North on the Brink of financial disaster - The Age

[krisholio14]

Re: North on the Brink

I can recall Geelong being in a similar mess, and Geelong Council giving away free memberships to anyone who moved to Geelong

Way to go getting defensive.

First, you're assuming I think Geelong is never going to find itself in strife again. While we are the strongest we've ever been on and off the field right at the moment, all it takes is some complacency and in fighting and we're right back in the ruck. That goes for most clubs too, including yours.

Second, you guys have done well to get yourselves into a stronger position, and that's been aided by some good recent on field performances. Problem for you guys is you have a history of infighting off field, and it wouldn't take much of that if it bobbed up again, and a fall to the bottom reaches of the ladder for you guys to be battling again.

But at least you guys have a big geographical region you can tap into. Something you've done more of since you changed your name, and something which has at least given you a foundation to build on for the future. Every other club that has struggled in the last decade at least has a large and/or apathetic supporter base to rally. North have nothing of the sort in either department. It's their greatest blessing and greatest curse.

 

[Demonheart]

Re: North on the Brink

The only real difference is that Stynes has been shaking the tins and has a lot of emotional support behind him because of his condition.

Wow, just wow. I didn't realise you were such a revolting person.

 

[Portia]

Re: North on the Brink

Whats revolting about that?

Are you saying that Jim Stynes does not have a lot of emotional public support behind him because of his condition?

Are you saying that having Jim Stynes calling for club unity, with his condition and public sympathy, does not make it more difficult for factions within the MFC to openly work against each other?

Are you saying that companies and individuals looking for positively perceived public figures to attach themselves to, do not now see Jim Stynes-related activities as valuable marketing opportunities?

 

[Handsome.B.Wonderful]

Re: North on the Brink

Wow, just wow. I didn't realise you were such a revolting person.

Oh please.

 

[Royal Flush]

Re: North on the Brink

for god sake tell me something i dont know. We are on the brink, have been on the brink and will always be a small club. so what? we will still be around.
end thread.

 

[KennyHunter9]

Re: North on the Brink

The problem: the AFL is more interested in TV and gate attendances than creating a fair draw.

The solution: give NM, Melbourne, WB (and whoever else has been missing out) more Friday and Saturday night prime time games. Let them stand play fairly by using this better market position to generate membership and audiences. Right now, the draw ties one hand behind their back and tries to even things up with a special distribution fund. Then morons from The Age try to pretend like these funds are not deserved or may be subject to removal. Idiots.

It's such an obvious solution, you may ask why isn't it done?

The reason is a flawed incentive scheme whereby Vlad's salary and bonus are determined largely on attendances and the TV rights deal. So he has a peverse incentive to maximise these results and trade off fairness. So clubs like Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, WCE, Adelaide will always do well.

Vlad has traded off other things too: like exposure of the game in Sydney, like live telecasts, like betting sponsors ... all to maximise TV rights so he can maximise his salary and bonus. Just look at how his salary has risen over the last 6-7 years and his justification for it.

It's time the AFL Commission set some priorities, and prioritised things like player welfare, game exposure, draw integrity etc ahead of TV rights.

All of this debate would be unnecessary. NM could determine, without fear or favour whether it is a viable entity.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Re: North on the Brink

The problem: the AFL is more interested in TV and gate attendances than creating a fair draw.

The solution: give NM, Melbourne, WB (and whoever else has been missing out) more Friday and Saturday night prime time games. Let them stand play fairly by using this better market position to generate membership and audiences. Right now, the draw ties one hand behind their back and tries to even things up with a special distribution fund. Then morons from The Age try to pretend like these funds are not deserved or may be subject to removal. Idiots.

It's such an obvious solution, you may ask why isn't it done?

The reason is a flawed incentive scheme whereby Vlad's salary and bonus are determined largely on attendances and the TV rights deal. So he has a peverse incentive to maximise these results and trade off fairness. So clubs like Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, WCE, Adelaide will always do well.

Vlad has traded off other things too: like exposure of the game in Sydney, like live telecasts, like betting sponsors ... all to maximise TV rights so he can maximise his salary and bonus. Just look at how his salary has risen over the last 6-7 years and his justification for it.

It's time the AFL Commission set some priorities, and prioritised things like player welfare, game exposure, draw integrity etc ahead of TV rights.

