(Opinion) Is Darrel Baldock the worst Australian football hall of fame "legend" of all time?

[BringBackTorps]

Your knowledge on the history of our great game is outstanding
The great LJ NASH,was a test cricketer as well,, wow
Wish i could go back in time and watch him and pratt play in the same team

I'm building a time machine. Nearly solved the problem of black holes. Nearly completed it, done a few trials...wanna come?

 

[BringBackTorps]

The quote from Dyer I can only find referenced on Big Footy. Where does it actually come from? Did he ever declare any other player to be the greatest he ever saw? They often do - depending on the room. Has anyone other than Dyer declared him to be the greatest ever[ Dyer called Leeter Collier only the best junior Footballer he ever saw]?
There is a very good reason for only allowing contemporaries[Nonsense] in the "greatest" type lists. Because people are alive who actually saw them. And there is plenty of corroborating evidence.[Nonsense -plenty of evidence exists for players from earlier eras]

In his book (Captain Blood, co-written with B. Hansen, 1965, Anchor Press UK, pg 77), J.Dyer wrote " The GREATEST[my emphasis] player I have seen, Laurie Nash, was brought over by Tasmania...". Dyer repeated this view (that Nash was the greatest player he ever saw) many times, until he passed away.

 

[BringBackTorps]

He couldn't find a spot for Laurie Nash in the top 50, so it's probably best to set aside his notions of pre-war players.

To sell more newspapers, get better ratings/clicks etc, it would be counterproductive to discuss/analyse players from early eras.
Most people under 50 have never heard/heard little about champions from the early eras; & have no emotional/intellectual interest in them -so are less likely to be attracted to these types of articles. Advertisers will only pay top $ for high rating programs/top selling newspapers etc.

 

[Back One Out]

Watch your language. You are the worst complainer of all time. Just sit back and enjoy the glorious discussion like everyone else.

Also if Cazaly is not the worst who is? Everyone likes to snipe but are too gutless to throw their alternative opinion in for scrutiny.

Maybe you should ask one of the mods if they could change the thread title to:

(Opinion) Is Roy Cazaly the worst Australian football hall of fame "legend" of all time?

That way, you wouldn't have to go around and around defending yourself about your misguided OP.

It might also generate some fresh discussion from those who think Roy Cazaly was more legendary than Jack Dyer, Ron Barassi, Malcolm Blight or Barrie Robran.

 

[Back One Out]

Best player I ever saw out of Tasmania was Peter Hudson. Ridiculously talented.
He was in the backend of his career when I was a kid and can remember him absolutely destroying teams week after week.
He certainly destroyed us, kicked 57 goals in four games against us in 1979.
Head and shoulders above anyone else.
Never saw Baldock play as he left Tasmanian football in 1974 to become a parliamentarian and never saw Royce Hart play either so I can't comment on them.
Ian Stewart came from my club and went to the VFL and won three Brownlows but was before my time, he was supposed to present me with my Life Membership last year only that I was away at the time.

I remember reading that he kicked 202 goals in one season for Glenorchy. I think it was 1979.
(That might've also included a few goals for Tassie in the state games)

 

[Kingpin]

I remember reading that he kicked 202 goals in one season for Glenorchy. I think it was 1979.
(That might've also included a few goals for Tassie in the state games)

Yes he did. 179 in TANFL matches and another 23 in Intrastate and Interstate games that year.
Won the William Leitch Medal too but his side lost the grand final by 3 points in front of a record crowd.
In this footage of the grand final he kicks his 200th for the year. That crowd is astonishing.

 

[Snookers]

Playing career: 119 games. 237 goals. 2 times All Australian. 1966 Premiership captain.

Coaching career: 18 wins. 44 losses.

If Barry Breen does not kick that behind Baldock is not elevated.

Is Darrel Baldock the worst Australian Football Hall of Fame Legend of all time?

Tuddy rates him as one of the best. He played against a few decent footballers in his time, so I'll take his word for it.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

I saw him play and he was just a magnificently balanced footballer who had incredible ball skills and was unbelievably evasive. He would regularly beat one, two or three opponents.

What stats can we bring up to show this? Maybe percentage won in one on one contests?

Stats don't tell us anywhere near the whole story and that is why there are new ones made almost every year.

 

[The J Dog]

Played 7 VFL seasons. Finished 11th, 2nd, 29th, 3rd and 4th in the Brownlow before injury made him miss half of season 6. St Kilda won 68% of games he played and made finals 4/7 years. Ian Stewart always said he thought he was only half as good as Baldock. My old man grew up in the 50s and was sports reporter for The Age. He always said that Hart and Baldock were the 2 best players he ever saw but now he says Carey was the best.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

In an amateur team in a small local league in a small state. You are setting the bar pretty damn low for "legend" status in the Australian football hall of fame.

Will ask the same question.

Can you name a worse Australian football hall of fame legend?

It is not so much about potting Baldock. It is about his onfield and coaching feats not quite being up there with the other legends.

Statement or question?

OP is a question, follow ups seem to be statements.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

On Baldock though, perhaps there's some truth to the OP's sentiment (still not sure if it's a statement or question)?

I obviously never saw him play. But as we're now clearly a stats focussed society, it's a fair enough question to pose.

Having said that, maybe it's the opposite? Maybe Baldock's raw stats not being what we consider elite in modern terms, tells us more about our modern value and interpretation of stats, as opposed to Baldock's ability?


I always grew up being told he was a borderline freak. Not just a good player, but a ln error in nature - a wrinkle in the fabric of mortal footballing ability.

