North on the Brink of financial disaster - The Age

[dutchy12]

Re: North on the Brink

dear north apologists.

you frequently utter 'what about footscray, richmond, melbourne, carlton etc etc'. the point is north are the one who have had considerable success in the recent past and despite that, still cant get the numbers to work. the other clubs you mentioned are only in this predicament due to lack of success - success for them and their money troubles are over. hence the AFL dont give them grief. with any success comes cash. and the sydney argument is done to death - its the AFL's investment in a one team town larger than melbourne. makes sense for the future.

for north (one team in a 9 team town) those money troubles never end.

Excellent post.

The way some North's posters post about Caroline Wilson is treading a fine line between comical, obsessive and crazy.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Re: North on the Brink

$2749 in the bank? That's diabolical.

If I personally only had that much money in the bank, I would be worried. And this is a football club ffs. How does it even get to that stage?

 

[A Living God]

Re: North on the Brink

So, because you auditors qualify their audit report every year, you reckon a qualified audit report is no big deal ...

Surely somebody of your experience should be to able to recognise the difference between a qualified audit report and an emphasis of matter.

 

[Macca18]

Re: North on the Brink

dear north apologists.

you frequently utter 'what about footscray, richmond, melbourne, carlton etc etc'. the point is north are the one who have had considerable success in the recent past and despite that, still cant get the numbers to work. the other clubs you mentioned are only in this predicament due to lack of success - success for them and their money troubles are over. hence the AFL dont give them grief. with any success comes cash. and the sydney argument is done to death - its the AFL's investment in a one team town larger than melbourne. makes sense for the future.

for north (one team in a 9 team town) those money troubles never end.

Very nicely put.

The decision to knock back the Gold Coast offer will be a pivotal one in the history of North. Having some form of club Vs having no club at all in the medium term future - yeah, tough decision...

 

[Jade]

Re: North on the Brink



I feel sorry for 99% of North fans on this one. Let's face it, most people don't give a toss what happens behind the scenes - they just wanna go see the team play every week.

The club is in absolute dire circumstances, and is kept alive only by the AFL. For those people critical of how the AFL goes about business (ie. the expansion into GC and GWS), think of how many opportunities it has offered North.

If the question is asked 100 times at AFL HQ what to do with North, and 99 times they elect to support them, it'll only take that one time to end the club as an AFL team.

Eventually, someone has got to put the hand up and acknowledge that a third WA team or a Tassie team will be a better option.

At the time the GC offer was refused I remember thinking that the club was being stubborn for the sake of it. Simply wanting to remain a Melbourne club and declaring that intent wasn't going to make it happen.

It would seem there are three potential conclusions:

1) The club attracts a new supporter base, large enough to sustain the club in its existing form.

2) The AFL offers another relocation option, this time accepted.

3) North Melbourne ceases to be.

It only remains to be seen which it will be.

 

[AngelEyes]

Re: North on the Brink

The AFL will want 18 teams and 9 games a week for the next TV deal.

They'll bail them out.

Despite all my comments about North in the past, I am genuinely upset for the Kangaroos at the moment. I think this is the start of the long and painful nail in the coffin.

If you look at what the AFL's goals have been and where they see the future of the AFL and factor in that the AFL can be savage if it wants, then you have to seriously question whether the AFL would bail North out this time.

We saw the savage attempt to get the Roos to the Gold Coast and the AFL obviously believes Tasmania is next in line to get an AFL team and have publicly stated this. Melbourne does have too many teams and expansion to be a true national competition is a must in the AFL's eyes. We keep hearing repeated comments about dropping competitive balance funding in 2012 and despite what North fans may say, this is possibly a savage attempt to bankrupt a club like them.

Its also funny how the Tassie Government all of a sudden dropped their North playing 7 games in Tassie plan. Perhaps they knew more about North's financial state and didn't want to prop them up. Lets face it, Tassie would benefit enormously out of a North bankruptcy as they would likely be the beneficiary of a new team in order to have an even number of teams.

I think there is far more going on and while a lot of it is purely speculation, I suspect that the forces are starting to conspire against North and they are going to be pushed to the brink. I don't know whether its bankruptcy or relocation to Tassie but I can't see the Kangaroos surviving in their current form in five years time. It's sad and people shouldn't be gloating in this thread.

 

[MickyG]

Re: North on the Brink

$26 million in revenue and a $200k profit. They'll be fine.

