Our List

[Yoda_]

So people still over rating our list? or are we simply being exposed to not having the 'depth' that we have been speaking of?

We brought in Slattery, Stanton and Davey (albeit as the sub) and all had minimal impact covering for our major ball winers, Jobe Watson and Heath Hocking.

Saturday night was the perfect opportunity for younger guys like Ben Howlett, Jake Melksham, Kyle Reimers to all put in an above average for the year.

They have all been below average for the past few weeks, not going by possessions like some peple like to go by, but the impact they are having on games.

Howlett has been ok, but was somewhat starstruck being thrust into the spotlight of being our number 1 midfielder on the weekend, Jake Melksham continues to pick up numbers out on the wings and has some eerily similar attributes to some bloke wearing number 5 whilst Kyle Reimers has hardly seen the ball (31 possessions in 4 games, taking into account the Gold Coast drubbing, somewhat inflating his statistics).

With the rest of the list, do we really have depth?

Mark Williams, the guy we gave up a first round draft pick for (I know we got pick 22 or what ever, but last time I checked, we would have had a better, if not as good opportunity to pick a decent player, a better spread of players to choose from, but hey, hindsight is a wonderful thing ).

What about that other bloke, Brent Prismal. We thought he was a steal parting with pick 39, truth is, I cam see why he played a lot of football in the front half for the Cats.

The deadwood on our list is astounding, we are laughing for sitting with a 5 - 2 - 1 record, our list has played above itself, our depth testing in the last two weeks and will only get harder with the year going on.

Our rookies have been below poor this year. Jay Neagle (why have we bothered with contracts, 6 months more and he is done), Tyson Slattery had been good, but I have realised you need to be able to pin point passes more than once every 10 kicks, Michael Quinn is simply not up to it and will probably be back in Ireland when the finals are done, Taite Silverlock has not returned to the form that saw him closer than Stuart Crameri to senior elevation last year.

Four players on our rookie list (Quinn, Silverlock, Neagle, T.Slattery) that are all fighting for a spot on our list next year, Darcy Daniher, Anthony Long, Brent Prismal and Rick Dyson all fighting to stay on our list next year, whilst we have all seen, on show for the wider football public that lack of intensity that Brent Stanton has brought to the game, whilst Angus Monfries has again, stagnated in his impact/output on games for season 2011 (15 disposals per game, career average 15 disposals per game) with his one trick pony again being exposed by a better drilled outfit.

Truth be told, we lack beyond our best 25, we have been exposed, the 'decisions' to contract guys like Reimers, Mark Williams, Alwyn Davey and even the highly rated David Myers to the end of 2012 will come back to bite us on the rear one.

Any ways, what do people think of our list? Are we in a good position or are we not?

 

[footycool]

Why so negative?
We are 5-1-3 going into the bye.

 

[Sir James]

Why so negative?
We are 5-1-3 going into the bye.

 

[BigPete38]

So people still over rating our list? or are we simply being exposed to not having the 'depth' that we have been speaking of?

We brought in Slattery, Stanton and Davey (albeit as the sub) and all had minimal impact covering for our major ball winers, Jobe Watson and Heath Hocking.

Saturday night was the perfect opportunity for younger guys like Ben Howlett, Jake Melksham, Kyle Reimers to all put in an above average for the year.

They have all been below average for the past few weeks, not going by possessions like some peple like to go by, but the impact they are having on games.

Howlett has been ok, but was somewhat starstruck being thrust into the spotlight of being our number 1 midfielder on the weekend, Jake Melksham continues to pick up numbers out on the wings and has some eerily similar attributes to some bloke wearing number 5 whilst Kyle Reimers has hardly seen the ball (31 possessions in 4 games, taking into account the Gold Coast drubbing, somewhat inflating his statistics).

With the rest of the list, do we really have depth?

Mark Williams, the guy we gave up a first round draft pick for (I know we got pick 22 or what ever, but last time I checked, we would have had a better, if not as good opportunity to pick a decent player, a better spread of players to choose from, but hey, hindsight is a wonderful thing ).

What about that other bloke, Brent Prismal. We thought he was a steal parting with pick 39, truth is, I cam see why he played a lot of football in the front half for the Cats.

The deadwood on our list is astounding, we are laughing for sitting with a 5 - 2 - 1 record, our list has played above itself, our depth testing in the last two weeks and will only get harder with the year going on.

