Non-Lions discussion 2021

[briztoon]

Suns have struggled overall but at least there are many AFL savvy people on the GC and they recruited Ablett when he was in his prime so they had some hope.

But both were ideas borne out of too much money from television rights looking for a home to fill up TV time .

The one thing GWS has not built is culture.

GWS are one David Noble and one Chris Fagan away from turning things around, developing a good culture and winning again.

Five years ago we were a rabble, losing players hand over fist, with no culture and a bleak future, in a non footy state where few of the locals care about footy, well not this type of footy.

Get the right people in at the top, and things can turn around for GWS.

 

[martinson]

Don't agree. I reckon getting Abblett was a huge mistake. Only went there for the money, didn't really lead the young guys or build culture. Might have won more games with him but they also became too Abblett centric.

Maybe so . The point I was making was that he was a great player. GWS didn't recruit any great players. Luke Power had had it when he went there.

But overall GWS is just a bad idea for where to put an AFL Club. GC I get even though it's diluted overall support for the code in Qld.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Who is closer to contending for premierships the Giants or Suns?

Remember when the Suns and Giants were going to dominate for years competing against each other in multiple grand finals? good times

Funny thing is a team with just a few high draft picks and a bunch of blue collar players ended up dominating

 

[martinson]

GWS are one David Noble and one Chris Fagan away from turning things around, developing a good culture and winning again.

Five years ago we were a rabble, losing players hand over fist, with no culture and a bleak future, in a non footy state where few of the locals care about footy, well not this type of footy.

Get the right people in at the top, and things can turn around for GWS.

I'm not going to disagree that it's possible but we always had support here in Melbourne and a history with reasonable success.

What do GWS have ? Especially now that the sugar hits from drafts are over.

 

[briztoon]

I'm not going to disagree that it's possible but we always had support here in Melbourne and a history with reasonable success.

What do GWS have ? Especially now that the sugar hits from drafts are over.

Support in Melbourne means sfa for GC and GWS.

This is a National competition now. It’s about building support at home, not in some other state or city.

For a lot of Lions fans, history only goes as far back as 2001. There’s a generation growing up here now that know nothing of Fitzroy or the Bears. We’re a Brisbane team.

*Disclaimer, if you’ve ever paid attention to my posting history, you’ll know I’ve always been a big supporter of the Fitzroy side of f the family.

 

[BangyBangy]

Suns have struggled overall but at least there are many AFL savvy people on the GC and they recruited Ablett when he was in his prime so they had some hope.

But both were ideas borne out of too much money from television rights looking for a home to fill up TV time .

The one thing GWS has not built is culture.

Whoever was in charge of the GWS build did a very good job in my opinion, made the guys building the Gold Coast list look like amateur hour IMO. Callan Ward & Phil Davis have been great leaders, I think the club has shown great culture considering where they have come from.

Made Prelim finals & a grand final.

Seriously, how could you even compare the Suns to what this team has achieved? The suns were a complete cluster ****. The talent recruitment was all cream on top players & none of the cake. The leaders were either Garry Ablett Jnr or Campbell Brown lol. The young kids had a choice, go to church with Gaz or drink their body weight in alcohol at shooters/bedroom/whatever niteclub is the go now lol.

 

[martinson]

Support in Melbourne means sfa for GC and GWS.

This is a National competition now. It’s about building support at home, not in some other state or city.

For a lot of Lions fans, history only goes as far back as 2001. There’s a generation growing up here now that know nothing of Fitzroy or the Bears. We’re a Brisbane team.

*Disclaimer, if you’ve ever paid attention to my posting history, you’ll know I’ve always been a big supporter of the Fitzroy side of f the family.

I just don't see how you build enduring support for the code in Western Sydney.

But I'm happy to be proven wrong.

I don't agree at all about building support totally at home either.

There are many supporters of Hawthorn ,Collingwood, others not residing in Victoria. The clubs need to get more creative with membership options , get people to adopt second teams. The fact is that Queensland and NSW wouldn't have teams without the financial support that mainly emanates from Victoria.