Move a few matches to Ballarat and/or a few to Hobart (which I think will happen) and they'll be in a strong position.

The Ethihad Stadium deal and fixturing has hurt them more than any other club (?) so they get the $1.4million in compensation - fair enough.

I've previously bagged the AFL for the GWS expansion as I think that club will require huge amounts of financial support for a very long time. It made more sense to me to have a third team in Perth. I've also said there's too many clubs in Melbourne, North have the lowest supporter base in Melbourne so they should probably move to Perth. I've changed my mind (except for the GWS losses).

NB Average attendance for North home games is close to the Swans.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Re: North on the Brink

Every year the auditors uncertainty over North as a going concern and will continue to do so with us and all other clubs that have debt.

Yup, this clause has been in Carlton's report for the best part of a decade. We continue to grow our revenue and pump it back into the club and facilities while carrying and maintaining our debt, so the clause will remain.

 

[DaVe86]

Re: North on the Brink

You hate having to see a traditional vic club like North Melbourne suffer...but you have to wonder how it is going to survive.

The AFL wants a national competition. It's hard to see that happening without Victorian teams folding.

The AFL offered North its lifeline by moving to GC and it was knocked back. That decision was based on patriotism and loyalty...and for a few years its looked like the corner was turning. However, when all that patriotism wears off, the club has to survive as a going concern on its own 2 feet. It can't keep relying on passion from a supporter base that simply doesn't exist.


I hope the same thing doesn't happen to Melbourne. At the moment, Stynes has been able to rally a lot of support and get funding. Everyone is passionate and onboard. But once all that passion dies off and the fundraising stops...will those supporters stay?? Let's hope so.




As much of a traditionalist as I am...i am also a realist. I can't see 10 Victorian clubs surviving for much longer. I can't see the AFL wanting 10 Victorian clubs either. We want to fill the MCG...not half fill it. Merging teams may have some short term repurcusions...but eventually the fans will come back and teams will have more supporters as there are less options.

In 20 years, I don't see 10 Vic teams in the competition.

 

[telsor]

Re: North on the Brink

yes you do. You hear it every year. We've heard it about Richmond many times.

Difference is, when Richmond gets in trouble, it's members bail it out. North just keeps asking for more money from the AFL.

Essentially what they are saying is without the AFL money - compensation for shitty draw, timeslots etc - we'd be screwed. Der.

But the AFL knows if they were to withdraw that money they'd face legal challenge.

I'd love to see that court case.

North's Lawyers: The AFL took away our ASD, but didn't fix our draw, therefore we want compensation.

AFL Lawyers: The AFL has always maintained that the ASD has always been for clubs in need of financial assistance and nothing to do with the draw, so there is no relationship.

North's lawyers: But some North fans on bigfooty decided it was compensation for the AFL shafting us with the draw, and we prefer that answer to admitting our own weakness and inability to draw a crowd.

<Judge looks at them mockingly>

AFL Lawyers: We can show other teams that had similarly bad draws and didn't get compensation, and that the clubs that did get it are all financially struggling.

North lawyer's: Yeah, but...but...umm... Caroline Wilson says nasty things about us too...It's all a big conspiracy.

Judge: Get out.


--------

nb. Personaly I'd much prefer North works through it's problems and stays as is, but the fans who seem to only be willing to see sunshine and roses, while claiming any negative comments are all part of some big conspiracy drive me crazy.

North has MAJOR problems, the current situation is not doing enough to resolve them, and the sooner North fans realise that, he better their chances of resolving them.

 

[Skids]

Re: North on the Brink

This is Caro beat up revenge piece. Its a sad day when a once fine paper like The Age is used to further one journalists personal obsession. She even admitted to having such an obsession earlier this week.

Did she? I remember her writing something like 'North fans might consider me obsessed about...' which is no admission of having an obsession just an admission that North fans might believe she's obsessed.

On topic. I'm worried for North. Don't want to see them go, but they just keep seeming to be in trouble. It can't all be biased media reports can it? I think they should ditch JB. But that's because I don't like his persona in the media. Too glib and lightweight. Makes Billy Brownless seem almost academic. Poor man's Eddie as someone has already pointed out.

 

[Beth]

Re: North on the Brink

get serious BETH - no one here, absolutely, wants north to go under. but to consistently deny they are in trouble, to turn down opportunities to get out of trouble with deals that are a gift is just insanity. and the supporters are given spin to promote & continue the tenure of the board.

stop making mistakes. get it right before it is too late. developing the eyesore that is arden st was one of them.

