Mega Thread Non-Freo AFL Discussion 2022 - Part 2

[Lach72]

The complete brokenness on Eddie Betts face tonight.
I hate this country sometimes.

i have no doubt this occurred

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

The complete brokenness on Eddie Betts face tonight.
I hate this country sometimes.

i have no doubt this occurred

How's the story about the racist old Grandparents
A) Just **** off you old coots
B) Grow a ****ing backbone security guard

 

[E Shed]

Not really about this report specifically but it does raise an interesting ‘conundrum’ re what a club should do ( not that obviously) if they think a player’s domestic situation isn’t going to allow the player to perform at the level required to succeed

( fact ) lots of women/men would not be very good people for elite athletes to be around ( even some mothers ) so if the club thought the environment the player was living in was harming his chances of a career should they do anything ( again not to that extent)

Is it morally wrong to encourage a player to make changes in his personal life if they are convinced the player won’t be able to succeed if things stay the same ?

Normal circumstances it’s ( obviously) not within an employer’s influence but that’s getting to the issue of can you treat a elite sportsman as a ( normal ) employee

So if the club does nothing and just cuts the player ASAP rather than trying to intervene in a situation they think is having a negative influence on the player they have done the right thing and get a big tick

The racial side of this latest blow up is inflammatory but leaving that tinderbox aside it does pose some interesting questions regarding player / club relationships

Nicely put. Working as a drug & alcohol counselor it’s hard to avoid suggesting to people (black or white) that getting away from bad influence be it friends or partner or family would be in their interest if they really want to change behaviors.

What has been reported is not ok but there is certainly room for nuance in this discussion.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

If this happened at Freo I wouldn’t support the club any more.

Me too. I'd be done like a flash.

 

[BeinPurplenGreen]

I so hope this is a turning point.

As someone who came from overseas, Australia is such a wonderful place, with such wonderful people who are capable of such amazing things.
Yet we still have so much sustained, ingrained abysmal treatment of people who had no choice in western civilization arriving, and have never been treated fairly or really included as equals.

We can be so much better as a society. It starts with all of us.

 

[greatgatsby]

Nicely put. Working as a drug & alcohol counselor it’s hard to avoid suggesting to people (black or white) that getting away from bad influence be it friends or partner or family would be in their interest if they really want to change behaviors.

What has been reported is not ok but there is certainly room for nuance in this discussion.

I agree, but there is such a gulf between encouraging people away from bad influences and what went down in these circumstances.

 

[wafti123]

Yes, it's so tiresome. Simpson was trying to say (and I think he did a decent job before being assaulted by the cancel culture folks) that resource constraints might have the unintended consequence of clubs not devoting the attention they needed to ensure that young people from less comfortable backgrounds were looked after in the AFL environment. To be clear, he wasn't arguing that clubs should actively seek to limit their recruiting efforts to kids from comfortable backgrounds.

Too right. It was a round about way of saying he didn't want this to happen.

 

[sumavich]

The more you hear, the worse it gets

 

[StingBitten]

Wish I could say we were squeaky clean.

Had a bit to do with Shane Yarran

Shane Yarran

Age

35

Ht

185cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.7

5star

No current season stats available

D

11.8

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

4star

G

1.8

5star

's family and they were disappointed in the lack of communication and support.

However, many other Indigenous ex-players have said they loved our club to pieces.

 

[BeinPurplenGreen]

Nicely put. Working as a drug & alcohol counselor it’s hard to avoid suggesting to people (black or white) that getting away from bad influence be it friends or partner or family would be in their interest if they really want to change behaviors.

What has been reported is not ok but there is certainly room for nuance in this discussion.

I hear ya E, and agree if we are talking about the difficult discussions around how society can best approach broader support for addicts, troubled young folks or others in general societal terms. As I know you know from our earlier convos about the work you do, it is really hard to balance the "bad influences get more bad results" advice with the "improve yourself and turn over a new leaf" discussion for those sort of cases.

But when the context is a young athlete being directly confronted by "coaches" or "football operations managers", and the advice / instruction is delivered in the context of their ability to keep playing AFL (or even to have a chance to stay on an AFL list), I think it is a completely different power context to the discussion with someone who is in the more general discussion with a client around addiction support, recent release from criminal detention, or support for antisocial behaviours.

For me, the power imbalance means the AFL players (and for that matter VFL, WAFL, SANFL or even ammos school level footballers) copping the sort of behaviour set out in the report are actually subject to way more direct pressure, coming from far less qualified (yet more powerful) people, with much greater feelings of shaming and failure attached to the "instructions" from the coaches or staff.