 

[martinson]

Whoever was in charge of the GWS build did a very good job in my opinion, made the guys building the Gold Coast list look like amateur hour IMO. Callan Ward & Phil Davis have been great leaders, I think the club has shown great culture considering where they have come from.

Made Prelim finals & a grand final.

Seriously, how could you even compare the Suns to what this team has achieved? The suns were a complete cluster fu**. The talent recruitment was all cream on top players & none of the cake. The leaders were either Garry Ablett Jnr or Campbell Brown lol. The young kids had a choice, go to church with Gaz or drink their body weight in alcohol at shooters/bedroom/whatever niteclub is the go now lol.

The Suns didn't get half what GWS got when they started up . GWS were meant to be unstoppable. Fitzpatrick demanded it.

I started off by saying you can't blame Cameron if they're failing now because he'd gotten them into a GF. Neither team was a blueprint for ongoing success in my view

What going to church has got to do with it enlighten me

 

[BangyBangy]

The Suns didn't get half what GWS got when they started up . GWS were meant to be unstoppable. Fitzpatrick demanded it.

I started off by saying you can't blame Cameron if they're failing now because he'd gotten them into a GF. Neither team was a blueprint for ongoing success in my view

What going to church has got to do with it enlighten me

Relatability. Think you'll struggle at a club having a leader who won't have a beer or go to a club with the boys. Likewise, I think if you have someone the polar opposite it's not a great situation either.

 

[martinson]

Relatability. Think you'll struggle at a club having a leader who won't have a beer or go to a club with the boys. Likewise, I think if you have someone the polar opposite it's not a great situation either.

Perhaps. But Ablett was far and away the best player in the game when he went there so if they're so stupid as not to realise that and learn from him on the ground then maybe they're just better off at the pub anyway.

Bradman never socialised or went out with the boys. I think his team was called The Invincibles. Apparently they all disliked him.

Leigh Matthews. Another isolating character.

Tommy Hafey. Teetotaller . Disciplinarian

John Kennedy. School teacher, teetotaller. Disciplinarian.

Hodgey a fairly private person.

There are many different types of leaders granted. I don't think being a mate is a prerequisite . What you need is respect .

 

[BangyBangy]

Perhaps. But Ablett was far and away the best player in the game when he went there so if they're so stupid as not to realise that and learn from him on the ground then maybe they're just better off at the pub anyway.

Bradman never socialised or went out with the boys. I think his team was called The Invincibles. Apparently they all disliked him.

Leigh Matthews. Another isolating character.

Tommy Hafey. Teetotaller . Disciplinarian

John Kennedy. School teacher, teetotaller. Disciplinarian.

Hodgey a fairly private person.

There are many different types of leaders granted. I don't think being a mate is a prerequisite . What you need is respect .

What a rubbish post. All the players you have listed there. You don't know the first thing about them personality wise. Apparently no one liked this guy, and apparently this other guy is a fairly private person....Yep, i'll agree Ablett was the best player in the comp, aside from that bit in your post, you're full of rhubarb.

 

[dlanod]

The Suns didn't get half what GWS got when they started up . GWS were meant to be unstoppable. Fitzpatrick demanded it.

Sorry, this bit is laughable.

Both got extensive concessions upon joining. The main differences between the two were designed to make up for GC's Qld zone being leagues better - GWS got the minidraft specifically to compensate for it, which it did (GC's zone concessions generated Dixon, Hickey, etc, and the net result of trading those guys out when they wanted to leave come out to about the net result of the minidraft picks). GWS also got a couple extra years of zone concessions and a second year of uncontracted player recruitment. Both got them bugger all because GC had the first starter advantage - the zone was crap and everyone else had either been extended across that entire period or had gone to the GC because they got in first.

Other than the minidraft the only difference that GWS actually used was an extended list concession (three extra years - for some reason the AFL suspected players would rather stay on the GC than in GWS) that then got stripped ahead of schedule and forced GWS into a fire sale of players a couple of years ago.

The minidraft (cancelling out a Qld-based zone) and longer larger lists doesn't equal double GC's concessions, nor anything like making it unstoppable. GWS put in a culture of winning with their recruitments. GC put in a culture of $$$. The former lasted longer, the latter blew up because players could get $$$ closer to home easily enough.