I disagree there are a few here hanging out to dance on their grave. Luckily more come at the issue sensibly like yourself. I'll admit I'm just really frustrated with the AFL.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Re: North on the Brink

Did she? I remember her writing something like 'North fans might consider me obsessed about...' which is no admission of having an obsession just an admission that North fans might believe she's obsessed.

On topic. I'm worried for North. Don't want to see them go, but they just keep seeming to be in trouble. It can't all be biased media reports can it? I think they should ditch JB. But that's because I don't like his persona in the media. Too glib and lightweight. Makes Billy Brownless seem almost academic. Poor man's Eddie as someone has already pointed out.

Surely that is exactly what an obsessed person would say!!! She has consistently denigrated our club for the last ten years. She pumped to Gold Coast option as a done deal - someone on our Board did an empircal study of all her articles over the last five years - we were bagged much more than any other Club. **** You I say

 

[Tas]

Re: North on the Brink

It is not uncommon, the figure shows the overdraft facility at the end of October, it is the period from between September to December where clubs are not generating a lot of revenue and rely more on things like overdraft facilities until AFL distributions and membership revenue starts to come in.

We actually reduced our liabilities by some $800k from 2009 to 2010, our net position actually improved, as you would expect with a club that made a profit.

This article is typical of someone who has not even a basic understanding of accounting who has read one line in the financial report, ie, typical of BF trolls, laughable that it is a reporter.

 

[zero]

Re: North on the Brink

lol.

"uncertainty about ability to service debts", age article gets written, couple of BF threads deathriding north, SLF and tas turn up, north continues on, we do it all again next year.

bigfooty, your making me feel old.

 

[Skids]

Re: North on the Brink

Surely that is exactly what an obsessed person would say!!! She has consistently denigrated our club for the last ten years. She pumped to Gold Coast option as a done deal - someone on our Board did an empircal study of all her articles over the last five years - we were bagged much more than any other Club. **** You I say

**** me? But we've not even met. Do you like long walks on the beach at sunset? What kind of food are you partial too? This is so sudden, I might swoon....


Maybe an obsessed person would say that, but it's still not an admission of obsession. That's all I was pointing out.

I wouldn't take it personally, she's a media hack who needs to have fresh 'news' regularly. Well, all reporters do, lest they no longer be employed. If it were Essendon, and it was last year, she'd be into them all the time. The fact that empirically North cop a lot of shit isn't proof that people are out to get North because they're North. It could be that North cop a lot of shit because North are struggling and it's easy to write a story about a struggling club and not a club that's going well. Correlation isn't causation.

The media thrives on tragedy, hard luck, and destruction. This is because we don't want to know about things going well, only about things going bad. We love to read reports about crime being up, not about this being the safest place in the world (or one of the safest places in the world statistically). It's human nature.

 

[AngelEyes]

Re: North on the Brink

It is not uncommon, the figure shows the overdraft facility at the end of October, it is the period from between September to December where clubs are not generating a lot of revenue and rely more on things like overdraft facilities until AFL distributions and membership revenue starts to come in.

We actually reduced our liabilities by some $800k from 2009 to 2010, our net position actually improved, as you would expect with a club that made a profit.

This article is typical of someone who has not even a basic understanding of accounting who has read one line in the financial report, ie, typical of BF trolls, laughable that it is a reporter.

Most clubs have overdrafts so you are correct. Borrowing however increased significantly.


From an accounting perspective, I think you are right that North made a profit and increased the member's equity. However, my concern is that Arden Street leasehold improvements are listed as an Asset at $15m. However, is it realistic that the Kangaroos ever sell this? It would be very unlikely that the Kangaroos could transfer those assets even if it wanted to so its possible to suggest (like all football clubs) that it's assets may be overstated. Obviously, you can't make that judgement without knowing the full details but its concerning as assets are somewhat useless if you can't convert them to cash if needed. Perhaps the leasehold is also not transferable? I don't know the answers and neither does probably anybody on here.

The other thing that concerns me is the current ratio. That is current assets over current liabilities. Current ratio significantly worsened during the year suggesting that cash flow will be a more significant issue than last year. These two things combined make me think that cash flow is going to be the killer as North don't have the cash to fund their operations as well as last year. There is no point having higher members equity if you can't use it and it would seem that the Kangaroos will be asset rich and cash poor.

