Our ideal side- 2-3years

[courtjester]

Let's say we get 2-3 more years into our kids, giving them an extra 50ish games and bigger bodies. What would our ideal side be (with who we have now) and what would we be lacking?

B: Newman---McGuane---Dea
HB: Deledio---Post---????
C: ????---Cotchin---Jackson
HF: Nahas---Astbury---Morton
FF: ????---Riewoldt---????

Ruck: Vickery---Martin---Tambling


I haven't seen many Richmond games this year and I'm interested in seeing who has an opinion on the potential of our yougn list.

 

[JimmyRecard]

B: Newman---Thursty---Moore
HB: Deledio---Mcguane---?
C: Edwards---Foley---?
HF: Tambling---Griffiths---Morton
FF: Nahas---Riewoldt---Astbury

Ruck: Vickery---Martin---Cotchin

bench: Jackson, Rance, ?, ?


I think we need another elite half back flanker, good defensively but a great ball user aswell e.g hodge, goddard, enright type.

Might want another gun midfielder to rotate through off the bench.

The jury would still be out on if Vickery can be our number 1 premiership ruckman, if Griffiths/astbury can support Riewoldt well enough or if we have to draft a high pick KPF and if nahas can be the required goal sneak.

Way to hard to judge young guns like nason

 

[RichosGuns]

From what I have seen the players in this side would be competitive against the best sides in the leagure in two years:

FB: ????? - ?????? - ?????
HB: Deledio - ????- ??????
C: ?????? - Cotchin - ?????
HF: ????? - Riewoldt - ?????
FF: ????? - ??????? - ?????

Ruck: ????? - Foley - Martin

Interchange: ????? ????? ???? ????

That is the side. Alot of places to fill unfortunately.

The rest to come from: Thurstfield, McGuane, Conners, Edwards, Dea, Nahas, Webberly, Nason, Griffths, Astbury, Vickery, Jackson, Morton, Browne, Taylor, Contin, Westhoff, Collins, Gourids, Grimes

Can't see the following making it either for age or abilty: Newman, Moore, Simmonds, Hislop, Farmer, Gilligan, White, Cousins, Hicks, McMohan, King, Thomson, Polak, Roberts, Rance

The only maybes are Tambling and Polo

 

[Madtiger2006]

This is our ideal side by Round 15 this year hopefully

FB: Tambling Thursfield Newman
HB: Connors Post Mcguane
C: Edwards Cotchin Webberley
HF: Taylor Astbury Nason
FF: Reiwoldt Griffiths Morton
FOLL: Graham Martin Deledio
INT: Vickery Foley Jackson Rance

 

[Anti-pow]

B: ????---Gourdis---Thursfield
HB:Newman,---Post---Conners
C: Deledio---Cotchin---Collins
HF: Astbury---Griffiths---Morton
FF: Nahas---Riewoldt---Taylor
Fol:Vickery,Martin, Foley

Bench: Edwards,Tambling,???? ,Browne

really need a good back pocket who can stop a Small forward

Also i'm hoping we performed a miracle last draft and got 4 really good players

 

[coke_zero]

This is our ideal side by Round 15 this year hopefully

FB: Tambling Thursfield Newman
HB: Connors Post Mcguane
C: Edwards Cotchin Webberley
HF: Taylor Astbury Nason
FF: Reiwoldt Griffiths Morton
FOLL: Graham Martin Deledio
INT: Vickery Foley Jackson Rance

the forward line is to tall. Nahas for one of Griffiths, Astbury or Morton would look better. Collins should also be in there somewhere. would easily break into that team.

 

[folester41]

From what I have seen the players in this side would be competitive against the best sides in the leagure in two years:

FB: ????? - ?????? - ?????
HB: Deledio - ????- ??????
C: ?????? - Cotchin - ?????
HF: ????? - Riewoldt - ?????
FF: ????? - ??????? - ?????

Ruck: ????? - Foley - Martin

Interchange: ????? ????? ???? ????

That is the side. Alot of places to fill unfortunately.

