Oppo Camp Other Clubs News/General Discussion

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

My post wasn't in relation to any poster comments.

I hadn't read them and still haven't.

My bad I haven’t seen or read any of the media

 

[manicpie]

If I see another picture of one of the Scott twins, I think I'll stick hot chop sticks in my eyes

 

[Abdul_The_Bull]

Gary Lyon is an idiot.
Trying to compare HIA with hamstring injury.
Oh, with a hammy you are taken off straight away for assessment, but in the Cameron incident he was assessed on the ground.
Oh Gary. Do you not understand that a hammy injury stops you competing at 100% so you are a liability to the team. A head injury is not immediately apparent and all four limbs are generally working. So you are not a liability.
That’s why a hammy goes off and a head knock stays on. Not because of care for the player, but for impact on field.

Agreed! That first sentence is all you needed to type.

And... he is of low moral character and if the AFL are serious about developing a positive culture, then this guy shouldn't be on screens anywhere. Speaks sh!te and adds no value. No Brownlow, no Norm Smith, no Premiership.... just the captain of an ordinary football team. Get him off!

 

[Vicky Park]

Robbo is as we speak giving congratulations to Brad Scott and everyone at the club

Did they win the flag and we missed it? Lol

So now we have both Carlton and Essendon prematurely congratulating themselves on winning the flag. Bodes well.

 

[Vicky Park]

Gary Lyon is an idiot.
Trying to compare HIA with hamstring injury.
Oh, with a hammy you are taken off straight away for assessment, but in the Cameron incident he was assessed on the ground.
Oh Gary. Do you not understand that a hammy injury stops you competing at 100% so you are a liability to the team. A head injury is not immediately apparent and all four limbs are generally working. So you are not a liability.
That’s why a hammy goes off and a head knock stays on. Not because of care for the player, but for impact on field.

I thought Lyon made a fair point. Made sense to me.

 

[Vicky Park]

Gary Lyon is an idiot.
Trying to compare HIA with hamstring injury.
Oh, with a hammy you are taken off straight away for assessment, but in the Cameron incident he was assessed on the ground.
Oh Gary. Do you not understand that a hammy injury stops you competing at 100% so you are a liability to the team. A head injury is not immediately apparent and all four limbs are generally working. So you are not a liability.
That’s why a hammy goes off and a head knock stays on. Not because of care for the player, but for impact on field.

Further to the above, why I thought Lyon made sense:

The brain is more important than a hamstring.

Protecting the brain should be more important than protecting a hamstring.

A player is removed from the field at the merest whiff of a hammy (unless you play for Port) and mostly does not return to the game.

Cameron fell about six feet onto his head, which actually bounced off the ground, was (albeit) briefly dazed and then stood to keep playing. The Geelong doc went to him on three occasions to do the HIA test (which is allowed to be done on field), in amongst play continuing. Cameron presumably answered the questions correctly (which our own beloved Murphy has revealed can be memorised), and was allowed to stay on field. Next day, he has concussion symptoms and is now in the protocols.

Lyon’s point that the HIA assessment is not good enough seems reasonable to me.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

If I see another picture of one of the Scott twins, I think I'll stick hot chop sticks in my eyes

That would just about be the only thing Dusty would be good for at the moment.

 

[Horaceg]

I thought Lyon made a fair point. Made sense to me.

You could see what he was trying to achieve, delivery was a bit of an issue, lost a little in translation.

The impact to the head has longer term issues, why don’t we take more time to assess like we do for a hamstring. I think that’s all he needed to say.

Problem is a hamstring is pretty much a known quantity straight away, a head can be delayed but you can also have head knock and be totally fine. Head knocks can also have a cumulative effect over time

 

[sr36]

Further to the above, why I thought Lyon made sense:

The brain is more important than a hamstring.

Protecting the brain should be more important than protecting a hamstring.

A player is removed from the field at the merest whiff of a hammy (unless you play for Port) and mostly does not return to the game.

Cameron fell about six feet onto his head, which actually bounced off the ground, was (albeit) briefly dazed and then stood to keep playing. The Geelong doc went to him on three occasions to do the HIA test (which is allowed to be done on field), in amongst play continuing. Cameron presumably answered the questions correctly (which our own beloved Murphy has revealed can be memorised), and was allowed to stay on field. Next day, he has concussion symptoms and is now in the protocols.

Lyon’s point that the HIA assessment is not good enough seems reasonable to me.

Players wave the trainer away all the time when he comes out due to them limping briefly after an incident, so his point didn't really make sense.

One of the issues with concussions is that they really don't know what damage is done - even from a scan. Such a tough area.

 

[Vicky Park]

You could see what he was trying to achieve, delivery was a bit of an issue, lost a little in translation.

The impact to the head has longer term issues, why don’t we take more time to assess like we do for a hamstring. I think that’s all he needed to say.

Problem is a hamstring is pretty much a known quantity straight away, a head can be delayed but you can also have head knock and be totally fine. Head knocks can also have a cumulative effect over time

Players wave the trainer away all the time when he comes out due to them limping briefly after an incident, so his point didn't really make sense.

One of the issues with concussions is that they really don't know what damage is done - even from a scan. Such a tough area.

I agree that Lyon’s analogy was clunky. But his point still stands in my view.

Of interest in the discussion last night, was the point made about some clubs resisting the introduction of a neutral and independent ‘concussion’ doctor, to step in when these things happen. The resistance or reluctance being based on a neutral doctor not ‘knowing’ the affected player, and therefore not being able to properly assess the player.

