Oppo Camp Other Clubs News/General Discussion

[whiskeytown]

They popped to clenbuterol FFS.

And?

They weren’t afforded the AFL sanctioned secret drug test beforehand to stop them from being caught by WADA

So they have every right to feel miffed by the system

 

[whiskeytown]

They could have self reported. They obviously didn't.

So every player Melbourne screened before game day self reported prior?

 

[sideswipe]

And?

They weren’t afforded the AFL sanctioned secret drug test beforehand to stop them from being caught by WADA

So they have every right to feel miffed by the system

Have you been tested today?

 

[sr36]

So you’re now moving the goalposts to “we’re not interested in catching and punishing… during the week”?

I'm not shifting goal posts. They are the WADA goal posts for party drugs. They are the AFL goal posts for party drugs, with a tokenistic 3 strikes policy thrown in, I'd suggest to appease those who want the AFL to police party drugs. They're the goal posts at most schools - punishment for taking drugs at school - none for telling a counsellor that you took drugs outside of school. They're the goal posts at mining sites too. We hand out clean syringes rather than punishing someone who self reports to taking heroine. It's how we're trying to tackle drugs - Education to discourage, counselling to reduce the hole that it is sometimes filling and harm minimisation and safety precautions to reduce the damage when the inevitable occurs and a percentage of the population take drugs. Using only hasn't been de-criminalised because too many in the public would go batshit.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

If I were Keeffe and Thomas I’d be spewing… lost years of their career

Then this happens under the AFLs nose

Different situations. They tested positive to a banned WADA drug. Their bad luck it was cut into a party drug

 

[whiskeytown]

I don't know if Dee player's did or not. But you were talking about Keeffee & Thomas' situation. Btw, they got done for having clenbuterol in their system. Quite different situation to what is being discussed with the AFL illicit drug policy/3 strike rule & recreational drugs.

The Keeffe/Thomas cocaine was cut with clenbuterol

And cocaine even without the clenbuterol is a prohibited wada substance I believe…

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The Keeffe/Thomas cocaine was cut with clenbuterol

And cocaine even without the clenbuterol is a prohibited wada substance I believe…

Only on game day. Keeffe and Thomas weren’t tested positive on game day.

Different situation.

As others have tried to explain.

 

[Jonno94]

Different situations. They tested positive to a banned WADA drug. Their bad luck it was cut into a party drug

Uhh yeah..

 

[sideswipe]

The Keeffe/Thomas cocaine was cut with clenbuterol

And cocaine even without the clenbuterol is a prohibited wada substance I believe…

You are making yourself look a bit silly here. Coke is banned in competition. Clenbuterol is banned at all times. So even if Keefe and Thomas had themselves a private test that told them they were glowing, that would have been no help as they still would have popped at the WADA test.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Uhh yeah..

That’s the reported story . No compulsion to believe it’s true or otherwise

They took their full cop anyway and didn’t try and ask for a discount for being unlucky

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I'm not shifting goal posts. They are the WADA goal posts for party drugs. They are the AFL goal posts for party drugs, with a tokenistic 3 strikes policy thrown in, I'd suggest to appease those who want the AFL to police party drugs. They're the goal posts at most schools - punishment for taking drugs at school - none for telling a counsellor that you took drugs outside of school. They're the goal posts at mining sites too. We hand out clean syringes rather than punishing someone who self reports to taking heroine. It's how we're trying to tackle drugs - Education to discourage, counselling to reduce the hole that it is sometimes filling and harm minimisation and safety precautions to reduce the damage when the inevitable occurs and a percentage of the population take drugs. Using only hasn't been de-criminalised because too many in the public would go batshit.

You lost me when your response to the question “why are the AFL signatories to the WADA code?” was “it is the WADA code”.

I understand why the AFL is uninterested in catching and punishing recreational drug use. I do not understand why the AFL would be signatories to the WADA code and then go out of its way to subvert it… or perhaps more accurately, I do understand it (from the funding point of view) but don’t like the disingenuousness of it.

