Oppo Camp Oliver Henry (Traded to Geelong 2022)

[Jen2310]

Dumb and Dumber have there Input

‘What’s the other option?’: Debate erupts over Pies’ $3m bid as great says young gun is ‘not ready’

‘What’s the other option?’: Debate erupts over Pies’ $3m bid as great says young gun is ‘not ready’

www.foxsports.com.au

King was quite insightful. I liked what he had to say.

 

[Jonno94]

Who comes out for this to happen?

WHE?

McCreery for me, just doesn't do enough and who need a little bit of forward pressure if they're just kicking goals.

 

[Anzacday]

McCreery for me, just doesn't do enough and who need a little bit of forward pressure if they're just kicking goals.

Problem with that is you’re replacing our best pressure player with one of our worst.

 

[jonbe54]

Problem with that is you’re replacing our best pressure player with one of our worst.

I wouldn't mind Henry on the bench, and doing a 3 part shuffle with McCreery going onto the ball with Henry slipping in his place for 10 minutes shock and awe - the trouble would be the third leg of the tri-fector

 

[Anzacday]

I wouldn't mind Henry on the bench, and doing a 3 part shuffle with McCreery going onto the ball with Henry slipping in his place for 10 minutes shock and awe - the trouble would be the third leg of the tri-fector

I’d like him on the side and he might be the sub tonight.
The issue is who comes out for him.

 

[Masked Magician]

McCreery for me, just doesn't do enough and who need a little bit of forward pressure if they're just kicking goals.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Modern footy is all about pressure. The defensive side of the game is just as important as the offensive.

Beau is probably one of the first picked in the team sheet atm as he doesn't have pressure on his spot.

 

[jonbe54]

I’d like him on the side and he might be the sub tonight.
The issue is who comes out for him.

Amen to that but what a lovely problem to have considering where we were with personnel just a short time ago.

 

[sr36]

he has good hands but limited acceleration from a standing start, which isnt good for forward pressure

Rather than pressure, I think the issue is more that he lacks size and confidence and virtually concedes aerial balls when out of position - rather than providing a contest that produces spills.

 

[Maggie5]

McCreery for me, just doesn't do enough and who need a little bit of forward pressure if they're just kicking goals.

I was undecided at first but he has won me over, he is a tackling machine.

62 tackles with 23 inside 50, many of which have resulted in us kicking goals. Only 4 players have had more tackles.

Kicked 10 goals over 16 games. I see him as a quiet achiever and a keeper for now.

 

[Lockyer24]

It might not be this year, but I think he is looking likely for a trip down back.
This will help with his pressure/effort game and I also suspect he will be a quality interceptor too anyway

 

[Jen2310]

I screamed out watching this live. It felt like it was happening in slow motion, you could see it happening a mile off.

All that marking with the bag at training paying off haha. Or Howe giving him pointers.

 

[PieLebo87]

Need to keep him at the club, and he needs to be playing at senior level. 10 goals in the last 3 VFL games.

Comes back in this week. If not for WHE, than for Ginnivan.

 

[Soups]

Will be interesting to see if they do bring him back in. I didn’t watch all of the game but it seemed to me he showed what we know he can do, but having 0 tackles for the game isn’t exactly what the coaches are after.

 

[stormskye]

Will be interesting to see if they do bring him back in. I didn’t watch all of the game but it seemed to me he showed what we know he can do, but having 0 tackles for the game isn’t exactly what the coaches are after.

His marking was on show. Again could have had 4 or so goals, unlucky to play on after siren for one. But yeah, the defensive stuff is a work in progress

 

[Jen2310]

Will be interesting to see if they do bring him back in. I didn’t watch all of the game but it seemed to me he showed what we know he can do, but having 0 tackles for the game isn’t exactly what the coaches are after.

He did a fair bit of running/ defensive stuff. Had a real fight about him. More than usual, just wasn't on the end of any tackles

 

[sr36]

He did a fair bit of running/ defensive stuff. Had a real fight about him. More than usual, just wasn't on the end of any tackles

He's a pre-season away, I think. At the moment, he's basically playing as a KPF, but just isn't big enough to provide a consistent contest in the air. He's brilliant when he gets a clean run at it though. Needs to get the endurance up to play higher up the ground.