I guess there is some validity to that point, but geez it again emphasises the complexity around this issue.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I thought Lyon made a fair point. Made sense to me.

Yeah me too lol

Not sure why the vitriol

Seems a LOT of people missed the point

 

[sr36]

I agree that Lyon’s analogy was clunky. But his point still stands in my view.

Of interest in the discussion last night, was the point made about some clubs resisting the introduction of a neutral and independent ‘concussion’ doctor, to step in when these things happen. The resistance or reluctance being based on a neutral doctor not ‘knowing’ the affected player, and therefore not being able to properly assess the player.

I guess there is some validity to that point, but geez it again emphasises the complexity around this issue.

There's not going to be a great solution until technology or other means can detect damage to the brain better. However we've come a long way since there was no such thing as an injury above the shoulders.

One of the issues is that it's going to get worse during finals. What's the chance that Cameron would have gone into the protocols if Geelong were about to play a prelim?

 

[sr36]

Yeah me too lol

Not sure why the vitriol

Seems a LOT of people missed the point

His analogy was a load of rubbish. Players don't get taken off for an assessment every time they get up from a contest with a limp. Players try to play on and let the medicos know if they're not right. Mihocek just played half a game with a hamstring strain. Players play every week with known symptoms of other conditions - they don't with concussion. He's trying to pretend that the footy world isn't taking potential concussion as seriously as potential hamstring strains, but it's just not true.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

His analogy was a load of rubbish. Players don't get taken off for an assessment every time they get up from a contest with a limp. Players try to play on and let the medicos know if they're not right. Mihocek just played half a game with a hamstring strain. Players play every week with known symptoms of other conditions - they don't with concussion. He's trying to pretend that the footy world isn't taking potential concussion as seriously as potential hamstring strains, but it's just not true.

Again, I think many of you took him a little too literally and missed the point

 

[sr36]

Again, I think many of you took him a little too literally and missed the point

What do you think his attempted point was?

To me it was that clubs aren't taking concussion seriously enough, which he tried to substantiate it with a load of rubbish by using a bullshit comparison.

It was a mess, as we sure as hell don't want clubs to treat concussion the way they do with other injuries, which became his point.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

What do you think his point was?

To me it was that clubs aren't taking concussion seriously enough, which he tried to substantiate it with a load of rubbish by using a bullshit comparison.

Well yeah. That was the point.

They're not taking brain injuries and concussion seriously despite claiming the opposite for 2 years.

So why the focus on the analogy then? lol

His analogy isn't totally off in the context of understanding his point. Like, if you do understand the point he was trying to make, then his analogy wasn't all that bad. It especially wasn't off enough to warrant some of the reactions to it in here.

Again, particularly given the point he was ultimately making, which was a good one

 

[sr36]

Well yeah. That was the point.

They're not taking brain injuries and concussion seriously despite claiming the opposite for 2 years.

So why the focus on the analogy then? lol

His analogy isn't totally off in the context of understanding his point. Like, if you do understand the point he was trying to make, then his analogy wasn't all that bad. It especially wasn't off enough to warrant some of the reactions to it in here.

Again, particularly given the point he was ultimately making, which was a good one

His analogy was terrible. It turned his point into: we should take concussion as seriously as other injuries - when we should be taking it more seriously and are already. The last thing we want is for clubs to treat it like we do other injuries. Cameron would play this week if we did.

Gary offered nothing - just pretended there was an easy solution to fan the flames of a story. The unfortunate reality is that unless there is an automatic out of the game from a head knock (which would have to be somehow related to severity of knock or we'd not be able to finish games), players will continue to play on - as we can't accurately assess head trauma and heaps will initially pass tests and play on and then later get headaches or other symptoms that place then into the concussion protocols like what has occurred with Cameron..

 

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

sheedy won’t be happy, Essendon’s improvement means his dream of having hird return are dead and buried

and cremated

 

[Jen2310]

Heartbreaking for the kid

 

[JLC]

Reportedly on $650k to $700k. Allowing for increase in the salary cap it supposedly wont be too much of a difference. However I agree with you. De Koning has to be re-signed this year as well

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I have not faith in the administering of the salary cap.

Carlton have had a few shocking deals along the way Zac Williams, Mitch McGovern but still retain their stars without losing any players.

It doesn't add up to me.

 

[gouki88]

Heartbreaking for the kid

Bloody hell! Had he suffered head knocks as a junior?

 

[Jen2310]

Bloody hell! Had he suffered head knocks as a junior?

Nor sure. Nothing has been mentioned about it. All it refers to is this knock he got in January.

 

[gouki88]

Nor sure. Nothing has been mentioned about it. All it refers to is this knock he got in January.

Must have been one hell of a hit

 

[Jen2310]

Must have been one hell of a hit

He did get sent to hospital, and the preseason game got called off at the time.

AFL draftee Aiden O’Driscoll has become the latest AFL player forced into retirement after a sickening head clash with Bailey Williams that caused the Western Bulldogs to cancel a summer practice game.
O’Driscoll was drafted as an elite-running midfielder taken at pick 55 by the Dogs last year, and never got to play an official game for the Dogs or their VFL side Footscray.

He was not cleared to return after that January clash, which caused a serious concussion, and after a series of meetings with experts was referred to the AFL’s concussion panel.

His symptoms were not horrific and he was still involved in running drills but the concussion panel ruled he should retire from football.

The Dogs had been hopeful he might be able to return to football given he was the club’s best runner but accepted his retirement given the AFL ruling.

 

[gouki88]

Big losses. Kelly is no stranger to injuries