The rest to come from: Thurstfield, McGuane, Conners, Edwards, Dea, Nahas, Webberly, Nason, Griffths, Astbury, Vickery, Jackson, Morton, Browne, Taylor, Contin, Westhoff, Collins, Gourids, Grimes

Can't see the following making it either for age or abilty: Newman, Moore, Simmonds, Hislop, Farmer, Gilligan, White, Cousins, Hicks, McMohan, King, Thomson, Polak, Roberts, Rance

The only maybes are Tambling and Polo

atleast someone is being realistic, your on the money richosguns.

its most likely that atleast half a dozen of those in the top group will make it, but at the moment they have a long way to go and are far from certainties.

 

[santa claws]

From what I have seen the players in this side would be competitive against the best sides in the leagure in two years:

FB: ????? - ?????? - ?????
HB: Deledio - ????- ??????
C: ?????? - Cotchin - ?????
HF: ????? - Riewoldt - ?????
FF: ????? - ??????? - ?????

Ruck: ????? - Foley - Martin

Interchange: ????? ????? ???? ????

That is the side. Alot of places to fill unfortunately.

The rest to come from: Thurstfield, McGuane, Conners, Edwards, Dea, Nahas, Webberly, Nason, Griffths, Astbury, Vickery, Jackson, Morton, Browne, Taylor, Contin, Westhoff, Collins, Gourids, Grimes

Can't see the following making it either for age or abilty: Newman, Moore, Simmonds, Hislop, Farmer, Gilligan, White, Cousins, Hicks, McMohan, King, Thomson, Polak, Roberts, Rance

The only maybes are Tambling and Polo

yep i to agree with this in the main.

 

[Mr Magic]

This is an interesting one.

To be fair it depends on who we play so some. I will be super critical or apply a virtual lock mentality not disregarding some may be traded. In fact some players should be included but I haven't because they may be traded.

This team may not necessarily represent what I envisage may be our premiership team because we arent ready to win a premiership in 3 years even allowing gun recruits. Thursfield and Post if develop as hope will be in there in some capacity I like what I have seen of Astbury so I think he could make it. If Jackson and Foley are with us they will be there but they mightn't be with us, not that I know anything, as other opportunities might present themselves for them. Newman might be with us but , like ottens, if he wants to he deserves to go for the premiership elsewhere realistically within his window. I wouldn't trade these for nothing by the way and only on amicable terms. Tuck will probably not be with us at the end premiership team but if no one wants the trade he is a good on field leader like cuz although not perfect in our 2-3 year development team. Some of the others might make it but for me there are question marks so i haven't included them or forgot them in the rush-apologies. Morton isn't a absolute lock either its is just a on balance through it together team based on what I have seen and speculation/forecasts accordingly within a perceived standard deviation. For example Mcguane may improve big time and get stronger with more balance through the core and become a lock.

???? ?????? Dea

Deledio ????? Connors

??????? Cotchin ??????

Riewoldt Astbury Taylor

Morton ????? Griffiths

FOLL Vickery Martin ?????

Bench Tambling Tuck Rance Edwards

 

[the ranger]

From what I have seen the players in this side would be competitive against the best sides in the leagure in two years:

FB: ????? - ?????? - ?????
HB: Deledio - ????- ??????
C: ?????? - Cotchin - ?????
HF: ????? - Riewoldt - ?????
FF: ????? - ??????? - ?????

Ruck: ????? - Foley - Martin

Interchange: ????? ????? ???? ????

That is the side. Alot of places to fill unfortunately.

The rest to come from: Thurstfield, McGuane, Conners, Edwards, Dea, Nahas, Webberly, Nason, Griffths, Astbury, Vickery, Jackson, Morton, Browne, Taylor, Contin, Westhoff, Collins, Gourids, Grimes

Can't see the following making it either for age or abilty: Newman, Moore, Simmonds, Hislop, Farmer, Gilligan, White, Cousins, Hicks, McMohan, King, Thomson, Polak, Roberts, Rance

The only maybes are Tambling and Polo

While I understand your reasoning, I think you can bank on at least 7-8 of the guys in your "rest to come from" group making it. Hopefully more like 12-15. As for the guys you count out for age or ability, Newman isn't that old and Rance, Moore, Farmer, White, Gilligan, Browne and Hicks all could still be players. Best case scenario (with Tambling and Polo also included) means we would have 30 players in place. More realistically, we could have 20. Add a few more from the next two drafts and we could be looking very healthy indeed.