All of this debate would be unnecessary. NM could determine, without fear or favour whether it is a viable entity.

what a load of tosh. The networks pay enormous sums of money to the league, and need a return; hence the scheduling.

Maybe we should go back to being a provincial sport and forgo the TV rights money for "integrity"?

You're living in fantasy land

 

[Portia]

Re: North on the Brink

Well here's a question, what have you noticed is better about the game since the last TV rights deal? How has your experience as a watcher of football improved?

The league is making more money, but does it need to be? Where is the value showing in selling off all these things that compromise the league?

 

[Lach72]

Re: North on the Brink

what a load of tosh. The networks pay enormous sums of money to the league, and need a return; hence the scheduling.

Maybe we should go back to being a provincial sport and forgo the TV rights money for "integrity"?

You're living in fantasy land

Agreed. I hate this idea that fans don't turn up because it's Sunday afternoon. They don't care enough to turn up. Same goes for games against freo an port

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Re: North on the Brink

Well here's a question, what have you noticed is better about the game since the last TV rights deal? How has your experience as a watcher of football improved?

The league is making more money, but does it need to be? Where is the value showing in selling off all these things that compromise the league?

strange from a Port supporter - I'm guessing the money from TV is probably pretty crucial in the upkeep of your club.

I'm not sure you can qualify the importance of TV revenue by how my experience as a viewer has improved. It's a competitive market place, and AFL benefits enormously from being the big dog

 

[Frank Steen]

Re: North on the Brink

Whats revolting about that?

Are you saying that Jim Stynes does not have a lot of emotional public support behind him because of his condition?

Are you saying that having Jim Stynes calling for club unity, with his condition and public sympathy, does not make it more difficult for factions within the MFC to openly work against each other?

Are you saying that companies and individuals looking for positively perceived public figures to attach themselves to, do not now see Jim Stynes-related activities as valuable marketing opportunities?

Jim Stynes has had a lot of public support behind him for years and years, mainly through his charity work with the Reach Foundation (and through his charity work he was Victorian of the year in 2003 and Melburnian of the year in 2010). So Jim's public profile was huge well before his illness. And It's fair to say that that work with Reach made him arguably as well known to non football followers as just about any former player.
And remember, Jim became president of the Melbourne Football Club some time prior to his illness and he and his board were well on the way to placing the club on an even keel prior to the illness.
I'm sure if Jim not become ill his efforts would have given the Melbourne Football Club the same positive results (and without the anguish to his family and friends).
You mention factions at the MFC working against each other - what factions?
I've not heard of any!
As far as companies attaching themselves to the MFC because of Jim's positive public profile then yep there probably are "valuable marketing opportunities" to be had.

 

[hotpie]

Re: North on the Brink

Well here's a question, what have you noticed is better about the game since the last TV rights deal? How has your experience as a watcher of football improved??

We dont have to watch as many crap games involving unpopular teams like Port and North on FTA any more. Its much better.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Re: North on the Brink

I have no idea what's going on... I wouldn't mind someone coming out and telling us the real story... I'm just worried about my club

I think this sums it up well. If I was in this situation with Collingwood I would be worried and I would just want to know the full story and would be looking for some security in ensuring my club survives. I really hope it is sensationalism as no one wants to see the Kangas go or even have to battle like they are. It wouldn't be the same without the Kangas. Stay strong Roos fans.

 

[ROORAGE]

Re: North on the Brink

The problem: the AFL is more interested in TV and gate attendances than creating a fair draw.

The solution: give NM, Melbourne, WB (and whoever else has been missing out) more Friday and Saturday night prime time games. Let them stand play fairly by using this better market position to generate membership and audiences. Right now, the draw ties one hand behind their back and tries to even things up with a special distribution fund. Then morons from The Age try to pretend like these funds are not deserved or may be subject to removal. Idiots.

It's such an obvious solution, you may ask why isn't it done?

The reason is a flawed incentive scheme whereby Vlad's salary and bonus are determined largely on attendances and the TV rights deal. So he has a peverse incentive to maximise these results and trade off fairness. So clubs like Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, WCE, Adelaide will always do well.