Professional counsellors and support staff do a way better job of offering support, often with little thanks or support - and yet those professional addiction counsellors have far less power or prestige or influence than a major sports coach or staff member does.

Also, the whole linkage of "advice to get away from bad influences" to things like whether partners maintain pregnancies, and if they are allowed to stay in the same suburb, house or relationship, is a pretty big stretch. Without getting too deep into my professional background, I'm not aware of any circumstance where a professionally qualified effort to provide lifestyle change support, addiction treatment or support for re-entry into society from prison would ever, ever, ever under any circumstances even broach the subject of the future of a client's pregnancy.

Even if there were communication difficulties and misunderstandings - that whole subject is just such a no go area, stunning that it could ever even be seen as appropriate for club staff to even open their mouths about it.

No player, of any sport, of any gender, at any level of competition, should ever be subjected to relationship or child bearing advice from their coaches or sports administrators.

 

[Lach72]

I just can’t fathom the logic of people who think these stories are fabrications.

”yeah mate…guess what I waited for 10 years after I was delisted and for the club to approach me to fix up Clarko! Yeah bloody awesome, I risk complete exposure and harassment by every redneck in Australia! How good is it mate? even my ex…yeah, got her to lie and say Clarko forced her to get an abortion!
yeah, I’m gonna win big!

 

[Kram]

I just can’t fathom the logic of people who think these stories are fabrications.

”yeah mate…guess what I waited for 10 years after I was delisted and for the club to approach me to fix up Clarko! Yeah bloody awesome, I risk complete exposure and harassment by every redneck in Australia! How good is it mate? even my ex…yeah, got her to lie and say Clarko forced her to get an abortion!
yeah, I’m gonna win big!

Yep what's the motivation for multiple people making this stuff up...

As I said earlier 100% Clarkson is finished in the AFL and unless North are the worst run sporting orginisation ever they would have spent the day trying to figure out a plan on replacing him.

 

[greatgatsby]

I just can’t fathom the logic of people who think these stories are fabrications.

”yeah mate…guess what I waited for 10 years after I was delisted and for the club to approach me to fix up Clarko! Yeah bloody awesome, I risk complete exposure and harassment by every redneck in Australia! How good is it mate? even my ex…yeah, got her to lie and say Clarko forced her to get an abortion!
yeah, I’m gonna win big!

Especially since these people now face further scrutiny and have to re-tell their experiences - "Are you sure you didn't make all this up?"

 

[Kapow!!!]

Wish I could say we were squeaky clean.

Had a bit to do with Shane Yarran's family and they were disappointed in the lack of communication and support.

However, many other Indigenous ex-players have said they loved our club to pieces.

I've been wondering about that a lot today whilst mentally going through our past history and Yarran was the major one that came to mind. That was incredibly sad and I was and still am disappointed in how little help we gave him. Genuinely shed a few tears when the worst came for him .

 

[rgauci]

I've been wondering about that a lot today whilst mentally going through our past history and Yarran was the major one that came to mind. That was incredibly sad and I was and still am disappointed in how little help we gave him. Genuinely shed a few tears when the worst came for him .

I’m more interested in how a police officer came to press charges, which were subsequently dropped for lack of evidence. That started the ball rolling.

Fremantle were overly aggressive in kicking him out of the club, which started a nasty spiral. A sliding doors moment to be honest.

He’d had a rough start and did some bad things, hence the jail time, but it appeared he’d turned it around.

If the officer never charged him, if Fremantle supported him, and saw it through until the charges be dropped. Things might be different.

 

[Daddoo]

So wait, a guy who punches fans is an arseh*le? Shocking.

Alastair Clarkson lashes out at fan yelling in face after defeat | Daily Mail Online

Confrontation after drunk man goads Hawthorn coach Alastair Clarkson

www.dailymail.co.uk

I have no other words to describe this situation except ***king disgusting.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[greatgatsby]

I’m more interested in how a police officer came to press charges, which were subsequently dropped for lack of evidence. That started the ball rolling.

Fremantle were overly aggressive in kicking him out of the club, which started a nasty spiral. A sliding doors moment to be honest.

He’d had a rough start and did some bad things, hence the jail time, but it appeared he’d turned it around.

If the officer never charged him, if Fremantle supported him, and saw it through until the charges be dropped. Things might be different.

Need to be careful about excusing domestic violence. There are many reasons why women don't press charges.

 

[Kram]

Yarran's story is sad but his crimes were hardly something minor...

 

[Descent]

The main board is f***ked.