Our rookies have been below poor this year. Jay Neagle (why have we bothered with contracts, 6 months more and he is done), Tyson Slattery had been good, but I have realised you need to be able to pin point passes more than once every 10 kicks, Michael Quinn is simply not up to it and will probably be back in Ireland when the finals are done, Taite Silverlock has not returned to the form that saw him closer than Stuart Crameri to senior elevation last year.

Four players on our rookie list (Quinn, Silverlock, Neagle, T.Slattery) that are all fighting for a spot on our list next year, Darcy Daniher, Anthony Long, Brent Prismal and Rick Dyson all fighting to stay on our list next year, whilst we have all seen, on show for the wider football public that lack of intensity that Brent Stanton has brought to the game, whilst Angus Monfries has again, stagnated in his impact/output on games for season 2011 (15 disposals per game, career average 15 disposals per game) with his one trick pony again being exposed by a better drilled outfit.

Truth be told, we lack beyond our best 25, we have been exposed, the 'decisions' to contract guys like Reimers, Mark Williams, Alwyn Davey and even the highly rated David Myers to the end of 2012 will come back to bite us on the rear one.

Any ways, what do people think of our list? Are we in a good position or are we not?

Well said. I think myers will be handy and davey if he can string some games together but at the moment it just isnt happening from him. We must be keeping darcy on the list to get Joe Daniher because he is a shocker. On the flip side we have 5.5 wins and SHOULD beat Melb, Freo and nth in the next month.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

You can't bat 10 deep. It's just not feasible with the draft, salary cap, etc, etc

Players who could have come in on Saturday to do a job:

Watson
Hocking
Hurley
Pears
Welsh
Winderlich
Dempsey
Dyson

These guys have exposed form at AFL level over a period of time. Forget about the kids for now but we have pretty good depth.

Our list is tracking beautifully. No reason why we can't aim for the flag next year.

 

[Duckworth]

Some players are hard to get a handle on. Who would have predicted Crameri coming on like he has. Lonergan and Hocking were slow starters too. Any player could have the penny drop.

Prismall, Long, Slattery or Silverlock have all been no worse than the players I mentioned above in their previous years.

I guess what I'm trying to say is cheer up. The players will be better off for the bye. Time to temper the expectations, and enjoy the improvement that we have seen since last year. We have leapfrogged a few teams in development, but there is still some way to go.

 

[Yoda_]

You can't bat 10 deep. It's just not feasible with the draft, salary cap, etc, etc

Players who could have come in on Saturday to do a job:

Watson
Hocking
Hurley
Pears
Welsh
Winderlich
Dempsey
Dyson

These guys have exposed form at AFL level over a period of time. Forget about the kids for now but we have pretty good depth.

Our list is tracking beautifully. No reason why we can't aim for the flag next year.

Kelvin

What I am trying to say is, our list is woeful after the first 22 picked, yes we have a couple of guys who have come in and done a handy job but after that we have some very ordinary players getting games in the seniors.

We have a lot of dead wood that is going to hold back the development of our list.

There is one reason why we can't press for a flag next year. Depth!!

Collingwood may be exposed this year if they manage to pick up some injuries having delisted a lot of there depth last year (Medhurst, Lockyer, O'Bree etc), we are simply stagnating in our list.

Hurley went down, who has come in the play as a KPF? Carlisle, oh wait, Jay.. oh wait.. No thats ruck, a ruckmen. how is that working for us?

I am sick and tired of us trying to improvise on our list, something that seriously needs to be addressed.

 

[GoldenboyHird_5]

So people still over rating our list? or are we simply being exposed to not having the 'depth' that we have been speaking of?

We brought in Slattery, Stanton and Davey (albeit as the sub) and all had minimal impact covering for our major ball winers, Jobe Watson and Heath Hocking.

Saturday night was the perfect opportunity for younger guys like Ben Howlett, Jake Melksham, Kyle Reimers to all put in an above average for the year.

They have all been below average for the past few weeks, not going by possessions like some peple like to go by, but the impact they are having on games.

Howlett has been ok, but was somewhat starstruck being thrust into the spotlight of being our number 1 midfielder on the weekend, Jake Melksham continues to pick up numbers out on the wings and has some eerily similar attributes to some bloke wearing number 5 whilst Kyle Reimers has hardly seen the ball (31 possessions in 4 games, taking into account the Gold Coast drubbing, somewhat inflating his statistics).

With the rest of the list, do we really have depth?