The AFL should stop presenting themselves as the drug police, provide whatever resources they can to players who self-report, and allow WADA to do all the testing they like for performance-enhancing substances to ensure fair competition. The three strikes policy is complete bullshit.

 

[whiskeytown]

You are making yourself look a bit silly here. Coke is banned in competition. Clenbuterol is banned at all times. So even if Keefe and Thomas had themselves a private test that told them they were glowing, that would have been no help as they still would have popped at the WADA test.

So being diverted away from game day Wada test because of coke use (that may contain clenbuterol) is ok… even if the player has clenbuterol etc in their system - which you stipulate is worse

So the Melbourne player who was out for several weeks with ‘a hammy’ that never healed… may have very well had clenbuterol picked up by the club provided drug test… but was led in a different direction to avoid wada sanction…

Nothing to see here

 

[stormskye]

You lost me when your response to the question “why are the AFL signatories to the WADA code?” was “it is the WADA code”.

I understand why the AFL is uninterested in catching and punishing recreational drug use. I do not understand why the AFL would be signatories to the WADA code and then go out of its way to subvert it… or perhaps more accurately, I do understand it (from the funding point of view) but don’t like the disingenuousness of it.

The AFL should stop presenting themselves as the drug police, provide whatever resources they can to players who self-report, and allow WADA to do all the testing they like for performance-enhancing substances to ensure fair competition. The three strikes policy is complete bullshit.

It all seems very contradictory to me.
It would be like police breath testing you before you get to a booze bus.

I find it all very odd tbh.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

So being diverted away from game day Wada test because of coke use (that may contain clenbuterol) is ok… even if the player has clenbuterol etc in their system - which you stipulate is worse

So the Melbourne player who was out for several weeks with ‘a hammy’ that never healed… may have very well had clenbuterol picked up by the club provided drug test… but was led in a different direction to avoid wada sanction…

Nothing to see here

They can’t be steered away from a WADA test. WADA can test any player at any time they like, and clenbuterol is banned at any time because it is performance enhancing in-competition and out of competition.

By not allowing the player to play on gameday, they can be tested by WADA but can’t be popped by WADA for cocaine because it is only banned in-competition, and if the player isn’t playing, it isn’t in-competition.

 

[Chameleon75]

Starting to wonder what "managed" really means?

 

[Chameleon75]

They could have self reported. They obviously didn't.

no, clen is banned in and out of competition, coke is banned in competition only, so they’re not comparative at all.

 

[sr36]

You lost me when your response to the question “why are the AFL signatories to the WADA code?” was “it is the WADA code”.

I understand why the AFL is uninterested in catching and punishing recreational drug use. I do not understand why the AFL would be signatories to the WADA code and then go out of its way to subvert it… or perhaps more accurately, I do understand it (from the funding point of view) but don’t like the disingenuousness of it.

The AFL should stop presenting themselves as the drug police, provide whatever resources they can to players who self-report, and allow WADA to do all the testing they like for performance-enhancing substances to ensure fair competition. The three strikes policy is complete bullshit.

What i meant by it is the WADA code is to stop players having recreational drugs in their system on match day, but doesn't punish athletes for out of competition drug use. This practice helps to do that.

I'm confused why you think it's subverting the WADA code. It's not helping players to get away with having drugs in their system on match day. It's stopping them from having drugs in their system on match day

Agree that the three strikes thing is bullshit.

 

[Chameleon75]

So all these players who have self reported..what drug did they have in their system? None of them had coke?

it would be party drugs that are banned only in competition. You can’t self report on a ped, we’ll you can but it would be pretty stupid as you’ll get done.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

What i meant by it is the WADA code is to stop players having recreational drugs in their system on match day, but doesn't punish athletes for out of competition drug use. This practice helps to do that.