 

[martinson]

You said you'll struggle as a club with a leader who won't have a beer or go out to a club with the boys.

I think this is demonstrably false.

Footy and sport in general is full of great leaders who never did that. Or did it to a very limited extent. Even some who openly disapproved.

 

[martinson]

Sorry, this bit is laughable.

Both got extensive concessions upon joining. The main differences between the two were designed to make up for GC's Qld zone being leagues better - GWS got the minidraft specifically to compensate for it, which it did (GC's zone concessions generated Dixon, Hickey, etc, and the net result of trading those guys out when they wanted to leave come out to about the net result of the minidraft picks). GWS also got a couple extra years of zone concessions and a second year of uncontracted player recruitment. Both got them bugger all because GC had the first starter advantage - the zone was crap and everyone else had either been extended across that entire period or had gone to the GC because they got in first.

Other than the minidraft the only difference that GWS actually used was an extended list concession (three extra years - for some reason the AFL suspected players would rather stay on the GC than in GWS) that then got stripped ahead of schedule and forced GWS into a fire sale of players a couple of years ago.

The minidraft (cancelling out a Qld-based zone) and longer larger lists doesn't equal double GC's concessions, nor anything like making it unstoppable. GWS put in a culture of winning with their recruitments. GC put in a culture of $$$. The former lasted longer, the latter blew up because players could get $$$ closer to home easily enough.

I didn't make myself exactly clear. The main difference is the impactful picks GWS got via the minidraft. Plus Ablett vs Ward Davis Palmer and Scully as uncontracted player signings. In 2011 the Giants only left Longer Wingard and Aish on the table. Plus pre listed 17 year olds in Cameron, Shiel, Wilson and Treloar. The Suns got far less for high profile departures like Dixon ,Bennel and Caddy. At least GWS got Shaw for Adams and some good picks for Tyson.

Overall the admin support for GWS was extensive whereas Bluey was left to do it mostly on his own at the GC. In my view. Overall I don't think the player pool GWS had access to is comparable to the GC

 

[jackess]

The Reid suspension seems a bit over the top. Can’t expect players to ignore the footy to minimise contact with opposition players.

 

[BuntonRules]

The Reid suspension seems a bit over the top. Can’t expect players to ignore the footy to minimise contact with opposition players.

The rules are set in concrete now. It is the result - not the intention. You make contact with the head, and there are negative consequences, you are gone. A necessity in the brave new world.

 

[jackess]

The rules are set in concrete now. It is the result - not the intention. You make contact with the head, and there are negative consequences, you are gone. A necessity in the brave new world.

Seems harsh if you don’t initiate contact.

 

[briztoon]

Freo will appeal and he’ll get off.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Freo will appeal and he’ll get off.

You mean Giants by any chance

 

[jackess]

Freo will appeal and he’ll get off.

Harsh way to treat their captain

 

[briztoon]

You mean Giants by any chance

Yeah.

 

[BuntonRules]

Seems harsh if you don’t initiate contact.

It is harsh, but it is the reality.

 

[Section 5]

Whoever was in charge of the GWS build did a very good job in my opinion, made the guys building the Gold Coast list look like amateur hour IMO. Callan Ward & Phil Davis have been great leaders, I think the club has shown great culture considering where they have come from.

Made Prelim finals & a grand final.

Seriously, how could you even compare the Suns to what this team has achieved? The suns were a complete cluster fu**. The talent recruitment was all cream on top players & none of the cake. The leaders were either Garry Ablett Jnr or Campbell Brown lol. The young kids had a choice, go to church with Gaz or drink their body weight in alcohol at shooters/bedroom/whatever niteclub is the go now lol.

You forgot Karmichael Hunt and his influence on Harley Bennell

 

[patfullfankezz]

Channel 7 cameras at the North/Dogs game. I mean, I know you're happy the fans are back, but do we need a fan cam while we're reviewing a goal?

 

[jackess]

Not fair playing the Bulldogs coming off a bye this week