Mark Williams, the guy we gave up a first round draft pick for (I know we got pick 22 or what ever, but last time I checked, we would have had a better, if not as good opportunity to pick a decent player, a better spread of players to choose from, but hey, hindsight is a wonderful thing ).

What about that other bloke, Brent Prismal. We thought he was a steal parting with pick 39, truth is, I cam see why he played a lot of football in the front half for the Cats.

The deadwood on our list is astounding, we are laughing for sitting with a 5 - 2 - 1 record, our list has played above itself, our depth testing in the last two weeks and will only get harder with the year going on.

Our rookies have been below poor this year. Jay Neagle (why have we bothered with contracts, 6 months more and he is done), Tyson Slattery had been good, but I have realised you need to be able to pin point passes more than once every 10 kicks, Michael Quinn is simply not up to it and will probably be back in Ireland when the finals are done, Taite Silverlock has not returned to the form that saw him closer than Stuart Crameri to senior elevation last year.

Four players on our rookie list (Quinn, Silverlock, Neagle, T.Slattery) that are all fighting for a spot on our list next year, Darcy Daniher, Anthony Long, Brent Prismal and Rick Dyson all fighting to stay on our list next year, whilst we have all seen, on show for the wider football public that lack of intensity that Brent Stanton has brought to the game, whilst Angus Monfries has again, stagnated in his impact/output on games for season 2011 (15 disposals per game, career average 15 disposals per game) with his one trick pony again being exposed by a better drilled outfit.

Truth be told, we lack beyond our best 25, we have been exposed, the 'decisions' to contract guys like Reimers, Mark Williams, Alwyn Davey and even the highly rated David Myers to the end of 2012 will come back to bite us on the rear one.

Any ways, what do people think of our list? Are we in a good position or are we not?

Been saying it for a few years now.

If we were ever going to win a flag with this list, it would be the 'grinding Sydney-style' premiership rather than a dynasty and period of dominance that we should expect when planning for flag assaults.

Not enough class, poise, game-breaking ability on the list in terms of youth, save for Hurley and Heppell.

Overall, it's a battling list that 9/10 with a solid game plan, will put in the hard yards and try to their utmost capacity.

Personally, I think we're at least a year and a half behind the Blues, which strangely ant disagrees.

Over the years we just have not had regular access to the early picks that get you kids like Cotchin, Martin, Murphy, Hill etc.

That, along with some insane drafting during the Sheedy era, ensures that we're stuck with the list we have at the moment.

 

[Yoda_]

Over the years we just have not had regular access to the early picks that get you kids like Cotchin, Martin, Murphy, Hill etc.

That, along with some insane drafting during the Sheedy era, ensures that we're stuck with the list we have at the moment.

Yeah, we have had access to the 'early' picks, they are just not out and out superstars like other teams have.

Angus Monfries, Paddy Ryder, Brent Stanton, David Myers allwere selected in the first round. Would they walk into other sides best 22's? Probably not.

I do agree, the drafting of Sheedy's last couple of years along with the stagnating careers of some players has certainly left our list in a bit of a rut.

I still think we may see a bit of a turn over of our list at the end of the year, if not, Hird obviously rates our list.

 

[ant555]

Every list has a bottom end.
Have a close look at Collingwoods list. They do not go far past the 27th or so player.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Kelvin

What I am trying to say is, our list is woeful after the first 22 picked, yes we have a couple of guys who have come in and done a handy job but after that we have some very ordinary players getting games in the seniors.

We have a lot of dead wood that is going to hold back the development of our list.

There is one reason why we can't press for a flag next year. Depth!!

Collingwood may be exposed this year if they manage to pick up some injuries having delisted a lot of there depth last year (Medhurst, Lockyer, O'Bree etc), we are simply stagnating in our list.

Hurley went down, who has come in the play as a KPF? Carlisle, oh wait, Jay.. oh wait.. No thats ruck, a ruckmen. how is that working for us?

I am sick and tired of us trying to improvise on our list, something that seriously needs to be addressed.

Yeah.. and if Travis Cloke breaks down who comes in and plays that role for Collingwood? No one.. they are stuffed. Don't tell me Dawes coz he just sits in the square and can be easily stopped. I'd rather have Hille than Dawes at FF.

Diff team same situation. When your best players are injured you cannot cover.

You can't bat 2 and 3 deep at CHF.

How is our list stagnating?