Vlad has traded off other things too: like exposure of the game in Sydney, like live telecasts, like betting sponsors ... all to maximise TV rights so he can maximise his salary and bonus. Just look at how his salary has risen over the last 6-7 years and his justification for it.

It's time the AFL Commission set some priorities, and prioritised things like player welfare, game exposure, draw integrity etc ahead of TV rights.

All of this debate would be unnecessary. NM could determine, without fear or favour whether it is a viable entity.

Hit the nail on the head KennyHunter.
Shame a lot of others can't make room for rational thought. This is EXACTLY why we're being shafted, year after year.
So where's the INTEGRITY in $$ over equality?
Demetriou simply has to go. Time after time he puts ego and self interest ahead of the actual 'sport' he is employed to govern.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Re: North on the Brink

Hit the nail on the head KennyHunter.
Shame a lot of others can't make room for rational thought. This is EXACTLY why we're being shafted, year after year.
So where's the INTEGRITY in $$ over equality?
Demetriou simply has to go. Time after time he puts ego and self interest ahead of the actual 'sport' he is employed to govern.

Hang on - if you want it to be fair - let every club have their own tv rights and sell them off individually

You guys would be bankrupt in 6 months

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Re: North on the Brink

Whats revolting about that?

Are you saying that Jim Stynes does not have a lot of emotional public support behind him because of his condition?

Are you saying that having Jim Stynes calling for club unity, with his condition and public sympathy, does not make it more difficult for factions within the MFC to openly work against each other?

Are you saying that companies and individuals looking for positively perceived public figures to attach themselves to, do not now see Jim Stynes-related activities as valuable marketing opportunities?

revolting wasn't the right wording

but it certainly was a comment, i think, that was made in bad taste

stynes achieved all those things, by being jim stynes... a great leader

NOT because of his condition in any way, shape or form

if a business proposition was put to you by someone who had stynes' illness, but it didn't suit you... would that force you to accept it?

it really belittles all the hard work stynes has put in to the MFC, simply using a cop out 'but it's easier for him to do this, because people are sympathetic about his illness'

jim stynes marketability stems from the fact that one, he was a great footballer

secondly, he does a lot of charity work and has been recognised with a victorian of the year award

and thirdly, that he is the president of the oldest afl club

no, demonheart was right

that is a revolting way of thinking

 

[jacko57]

Re: North on the Brink

I asked the same question in another thread and was shouted down, well now the revelation is they tried to organise 8 games in tassie per season, that sounds like an attempt to relocate by the pres and eug.

they are using the old shell trick

Relocation by stealth, im sure all the north supporters are happy about the keep north at north.

I guess Launceston iis in NORTH tassie.

Don't have time to respond to EVERY uninformed comment here, but i can't let this one go.

The club was willing to discuss up to 8 games in Tassie, on the condition that relocation was NOT part of the deal. This non-negotiable point was not what the Tassie government wanted, so they went back to Hawthorn and renewed the deal with them.

 

[Rob]

Re: North on the Brink

The problem: the AFL is more interested in TV and gate attendances than creating a fair draw.

The solution: give NM, Melbourne, WB (and whoever else has been missing out) more Friday and Saturday night prime time games. Let them stand play fairly by using this better market position to generate membership and audiences. Right now, the draw ties one hand behind their back and tries to even things up with a special distribution fund. Then morons from The Age try to pretend like these funds are not deserved or may be subject to removal. Idiots.

I reckon you should actually look at the draw instead of believing the bullshit posted on bigfooty.

In 2011, the Bulldogs and Melbourne are getting above the average number of Friday night games. Above average. In 2010, the Bulldogs got a shitload of FN games. They in particular have been given a dream draw in recent times, yet for some reason receive the most in ASD handouts, even more than North. That should be enough evidence for anyone that ASD funding has nothing to do with the draw.

You'll find if they actually allocated ASD funding on the basis of a good or bad draw, then some of the recipients would be a few of the richest clubs in the league. Have a look at West Coast's draw. If a Victorian club got that then they'd have something to cry about.

 

[vonn]

Re: North on the Brink

Hit the nail on the head KennyHunter.
Shame a lot of others can't make room for rational thought. This is EXACTLY why we're being shafted, year after year.
So where's the INTEGRITY in $$ over equality?
Demetriou simply has to go. Time after time he puts ego and self interest ahead of the actual 'sport' he is employed to govern.