I'm confused why you think it's subverting the WADA code. It's not helping players to get away with having drugs in their system on match day. It's stopping them from having drugs in their system on match day

Agree that the three strikes thing is bullshit.

The WADA code isn’t to prevent players having recreational drugs in their system on match day, it’s to stop them having performance enhancing drugs in their system on match day, or for drugs such as clenbuterol which helps with muscle building, endurance and recovery, having it in your system at all. WADA couldn’t give a **** about recreational drugs providing they aren’t considered performance enhancing on match day.

As for subverting the WADA code, it’s not stopping players from having drugs in their system on match day, it’s stopping players with drugs in their system having a match day. It’s not going to deter drug use at all. You’ve got it backwards.

 

[sideswipe]

So being diverted away from game day Wada test because of coke use (that may contain clenbuterol) is ok… even if the player has clenbuterol etc in their system - which you stipulate is worse

So the Melbourne player who was out for several weeks with ‘a hammy’ that never healed… may have very well had clenbuterol picked up by the club provided drug test… but was led in a different direction to avoid wada sanction…

Nothing to see here

In addition to the other comments above, it wouldn't matter if the "Melbourne player with the hammy" sat out footy, he could still be SIA/WADA tested at any point in time. You need to let this go.

 

[sr36]

The WADA code isn’t to prevent players having recreational drugs in their system on match day, it’s to stop them having performance enhancing drugs in their system on match day, or for drugs such as clenbuterol which helps with muscle building, endurance and recovery, having it in your system at all. WADA couldn’t give a * about recreational drugs providing they aren’t considered performance enhancing on match day.

As for subverting the WADA code, it’s not stopping players from having drugs in their system on match day, it’s stopping players with drugs in their system having a match day. It’s not going to deter drug use at all. You’ve got it backwards.

I'm struggling to see why you think I've got it backwards.

It's not trying to deter drug use outside of match day. Like you said - they're not interested in that. It's trying to stop athletes competing whilst on match day banned recreational drugs. Full stop. It's what both WADA match day testing and this testing is doing - trying to stop athletes competing whilst they've got match day banned drugs in their system. It fits really well with WADA's policy.

 

[Go Woods]

MFC, what a Sh## show.

 

[Markfs]

The WADA code isn’t to prevent players having recreational drugs in their system on match day, it’s to stop them having performance enhancing drugs in their system on match day, or for drugs such as clenbuterol which helps with muscle building, endurance and recovery, having it in your system at all. WADA couldn’t give a * about recreational drugs providing they aren’t considered performance enhancing on match day.

As for subverting the WADA code, it’s not stopping players from having drugs in their system on match day, it’s stopping players with drugs in their system having a match day. It’s not going to deter drug use at all. You’ve got it backwards.

I dont know much about drugs. Actually, I only know what I read. However, it seems that some recreational drugs are banned on match day testing.

Regarding cocaine, this is the period where detection results in a ban

WHAT IS THE ‘IN-COMPETITION’ PERIOD?​

The In-Competition period commences at 11.59pm the night before a competition in which an athlete is scheduled to compete, through to the end of that competition and any sample collection process undertaken.

https://www.sportintegrity.gov.au/what-we-do/anti-doping/prohibited-substances-and-methods/cocaine-use-sport

 

[Markfs]

My understanding is that there are two drug programs - one for recreational drugs and one for performance.

However some recreational drugs are considered performance enhancing drugs when tested on match day, but not during the week.

I must admit, I cant understand how a person is going to clear their system of cocaine taken on friday night before midnight when they are playing saturday night. Drink a lot of water?

 

[sr36]

I must admit, I cant understand how a person is going to clear their system of cocaine taken on friday night before midnight when they are playing saturday night. Drink a lot of water?

They're not. That person shouldn't play. They'll get done if tested. But the point of the testing is that cocaine might still show up in your urine 3 or 4 days after taking it. So a midweek line of coke can cost you a 4 year ban. Or it can be gone and you're free to play under the WADA code.