Hurley, Crameri, Hille, Ryder, Leroy, Zaka forward are options for the next few years. Add developing Gumbleton and Carlisle and we have something to work with.

We have Dempsey to come back next year, Heppel to grow, Jetta, Zaka, Melksham will get better.

Bullshit thread after one loss.

If we did not send out Jobe back onto the field last week and he was ok to play against the Tiges we would have won and won comfortably.

We'd be sitting at 6-1-2. Does your opinion of the list change because we are now 5-1-3?

 

[sacka]

Why so negative?
We are 5-1-3 going into the bye.

Same time last year we were 4-5 and look how that finished.

@HFF, i see were you're coming from but i dont think it is as bad as you say, pull the spine(hurley watson pears hocking) out of anything and it doesn't work as good.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Angus Monfries, Paddy Ryder, Brent Stanton, David Myers allwere selected in the first round. Would they walk into other sides best 22's? Probably not.

Absolute bullshit.

Monfries would get games ahead of guys like Mcaffer, Blair, etc at Collingwood

Ryder is getting better numbers than Leigh Brown but apparently he's having a shit year.

Brent Stanton would be in anyone's 22.

David Myers has started slowly but is now coming on. He'll be alright in after another pre season and 20 more games under the belt.

 

[sacka]

Hurley, Crameri, Hille, Ryder, Leroy, Zaka forward are options for the next few years. Add developing Gumbleton and Carlisle and we have something to work with.

Gumby pfft i truly think the bloke will be moved on sooner rather than later, he has been pushed further back by crameri and now ryder playing forward, and with carlisle coming through i cant see him impacting on the side in the future

If we did not send out Jobe back onto the field last week and he was ok to play against the Tiges we would have won and won comfortably.

You cant say 1 bloke would change the game that much, Jobe alone couldn't of improved our effinciency and our dispossal into the forward 50 enough for us to win, because thats what lost us the game.

 

[LeeARM]

Our depth was good enough when it was Pears, Winderlich, Dempsey, Slattery, Gumbleton and Welsh out but it's a much bigger test when you add Watson, Hocking and Hurley to that while only bringing Slattery back in.

Although I do think we need to add more class to the team to push out some of our solid contributors from the best 22.

 

[Yoda_]

Yeah.. and if Travis Cloke breaks down who comes in and plays that role for Collingwood? No one.. they are stuffed. Don't tell me Dawes coz he just sits in the square and can be easily stopped. I'd rather have Hille than Dawes at FF.

Diff team same situation. When your best players are injured you cannot cover.

You can't bat 2 and 3 deep at CHF.

How is our list stagnating?

Hurley, Crameri, Hille, Ryder, Leroy, Zaka forward are options for the next few years. Add developing Gumbleton and Carlisle and we have something to work with.

We have Dempsey to come back next year, Heppel to grow, Jetta, Zaka, Melksham will get better.

Bullshit thread after one loss.

If we did not send out Jobe back onto the field last week and he was ok to play against the Tiges we would have won and won comfortably.

We'd be sitting at 6-1-2. Does your opinion of the list change because we are now 5-1-3?

Kelvin

I am talking about now.. Not what if's, when's but now. How are Dempsey, Winderlich, Hurley going to help us on the weekend when they are injured? How was Hocking suppose to help us when he was on the sidelines for doing a dumb thing like he did?

For your information Kelvin

We had 7 players in the VFL on the weekend who have had at least 3 seasons at the top level.

I am sick of our list trying to improvise with players. If Neagle was not on our list, we would have had a young forward to come in to play seniors, instead, Jay is sitting on our list, taking it away from a young man wanting an opportunity.

Oh, and if Cloke went down, they would probably play Tarrant forward and allow young Keefe to come in and play down back, or even back in their teams ability to shut down opposition forwards as a unit.

Absolute bullshit.

Monfries would get games ahead of guys like Mcaffer, Blair, etc at Collingwood

Ryder is getting better numbers than Leigh Brown but apparently he's having a shit year.

Brent Stanton would be in anyone's 22.

David Myers has started slowly but is now coming on. He'll be alright in after another pre season and 20 more games under the belt.

Don't know much about Collingwood's list do you Kelvin?

Monfries is a one trick pony, Blair is one of the leading Collingwood goal kickers, can rove up forward, can float through the midfield, can play as a hit up target, has been spotted in defence helping out. Wher else can Angus play other than as a lead up forward inside 50?

