. Simpson isn't saying that's what he wants to happen, he's providing a warning. Like Rendell was providing a warning. I mean are people living in complete fairyland that every player regardless of cultural, family or geographic background is equally likely to thrive in the AFL pressure cooker? We might all wish it were true, but it ain't true.

Yes, it's so tiresome. Simpson was trying to say (and I think he did a decent job before being assaulted by the cancel culture folks) that resource constraints might have the unintended consequence of clubs not devoting the attention they needed to ensure that young people from less comfortable backgrounds were looked after in the AFL environment. To be clear, he wasn't arguing that clubs should actively seek to limit their recruiting efforts to kids from comfortable backgrounds.