B: Newman Thursfield Gourdis
HB: Deledio Post Connors
C: Collins Martin Nason
HF: Morton Astbury Riewoldt
F: Tambling Griffiths Nahas
FOL: Vickery Foley Cotchin

INT: Graham McGuane Jackson Edwards

DEPTH: Rance Moore Polo Polak Webberley White Taylor Browne Dea Gilligan Contin Westhoff Grimes Hicks

Bolded the ones that I think have already shown that they can fill the positions I've named them in. There are no glaring vacancies where we don't have somebody with the ability to step up already on the list, but quite a few where the players in question haven't yet shown enough.

 

[Bazzar]

Seriously hate these threads. They should be banned. Go back two years and look at the equivalent threads and teams posted. Miles from where we are now and where we need to be. Who knows who will be picked up in 2011 and 2012 draft.

 

[Mr Magic]

It is not that bad.


I will tell you why.

If you asked me this back ten years ago I would have included these.

Ottens, Richo, Campbell, Bowden and that was it . Lambert and Knights might have still been with us but we carried an awful lot of passengers on the back of these 4 in particular The other young and coming I wouldn't put in the same category as the players we have know particularly on potential which is largely what this is about. Taylor for example promises the world but he might not bulk up or get everything together so their are a lot of bridges to cross. But we have hope my friend . At last we have real hope for real success. It takes a lot of heart to get there but with Martin and Webberly on the weekend showing the way in terms of grit , as well as White, we are going in the right direction.

For example Post is very good prospect and may be a champion, Grimes I forgot about as well as Westhoff and a few others. I have been harsh on Moore who is a good player and Foley is a great player and leader. We would never have said this about some of the players I didn't include 10 years ago or so. The only reason I might consider trading Foley is because I don't want us to develop too quickly so we have a team that is threatening but hasn't bottomed out properly so we don't have the overall talent across the board and field so we can realistically look the players in the eye and so you can threaten power teams in 5 years for the premiership

 

[coke_zero]

Taylor for example promises the world but he might not bulk up or get everything together so their are a lot of bridges to cross.

the same was said about Connors. looks like we did the right thing by him and now he is getting in the bests at coburg every week, hopefully he can use that form when he comes back to AFL. so right now it looks like we have turned Connors which Wallace could not do. hopefully we can do the same to Taylor. Also Goo i think had some problems? has done well this year and will get plenty of games in the second half of the year, not sure if the club helped him or it was himself.

 

[bigstyletiger]

Moore, Thursfield, Dea
Deledio, McGuane, Connors
???????, Martin, Newman
Taylor, Riewoldt, Nason
??????, Griffiths, Morton
Foll: Vickery, Foley, Cotchin
Inter: Graham, Post, Jackson,????

I've left a few gaps for the following reasons.
- I expect a few guys currently on the list to surprise or force their way in. Grimes, Astbury, Hicks, Webberley etc
- We will have two top 10 draft picks minimum and most likely three picks in the 20's come in over the next 2 drafts. Would not be surprise to see a Jack Darling/Andrew Gaff/Luke Parker etc come in immediately.
- With Connors and Deledio on the half back line we have some serious skill in the back half and apart from looking to add key position we should be looking for skilled midfielders. Jackson had 11/12 inside 50's on Sunday so we obviously need to spread our inside 50's amongst players with greater delivery to win games of footy.

 

[TigerTime88]

B: ????---Gourdis---Thursfield
HB:Newman,---Post---Conners
C: Deledio---Cotchin---Collins
HF: Astbury---Griffiths---Morton
FF: Nahas---Riewoldt---Taylor
Fol:Vickery,Martin, Foley

Bench: Edwards,Tambling,???? ,Browne

really need a good back pocket who can stop a Small forward

Also i'm hoping we performed a miracle last draft and got 4 really good players

IMO my ideal side for round 15-22 would be:

FULL BACK: Newman, THE GOO, Moore

Newman: Showed us what he could do last week and still has a good 5 years left.