 

[Jen2310]

He's a pre-season away, I think. At the moment, he's basically playing as a KPF, but just isn't big enough to provide a consistent contest in the air. He's brilliant when he gets a clean run at it though. Needs to get the endurance up to play higher up the ground.

Agreed. Definitely needs another pre-season in the gym and running.

I was telling his parents they'll have to be careful of how much weight he does put on, as you don't want to stop that athletic ability he has, so there needs to be a balance. Whose a comparison we can use?
But the more fit he becomes with endurance, he can run up higher the ground, which is something he has been doing lately in the VFL. Playing a bit higher up unless they need him deeper.

 

[jonbe54]

Agreed. Definitely needs another pre-season in the gym and running.

I was telling his parents they'll have to be careful of how much weight he does put on, as you don't want to stop that athletic ability he has, so there needs to be a balance. Whose a comparison we can use?
But the more fit he becomes with endurance, he can run up higher the ground, which is something he has been doing lately in the VFL. Playing a bit higher up unless they need him deeper.

I think the young Trav Cloke is a good comparison - an aerobic beast.

 

[sr36]

Agreed. Definitely needs another pre-season in the gym and running.

I was telling his parents they'll have to be careful of how much weight he does put on, as you don't want to stop that athletic ability he has, so there needs to be a balance. Whose a comparison we can use?
But the more fit he becomes with endurance, he can run up higher the ground, which is something he has been doing lately in the VFL. Playing a bit higher up unless they need him deeper.

My only doubt on him is that it's hard to find a comparison as a forward. In many ways he seems most suited to a hit up half forward role - but that's a really old fashioned type of role with teams looking to move it differently to how they used to. TBH, I wouldn't be surprised to see him develop into a Jeremy Howe style defender. But who knows which way the game's next trend will be, with kicking skills continuing to improve - Bucks's dream of a forward line of medium sized strong marking mobile aerial threats might become a reality.

 

[jonbe54]

My only doubt on him is that it's hard to find a comparison as a forward. In many ways he seems most suited to a hit up half forward role - but that's a really old fashioned type of role with teams looking to move it differently to how they used to. TBH, I wouldn't be surprised to see him develop into a Jeremy Howe style defender. But who knows which way the game's next trend will be, with kicking skills continuing to improve - Bucks's dream of a forward line of medium sized strong marking mobile aerial threats might become a reality.

Young Trav Cloke.

 

[Jen2310]

My only doubt on him is that it's hard to find a comparison as a forward. In many ways he seems most suited to a hit up half forward role - but that's a really old fashioned type of role with teams looking to move it differently to how they used to. TBH, I wouldn't be surprised to see him develop into a Jeremy Howe style defender.

Yeah, I think either one is possible. Speaking of...

Henry said he had modelled himself on Collingwood high flyer Jeremy Howe.

 

[Go Woods]

Need to keep him at the club, and he needs to be playing at senior level. 10 goals in the last 3 VFL games.

Comes back in this week. If not for WHE, than for Ginnivan.

Jack needs a spell.

 

[sr36]

Young Trav Cloke.

Or Tarrant, but at the moment that hit up style is not a style that many forwards play - That 80 metre out zone is more about runners and forwards trying to turn their man and get out the back on fast plays - or packs on slow plays.

 

[jonbe54]

Or Tarrant, but at the moment that hit up style is not a style that many forwards play that 80 metre out zone is more about runners and forwards trying to turn their man and get out the back on fast plays - or packs on slow plays.

Fair enough but we have to be looking down the track as well as at the present - the surest way to be a multi flag group is to LEAD THE WAY, once you have the initial break from the herd and it's successful the rest of the competition are AT LEAST a year behind and have to play catchup.

Let's be trend setters instead of trend followers - that type of forward play is provenly efficient with proper implementation.

It would take some adaptation to suit current rules but surely to be a year in front of the competition that would be worth it?

 

[swoop42]

I didn't see the VFL game but it's hard to look at the stats and not be impressed by the performance of Madgen. To his credit he refuses to die wondering.

Still, as someone who is very much viewed as a blue collar defender (only amplified by the emergence of Murphy) was there any goal or mark that stood out and wasn't just the result of hard work and a mature body? While guts and determination should be admired and total production be considered as we've seen with both Brown brothers this season dominating at VFL level doesn't necessarily translate to AFL.