They may need to rely on short term cash injections which is difficult.

 

[fddf]

Re: North on the Brink

I think this was inevitable for a long time now. The AFL will push towards a more national competition in the future so you would think that the lesser stable Victorian clubs will feel the pinch, North being the most at risk of the lot. Long term, it is hard to see them not relocating or merging if they want to stay in this competition.

 

[Ernie Eclectus]

Re: North on the Brink

If I was a North supporter I would start planning for a merger right now. I know everyone is going to go crazy at me and I'll probably get banned again but what other choice does North have?

The way I see it, if North does not merge, the AFL is going to force them to relocate to Tassie. North supporters need to ask themselves what they would prefer. The fight to stay in Melbourne is a fight they can never win unless they find someone who is mega rich and donates $50 million to the club.

I admire North as a club for their tenacity but the reallity is that 10 clubs can not survive in Victoria. Eight clubs might survive in Victoria, but really, the ideal number of clubs in Victoria is 6. If there were 6 clubs in Victoria I could honestly say that they would all thrive.

 

[Contra Mundum]

Re: North on the Brink

**** me? But we've not even met. Do you like long walks on the beach at sunset? What kind of food are you partial too? This is so sudden, I might swoon....


Maybe an obsessed person would say that, but it's still not an admission of obsession. That's all I was pointing out.

I wouldn't take it personally, she's a media hack who needs to have fresh 'news' regularly. Well, all reporters do, lest they no longer be employed. If it were Essendon, and it was last year, she'd be into them all the time. The fact that empirically North cop a lot of shit isn't proof that people are out to get North because they're North. It could be that North cop a lot of shit because North are struggling and it's easy to write a story about a struggling club and not a club that's going well. Correlation isn't causation.

The media thrives on tragedy, hard luck, and destruction. This is because we don't want to know about things going well, only about things going bad. We love to read reports about crime being up, not about this being the safest place in the world (or one of the safest places in the world statistically). It's human nature.

Sorry I was meaning **** You to Caro [she is obsessed]

 

[Skids]

Re: North on the Brink

Sorry I was meaning **** You to Caro [she is obsessed]

No dramas. I thought you were, but I couldn't resist the temptation to have a joke.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Re: North on the Brink

Noone wants to see North Melbourne die, they only want to see them do something for themselves rather then playing the blame game.

Every club has been in financial ruin, and apart from carlton, all have got back on their feet without AFL help.

You complain about a bad draw with bad timeslots, yet Hawthorn and Melbourne recieve worse fixtures on a yearly basis, yet recieve a portion of what North recieves from the CBF

With two new teams coming into the comp, the Roos cant expect to be the little child anymore, they cant expect favortism and a free ride.



And on a side note, im only 20, yet have more money then the NMFC, despite having my own expenses which take about half my weekly wage (not including additional expenses)

maybe i should take over their admin?

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Re: North on the Brink

Noone wants to see North Melbourne die, they only want to see them do something for themselves rather then playing the blame game.

Every club has been in financial ruin, and apart from carlton, all have got back on their feet without AFL help.

You complain about a bad draw with bad timeslots, yet Hawthorn and Melbourne recieve worse fixtures on a yearly basis, yet recieve a portion of what North recieves from the CBF

With two new teams coming into the comp, the Roos cant expect to be the little child anymore, they cant expect favortism and a free ride.



And on a side note, im only 20, yet have more money then the NMFC, despite having my own expenses which take about half my weekly wage (not including additional expenses)

maybe i should take over their admin?

So you mean that ten days later you had over $1 million in your account?

http://www.kangaroos.com.au/latestnews/newsarticle/tabid/4912/newsid/107956/default.aspx

 

[Heisenberg_]

Re: North on the Brink

It defies logic that the AFL presses on with GWS and GC while North is hemorrhaging. This obviously hasn't happened overnight.

No it doesn't at all, I really admire North and their small but passionate supporter base but the GC and GWS are far more important for the AFLs future then NM could ever be.

 

[SweetLeftFoot]

Re: North on the Brink

And on a side note, im only 20, yet have more money then the NMFC, despite having my own expenses which take about half my weekly wage (not including additional expenses)

maybe i should take over their admin?

Really? Did you just build yourself a $15m house? You have 38 servants that you pay $5m a year?

This is a hit piece by C.Wilson she doesn't even have the guts to put her name against.