I was told stories of him running laps at Moorabbin bouncing a ball in each hand the entire way without breaking stride. A 170cm CHF who dominated games. A dude that had tricks that forced the VFL to change the rules. Shit like that.


Having said that, is there actually anyone out there that gives the slightest **** about who is a Legend in the AFL Hall of Fame or whatever it is?

 

[joop]

On Baldock though, perhaps there's some truth to the OP's sentiment (still not sure if it's a statement or question)?

I obviously never saw him play. But as we're now clearly a stats focussed society, it's a fair enough question to pose.

Having said that, maybe it's the opposite? Maybe Baldock's raw stats not being what we consider elite in modern terms, tells us more about our modern value and interpretation of stats, as opposed to Baldock's ability?


I always grew up being told he was a borderline freak. Not just a good player, but a ln error in nature - a wrinkle in the fabric of mortal footballing ability.

I was told stories of him running laps at Moorabbin bouncing a ball in each hand the entire way without breaking stride. A 170cm CHF who dominated games. A dude that had tricks that forced the VFL to change the rules. s**t like that.


Having said that, is there actually anyone out there that gives the slightest * about who is a Legend in the AFL Hall of Fame or whatever it is?

Do we trust stats or do we trust the players, coaches and spectators that saw him play?

 

[My Tilly]

I saw him play and he was just a magnificently balanced footballer who had incredible ball skills and was unbelievably evasive. He would regularly beat one, two or three opponents.

What stats can we bring up to show this? Maybe percentage won in one on one contests?

Stats don't tell us anywhere near the whole story and that is why there are new ones made almost every year.

My fathers best mate (6ft'3 and 95kg) played against him in Tasmania.
Rates him very highly. Said he was very strong and could not be knocked off the ball. Played much taller than what he was.
One other attribute were the ground conditions back in the old days. They were extremely poor by today's standards and Baldock was in his element the muddier it was.
Brilliant on both sides.

People need to remember that great players were often poached away from the VFL as there was much more money in doing so. Many left the VFL with a few years left to spare.

 

[JackFlash]

Incredible question. Baldock is arguably the greatest player in the 1960s, a time when footy was entering the golden age. It's not worth answering, there isn't any doubt about his legendary status.

 

[Tigers8922]

Statement or question?

OP is a question, follow ups seem to be statements.

Or just someone who doesn't know their footy history and the strength of Tasmanjan football through the 60's & the how Doc changed the game, despite at 5'10" regularly being bashed from pillar to post

 

[South of the Yarra]

Coleman would potentially be the most over rated player of all time. Only topped the ton 3 times and never kicked more than 120 in a season. A second best year of 103.Also played in a post war era of very poor full backs and full forwards. Todd, Coventry and Pratt all kicked more goals in a season 10/15 years earlier. Also kicked the majority of his goals against poor teams. His finals average was significantly lower.

 

[Richo83]

Coleman would potentially be the most over rated player of all time. Only topped the ton 3 times and never kicked more than 120 in a season. A second best year of 103.Also played in a post war era of very poor full backs and full forwards. Todd, Coventry and Pratt all kicked more goals in a season 10/15 years earlier. Also kicked the majority of his goals against poor teams. His finals average was significantly lower.

Delete your account.

 

[Dazb86]

I'd have to say anyone that hasn't played at the top level (VFL/AFL) doesn't deserve a spot in the hall of fame.

 

[Richo83]

I'll give the OP one which I think is probably worse: Peter Bell. Peter was a good player, a very good player. Do I think he's hall of fame worthy though? To me what sticks out is I've never seen him rated as one of the best from the 90s or 00s, and I think he's a tier below the likes of Buckley, Hird, Voss etc. Made AA twice which isn't many times.

Is he the worst hall of fame member? Not sure. Do I think he's worse than Baldock and (dear Christ) Coleman? Yes.

 

[The Punter]

I wrote about this over three years ago:

Time to change the Hall of the Very Good

The Australian Football Hall of Fame night is one of the great nights. It is wonderful hearing the old stories and learning about the…

www.theroar.com.au

 

[South of the Yarra]

Delete your account.

Why for having an opinion that is supported by statistics not hype?

 

[South of the Yarra]

Delete your account.

If he was that great why was his second best season only 103 goals? When Pratt had kicked 150 around 15 years earlier. Coventry kicked 124 in 1929.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

I'll give the OP one which I think is probably worse: Peter Bell. Peter was a good player, a very good player. Do I think he's hall of fame worthy though? To me what sticks out is I've never seen him rated as one of the best from the 90s or 00s, and I think he's a tier below the likes of Buckley, Hird, Voss etc. Made AA twice which isn't many times.

Is he the worst hall of fame member? Not sure. Do I think he's worse than Baldock and (dear Christ) Coleman? Yes.

I think the thread is referencing HOF legends specifically, not just normal inductees. Peter Bell is not a legend (and never will be). If it was counting everyone in the HOF, there would be plenty of names "worse" than Baldock.

With that said, I think Cazaly is the 'least credentialed' legend but I hate the concept of picking a 'worst' from an honorary, elite group who added so much to the game.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Who care really, the whole HOF/Legend status lost its standing when they inducted some chick ahead of guys like Winmar and Pavlich and took 26yrs to elevate arguably one of the greatest natural talents to ever play the game in Russell Ebert to Legend status and then doing so after he passed was a disgrace.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Coleman’s best season was bettered 22 times, his second best season was bettered 45 times. Not exactly ground breaking stuff. Yes he flew for the big marks, looked spectacular but there were far greater Full Forwards.