Then of course we have to consider Madgen has 2 AFL career goals to his name and we have little knowledge of his capacity to play any role beyond that as a defender at AFL level.

I don't know about anyone else but I find myself becoming increasingly frustrated with Hoskin-Elliott.

While his season has been solid by his career standards he continued what has become a nasty habit for him IMO in the first quarter against Melbourne and he can be a momentum killer in a year momentum is king.

In that first quarter and faced with a golden opportunity to mark at the top of the goal square he once again failed to complete an overhead mark when he had the sit on the opposition. If this was a rarity I wouldn't even mention it but it's happened time and again since his 2018 season when his marking was a highlight. Only Cox would rival WHE when it comes to the gap between being able to bring down a beauty to dropping a pud.

It should be noted that Hoskin-Elliott kicked 8 goals in his first 9 games of the season, while he went goalless in 7 of his next 8 matches. His influence has waned.

The last 11 weeks have been fantastic but I feel some people have become so high on us winning the close ones they think it will last or have lost perspective of just how fine the line was between us sitting in 2nd place or being outside the 8.

On average our winning margin these past 7 weeks was 6.42pts.

What we've witnessed this season is a once in a lifetime moment, enjoy it, soak it up but I remain convinced we aren't so good we should be so flippant to believe that Henry and what he can do well shouldn't be of more importance than what he still needs to improve on.

Honestly what recently turned 20yo with little more than 20 games under his belt still doesn't have flaws?

Personally I'd rather focus on his obvious talent, marking ability, a capacity to generate shots on goal and the potential he's shown to ignite during a game and influence an outcome in a short space of time.

The first glimpse of that potential probably came in his most embarrassing display of the season in round 9 when he couldn't hit the side of the barn with his goal kicking.

Still, on a night our side was flogged by last years grand finalist he had a period where he was the only Collingwood forward who looked anywhere near the level. Unfortunately 3 points (and one OOF?) was his reward. In the round prior against Richmond he managed 2.2 in another poor loss.

The following week against Fremantle was a different story however and when he found himself entering the match due to a substitution he helped take away the game from the Dockers with 4.1 goals on a damp day.

Next round it was Carlton, a win by 4pts and he was the leading goal scorer again with 3.1. Next match it was 2.2 in our 4pt victory over the Hawks.

He kicked a total of 3.3 in the games against GWS and the Gold Coast which were won by a combined total of 16pts.

All up he's generated 21.15 from 13 games, gone scoreless just once and goalless twice. He's made a valuable contribution in a season where every single goal has never counted so more in so many games.

So what now?

For mine any team that's going to win this years flag will have to find a way to beat Geelong (perhaps twice) and that shapes as no easy task.

Outside of their experience, hardened bodies and new found speed they have the absolute luxury of knowing that their two key forwards will probably provide them with 6 goals combined on an average day. Last time they played us that number was 9 goals combined.

That's a lot to overcome and the only way I can see us kicking a winning score is to overwhelm their defence with a multitude of forward talents and one of those talents should be Henry.

For mine what Henry has in common with the likes of McCreery, Ginnivan and Johnson is not only the talent to hurt an experienced opponent at any moment but also the vulnerability of inexperience which means you have to expect fluctuations in output from week to week or quarter to quarter.

It's that vulnerability that forms part of the reason why I want Henry recalled because not only does it serve as greater insurance against any of those young and/or inexperienced forwards having an off day it also comes with the potential upside of exciting talents all fulfilling their potential during periods of games and blowing a team apart.

While some will continue to focus on his diminishing returns across his last 4 games I will say to them that he's young, this should be expected and his output was not that different to Ginnivans between rounds 17 to 19. I'll then remind people he's still kicked as many goals as the far more experienced and lauded Elliott. He's going alright.

When people want to bring up his tackle average of 1 then I'll question whether him tackling 1 less on average than Mihocek per game or .5 than Ginnivan is of more importance this season than the 1.5 goal or 2.75 SOG average he can potentially provide.

Finally if people are still in doubt then take a look at his mark in the VFL this weekend, remember the talent contained within him and that it's been seen at AFL level this year.

Now ask yourself if you really want arguably the best young talent we have outside of Nick Daicos sitting on the sidelines come finals.