Oh please. Spare me.

Everyone is either stupid or ignorant if they don't see the AFL as being a business first and foremost. They're not going to give a club who is barely breaking even prime-time. What successful business has anyone heard of that wants to lower their profit?

 

[jacko57]

Re: North on the Brink

Weird seeing that it's written by an award winning business writer (Melbourne Press Club Quill Award) who is an experienced columnist for the age business section.

I agree, it is weird. You would expect that he would have the nous to interpret the figures more accurately and fairly than this morning's grossly distorted beat-up. You would also expect him to have the professional courtesy to discuss the facts with Brayshaw or Arocca before going to print.

If you can't attribute this distorted hatchet job to incompetence on Hawthorne's part, you have to wonder whose agenda he is pursuing.

 

[jacko57]

Re: North on the Brink

Wow, this makes for interesting (sometimes depressing, sometimes infuriating) reading.

Comments from neutrals fall into one of 3 categories :

* I hate North, can't wait to see them die
* I have a lot of respect for North, hope they get through this and I reckon they will
* Gee, I didn't realise how bad things were at North til I read The Age today ; I hope they survive, but I don't think they can

I think the last group (probably the majority) are the target audience for The Age's current campaign to denigrate North at every opportunity.

For the record : I don't doubt that North faces major challenges, Brayshaw & Arocca have said as much regularly, and again last night. But the situation is nowhere near as fatal as The Age wants people to believe.

(The first group described above are a very small, if vocal, minority. I doubt they're the target audience for a product that is sold to people who can read).

 

[John Dorian]

Re: North on the Brink

It's easy for opposition supporters to kick us down, then have a go at us for defending our club.

Can't we just all accept that even though we don't generate much revenue, support or members compared to other clubs, we are here to stay.

 

[Demonheart]

Re: North on the Brink

revolting wasn't the right wording

but it certainly was a comment, i think, that was made in bad taste

stynes achieved all those things, by being jim stynes... a great leader

NOT because of his condition in any way, shape or form

if a business proposition was put to you by someone who had stynes' illness, but it didn't suit you... would that force you to accept it?

it really belittles all the hard work stynes has put in to the MFC, simply using a cop out 'but it's easier for him to do this, because people are sympathetic about his illness'

jim stynes marketability stems from the fact that one, he was a great footballer

secondly, he does a lot of charity work and has been recognised with a victorian of the year award

and thirdly, that he is the president of the oldest afl club

no, demonheart was right

that is a revolting way of thinking

Too right, revolting is exactly the right term, having Porthos arguing against it just reinforces my opinion.

Really, if people can't work out what's wrong with a comment like that they'll never be able to understand, it's clearly beyong them and no amount of reasoning will help.

Probably best to let them be ignorant...and revolting

 

[Demonheart]

Re: North on the Brink

For years Melbourne had the attitude tha we were constantly been shafted by the AFL, poor draw and victim mentality. Well, guess what, with that attitude we just went further and further into debt. It wasn't until Stynes, Schwab, Connolly and co got together and developed a strategic business plan to get the club out of the huge hole they were in.
They didn't rely on a handful of rich 'whiteknights' to bail them out, they engaged the whole membership. They successfully redeveloped the 'brand'
We aren't there yet but over the last three years they've done a wonderful job.

The Roos can do this as well, but they have to be united. They have to all work together. C'mon Roos, we know you can do it, shove it up the arseholes who want to see you die.

 

[clobba]

Re: North on the Brink

Hit the nail on the head KennyHunter.
Shame a lot of others can't make room for rational thought. This is EXACTLY why we're being shafted, year after year.
So where's the INTEGRITY in $$ over equality?
Demetriou simply has to go. Time after time he puts ego and self interest ahead of the actual 'sport' he is employed to govern.

I have only ever gone out of my way to watch Nth Melb. once, which was the Crows vs Roo's with a certain ******** against his old team otherwise I might watch 3 or 4 games a year (I guess that actually isnt too bad considering how often you get FTA games tho).
So no I dont want more of you on TV, I just feel nothing either like or dislike for you guys to motivate me.

(feel free to bag my club for blandness, horrible style or 'culture' <lmfao> if anyone takes it personally)