 

[dropbear101]

i reckon its true.
they say an early warning sign of abuse (or as a result of abuse) is the perpetrator isolating the person from people can help them. so yeah, i think its abuse and it should be in court if true.

but, i also wish to know a lot more. like who else knew, these thing have a habit of leaking out into playing groups,..etc.

also pople are saying this will get swept under the carpet. i respectfully disagree. this shares much more in common with the essedon drug saga now. the severity of the crime means outside forces will get involved and thus the afl will be forced to actually do something.

People are talking about its potential to impact other clubs. I think it already has, this is a part of a much more broader reckoning with the past. so hawthorn are coping it, as are north and brisbane, adelaide several years ago, collingwood last year.

i finished uni and got a job in northern australia i have been up here a while now. ill be frank, the town compared to where i grew up has more than a few social problems, rapes, crimes, violence,..etc. thus i wish to talk about how a few people have raised some ideas around the nuances of potentially having family members who are bad influences. sometimes its true, but ultimately you've gotta take the person you know at face value and trust them. trust that people rise above that.
another thing i've gotta raise is the idea of severing bonds because its good for them. i also disagree with this notion. even if the person has a parent who steals from them,..etc. they will still love them.
so no, isolation from people you yearn for isnt going to work. The idea that it would brings up comparison with the stolen generation and it also shows a wilful lack of understanding of human nature.

One of the things that always stood out to me is that although freo are a young club we have the most indigenous games played in the league. ive always wondered if this should be a point of pride for freo or an indictment upon the rest of the league. i think upon reflection, its an indictment upon the rest of the league and it shows that this view of modern times have changed is a load of tripe.

 

[BeinPurplenGreen]

Eddie. Eloquent, exceptional, enlightening, extraordinary.

 

[heypenny]

This is very sad if the allegations are true. Very sad for football, and very sad for Australia (it's getting coverage in the UK).

As much as I desperately want Fremantle to win a premiership (and I probably think about it most nights before I go to bed). At the end of the day it's just a game. Sport is supposed to be fun and entertainment.

The Crows, Bombers and now the Hawks appear to have crossed the line for an extra 'edge'. I know we've made mistakes in the past and we're not perfect, but I just hope we never go there. I'm sure on my death bed I'll still be satisfied watching Andrew Wills soccer goal against the Kangas or Hill's sealer against the Cats if we don't have a cup

 

[Van_Dyke]

 

[Quazar]

Eddie. Eloquent, exceptional, enlightening, extraordinary.

holy f**k man, almost choked up listening to him and kudos for him not doing the same, but jesus wept....when as a species are we gonna throw away this stultifying prejudice and craziness?! Man, Eddie Betts if you EVER see this, as an English man coming to Oz in 2007 and falling in love with the sport known as AFL (albeit Freo and how I wished you'd played in the beloved Purple!) I love ya to bits, you're still one of my fav non-Freo players that I've seen, scrap that just fav players and the way you played the game.

This shit is unbelievable and I can't fathom how much of an everyday burden it would be to have to cop it and live with it. I hope they get the book thrown at them....let it rain justice

EDIT: did choke up and removing tears from my eyes. Can't believe it's 2022 and we're still fighting this scummy battle

 

[Daddoo]

People need to dial back the hysteria and outrage.

Let's hear what Clarkson and Fagan have to say. They have a right to be heard.

We have no idea of the context in which the incidents were said to have occurred or the motivations of those involved or even if they can be proven. All we have are allegations from the ABC, an organisation which has shown of late to be quite amenable to pushing a false narrative if it suits them.

We should hold back our condemnation until all the facts are brought to light.

These are not flippant,offhand comments made about someone's gender, sexuality, or race. There is no conceivable circumstance where anything said could be misinterpreted. "Sorry I separated you from your partner while she was pregnant. I didn't realize that was a big deal." "Oh, and when the other player's partner had a miscarriage..sorry I didn't let him see her. I didn't realize a miscarriage was a big deal."

C'mon man.

The detail provided was incredible and will be easy to backup with emails, texts, and phone call logs.

Remember, Russell Jackson, the author of the article was reporting on a report done BY the Hawthorn club. This is NOT his investigation. This is a club providing a report for itself. Why would this report lie and make up uncorroborated statements and abuse? Furthermore, in what possible world would three indigenous players and partners and family's all make up these stories? Because they're mad at being delisted? Say something bad about the coach, but this would be next level fabrication.

I'm all for saying innocence until proven guilty and getting all the facts, but expressing outrage at this is a perfectly healthy reaction to this and, no offense, but your attitude on this makes me very uncomfortable.