Gourdis: Dominating VFL will be a gun FB IMO. Quick, huge leap...strong, tall, footballing smarts = all you need

Moore: Good 3rd tall man and has decent skills

HALF BACK: Connors, McGuane or Thursfield, Deledio

Connors: Was playing great footy before his indiscretion. To his credit he has also come back and is dominating the VFL. Heaps of talent I see him having a future at Richmond for a while pending offield actions.

Thursfield/McGuane: IMO only one of these guys can get a gig once Goo comes in. Although they did both hold Buddy and Roughy well the other day. I think McGuane is good trade bait even though I do like him.

Lids: This is his posse. 35 touches on the weekend should play the next 50 games of his career right here. Once our midfield is strong enough he may be able to go either possie aka Luke Hodge.

CENTER LINE: Collins, Cotchin, Edwards

Collins: Love this kid. love his run and his skills. He had so much love last year it seems people have dropped off this year. I still think he will make a fantastic wingman.

Cotchin: Star. Saturday was his best game for the club. Shows what he can do with some match fitness and also with Nathan Foley, Dustin Martin, Cotchin and even Jackson all playing in the same midfield.

Edwards: Was never a HBF. Always looked good as a forward pocket and has found his spot is HFF/Wing.

HF: Nason, Griffiths, Astbury

Nason: This kid was a great pick up at pic71. Works had and has great skills. Reminds me alot of Dale Thomas, hard running player.

Griffiths: Is the key...play him FF or CHF wherever...he is the key...

Astbury: Has shown great lead up ability...will play a traditional CHF role but threw him on the HFF.

FF:Morton, Riewoldt, Nahas

Morton: Gun...talented goalkicker and he does like to kick them. Will excell further with our improving midfield and forward line. GET HIM BACK IN THE TEAM ASAP.

Riewoldt: Will only get better with Griffiths and Asbtury increasing size.

Nahas: Games like the Freo game shows what he can do. Needs to get more consistent.

Vickery, Foley, Martin

Vikcery: Probably not ready for ruck but this is sort of the team going forward. Should make a decent ruckman, just needs to work on getting the ball more and putting on the KG's.

Foley: Our most important player IMO. His clearance work is exceptional as he doesn[t just clear it but hits handballs out to teammates in space. His outside game is also good. Grade A gun and makes a difference to Cotch and Martin.

Martin: GUN. As his tank builds wow...needs to get some more outside ball to use his kicking.

Int:Jackson, GUS or Polak, Webberley, Tambling

Jackson: Will benefit from being around our A grade mids

Gus/Polak: Whoever is performing best as second ruck gets the gig.

Webberley: Like the look of this kid. Seems to be able to step straight onto the wing or HBF at AFL level and perform.

Tambling: Still has plenty of talent. Underdone over pre season and ahving a bad run of injuries. Cut him some slack for now. At full fitness in a good side you will see more of 09 tambling.

I like the look of that side. If you add to the fact we get pick 4 this year and then potentially pick 4 and 6 next year we are looking good.

I think with Pick 4 we should go with a gun mid. Best available obviously however the further we strengthen our engine room the better. Next year again should just be midfielders.

With pick 27/28 this year go best available.

We actually look to be building some future depth.

 

[JimmyRecard]

agree with all that acme

i dont prescribe to the collins love in i think hes serviceable but will be gone in a couple of years.. aka replaced by pick 4 this year.

other than that good side for the back half of the year

 

[SkyHigh]

FB: Moore, Thursfield, Newman
HB: Connors, Gourdis, Deledio
C: Webberly, Cotchin, Jackson
HF: Nason, Astbury, Nahas
FF: Morton, Reidwoldt, Vickery

Followers: Graham, Foley, Martin
Int: McGuane, Collins/ Edwards, Polak/ Griffiths, Tambling/ Pick 4

I'd like to see Graham and Vickery swapping in the pocket, just to take so much pressure off of Reidwoldt. I reckon Gourdis would be better at CHB because the run he can create along with Deledio and Connors. Deledio swapping with Martin a possibility. I like what I've seen of Webberly so far and think he is just going to get better. Team could change but so far this is what the team I like.

 

[TigerTime88]

agree with all that acme

i dont prescribe to the collins love in i think hes serviceable but will be gone in a couple of years.. aka replaced by pick 4 this year.

other than that good side for the back half of the year

Yeah he is certainly no lock, however I think he has a few things going for him:

1. He doesn't have a problem finding the ball. Only getting it 20 odd times a game atm but seems to get touches quite easily.

2. Showed last year he can kick a goal

3. I have just seen a few glimpses where he hits a bullet pass. I liken him to our version of Clinton YOung although slightly different as Young pumps it 70 metres.

I hope he comes good because if he does the worst he will be is a good depth player.

 

[bigstyletiger]

I think the key is drafting well over the next two years. We really should continue on down the youth path and not get sucked in by the Barlow's and Podsiadly's. If we can add two pick 4's and a pick 6 and we are smart with the use of our three picks in the high 20's we will have a seriously talented midfield and some depth. Depth is a massive key as the Hawks and now the Saints are showing. It's fine to point at Cotch, Martin, Foley and say we have the makings of an elite midfield but as Foley's absence has shown if one or more of these guys go down, without serious depth it is very damaging.

Competition for spots can also not be underestimated. Individuals with the required mental toughness lift immeasurably when they know there is competition for their spot.

 

[Madtiger2006]

FB: Moore, Thursfield, Newman
HB: Connors, Gourdis, Deledio
C: Webberly, Cotchin, Jackson
HF: Nason, Astbury, Nahas
FF: Morton, Reidwoldt, Vickery

Followers: Graham, Foley, Martin
Int: McGuane, Collins/ Edwards, Polak/ Griffiths, Tambling/ Pick 4

I'd like to see Graham and Vickery swapping in the pocket, just to take so much pressure off of Reidwoldt. I reckon Gourdis would be better at CHB because the run he can create along with Deledio and Connors. Deledio swapping with Martin a possibility. I like what I've seen of Webberly so far and think he is just going to get better. Team could change but so far this is what the team I like.

You forgot J. Post.
Otherwise good effort for a Saints fan

 

[Mr Magic]

I think the key is how we draft in the next three years. 2012 in particular is critical . I know is is contradictory to immediate success but if we bottom out for these three years our prospects for the future go up five fold due to draft possibilities in 2012.

Regarding Hawthorn, I believe there midfield is one of the most over rated in the comp. In my mind , although deserved, they were lucky to beat Geelong in the cup final, so without pouring water on the flames of excitement, Hawthorn were miserable at times on the weekend and I wouldn't read a lot into the match although our effort was great and we really could have won deservedly so.

We are not a normal bottom team in the sense we are not that bad as some in the past like some have suggested. Comparing us to previous bottom teams is ludicrious and statistics can be used to prove anything. We need to keep our head and balance our approach to development and the plan to win a premiership in 5-7 years. You have to remember apart from a few teams it is a very even comp these days with counter balances like the draw so on, which give the appearance of teams being closer in terms of ability. Teams like the tigers who have missed draft bonuses recently, are few and far between these days.

I know Gale said finals in 3 years but IMO that is getting ahead of ourselves despite the fact we could have a great team in the making already. It is important for all players to maximise the opportunity to get maximum benefit from the current situation in the next 3 years at least so players like Lids and Bling know for sure they will be contesting a premiership, not just finals , beyond 4 years. This isn't just about half measures , go all in or don't go at all I say. If it means sticking Foley in the back pocket for a year to let the kids develop so be it!! The bottom line is it is easy to make the finals such is the system these days. In fact I would say it is easy to make the finals and 7 times as hard to win a premiership. In fact I would even go as far to say any club who has finished 6-8 at the end of the year hasn't achieved anything at all!!!

If GWS and GC struggle particularly hard in 2012, 2013 and 2014 , it isn't a possibility, but an absolute given they(at least one of them) will win at least one premiership by 2019 at a minimum given the advantage they will have received. So we need to not cut off our nose despite our face when it comes to strategy , list assessment and providing our players and supporters what we all want, the genuine opportunity for premiership glory. It all comes down to player/supporter heart and drive in the moment but at the moment we need to concentrate on getting out team to a point were they have a realistic ball park chance in terms of cattle to go for glory!!!

 

[SHIGHT BLOKE]

Let's say we get 2-3 more years into our kids, giving them an extra 50ish games and bigger bodies. What would our ideal side be (with who we have now) and what would we be lacking?

B: Newman---McGuane---Dea
HB: Deledio---Post---????
C: ????---Cotchin---Jackson
HF: Nahas---Astbury---Morton
FF: ????---Riewoldt---????

Ruck: Vickery---Martin---Tambling


I haven't seen many Richmond games this year and I'm interested in seeing who has an opinion on the potential of our yougn list.

Don't rate Thursfield? He's more important to our side than he's given credit for.

 

[SkyHigh]

Thanks Madtiger.. Yeh i forgot about Post.. Im a Saints fan but have a soft spot for the Tigers..

 

[bigstyletiger]

I think the key is how we draft in the next three years. 2012 in particular is critical . I know is is contradictory to immediate success but if we bottom out for these three years our prospects for the future go up five fold due to draft possibilities in 2012.

Regarding Hawthorn, I believe there midfield is one of the most over rated in the comp. In my mind , although deserved, they were lucky to beat Geelong in the cup final, so without pouring water on the flames of excitement, Hawthorn were miserable at times on the weekend and I wouldn't read a lot into the match although our effort was great and we really could have won deservedly so.

We are not a normal bottom team in the sense we are not that bad as some in the past like some have suggested. Comparing us to previous bottom teams is ludicrious and statistics can be used to prove anything. We need to keep our head and balance our approach to development and the plan to win a premiership in 5-7 years. You have to remember apart from a few teams it is a very even comp these days with counter balances like the draw so on, which give the appearance of teams being closer in terms of ability. Teams like the tigers who have missed draft bonuses recently, are few and far between these days.

I know Gale said finals in 3 years but IMO that is getting ahead of ourselves despite the fact we could have a great team in the making already. It is important for all players to maximise the opportunity to get maximum benefit from the current situation in the next 3 years at least so players like Lids and Bling know for sure they will be contesting a premiership, not just finals , beyond 4 years. This isn't just about half measures , go all in or don't go at all I say. If it means sticking Foley in the back pocket for a year to let the kids develop so be it!! The bottom line is it is easy to make the finals such is the system these days. In fact I would say it is easy to make the finals and 7 times as hard to win a premiership. In fact I would even go as far to say any club who has finished 6-8 at the end of the year hasn't achieved anything at all!!!

If GWS and GC struggle particularly hard in 2012, 2013 and 2014 , it isn't a possibility, but an absolute given they(at least one of them) will win at least one premiership by 2019 at a minimum given the advantage they will have received. So we need to not cut off our nose despite our face when it comes to strategy , list assessment and providing our players and supporters what we all want, the genuine opportunity for premiership glory. It all comes down to player/supporter heart and drive in the moment but at the moment we need to concentrate on getting out team to a point were they have a realistic ball park chance in terms of cattle to go for glory!!!

That's a good assessment Mr Magic. We cannot lose sight of the ultimate goal and we must strategise with this firmly in mind. Aiming for anything less, planning for anything less is unacceptable.

 

[TigerTime88]

To be honest I think we will probably win more than 4 games next year. Hardwick is not the guy that will tank and thus we will only get one pick. Also I don;t think we will be finishing last in 2012 given improvement in players like Griffiths, Asbtury, Martin and Cotchin...If we were to have 3 years on the bottom surely we would lose guys like Lids and Foley ect thus I can't see it happening...