Brent Stanton has had his reputation shattered by a poor start to the season. Everyone can surely tell his confidence is shot.

Paddy Ryder is a victim of our high hopes, Leigh Brown is doing his job, Paddy is, but we want more, do you blame us?

David Myers, as I have said previously, is simply keeping Pears spot warm until he is right to go. Then we can see Myers play from half back or on ball. `

 

[citizen-erased]

I think we're a little over the half-full/half-empty point, which isnt too bad.

I see our list as a lot like the Pies' list pre-flag. They didnt/dont have a lot of stars but play disciplined, structured and uncomprimising footy.

Gotta remember that we wouldnt have the fitness into a lot of guys that the top clubs do and we played a pretty big nab cup. Pies were able to take us in the end but they were still cruising to a big extent.
So its been close to 3 solid months now where a lot of the comp have only been going full tilt for 2.

Our injury/form line is a little off from the start of the season as well

Injuries - Welsh, Dempsey, Winderlich, Gumbleton, Watson, Hurley, Slattery (fitness is down after the time off), Pears.

Form - Ryder, Stanton, Hille, Prismall, Davey, NLM.

Thats 14/best 22 down on form or fitness or injured.
Add another one in Hocking suspended

The depth isnt bad.
I wouldnt be giving us an A for it yet, but when guys like Lonergan, Heppell, Hibberd, Crameri, Myers, Hardingham, Monfries, Zaharakis, Melksham, Jetta and Bellchambers can step up in their absence, and keep a few out due to good form, we are travelling alright.

A lot of over-reacting to the tigers loss.
They are a much improved team.

We have still beaten two 2010 preliminary finalists, drew with a top 4 contender down on the bench for most the game, notched up our first away win in a while, run very close to the swans, took down a dangerous Eagles outfit, showed great hunger in smashing the suns and turned around the worst Anzac Day performance ever to give an improved reigning premier a run for their money

We're not doing that badly

 

[yaco55]

Not sure that I am too worried about our depth.

Who is currently injured

Watson
Hocking
Hurley
Welsh
Long
Daniher
Winderlich
Dempsey
Carlisle
Pears

Who are in our best 22

Watson
Hocking
pears
Hurley

and one of Dempsey/Winderlich

At the moment probably only have 3 or 4 players at Bendigo who could do an effective job - But if we had no injuries ( wish ful thanking ) we would have at least 10.

And if we look at 1st, 2nd and 3rd year players

Heppell - Gun
Steinberg - not ready this year
Ross - ditto
Davis - ditto
Browne - may get a game

2nd year players

Melksham - struggling but has ability
Colyer - can do a job
Carlisle - progressing nicely
Long - Cant get on the park

3rd year players

Hurley - Gun


So looking at the list of first to third year players - I would expect 6 to be regular players - with 2 being GUNS.

Think the list is well balanced.

The more important question is whether tough decisions will be made at the end of 2011.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

One of Dempsey/Winderlich?

Either a running backman OR a defensive forward? Both of whom were in the 18 when everyone was fit?

That's the stupidest comment in this thread yaco, and **** me if that doesn't take some doing.

 

[lemon chicken]

Im gonna pretend that the point trying to be made here was our rookie list has a bit of imbalance about it and i would agree, but as far as the main list is concerned i struggle to find 3 delistings at this point and that leads me to believe its in decent shape. Would love to swap Neagle with a mature aged midfielder that could come in for games like the weekend.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

Incidentally, Rd 1 was the best 22 at that stage minus Pears and Slattery. Sine then:

Dempsey ---> Hibberd
Hurley ---> Bellchambers
Watson ---> Slattery
Hocking --> Davey
Winderlich ---> Reimers

We've done pretty well with replacing our injured players.

 

[Slattery_20]

We brought in Slattery, Stanton and Davey (albeit as the sub) and all had minimal impact covering for our major ball winers, Jobe Watson and Heath Hocking.

We smashed them in the clearances, 50-22 or something. Lonergan, McVeigh, Howlett best 3 ball winners on the park.
You talk some absolute rubbish.

What I am trying to say is, our list is woeful after the first 22 picked,

Possibly the most self-evident thing ever said on this site.

yes we have a couple of guys who have come in and done a handy job but after that we have some very ordinary players getting games in the seniors.

Who?

We have a lot of dead wood that is going to hold back the development of our list.

Yep it's all Dyson/Prismall/Williams/Neagles' fault... they were woeful. If only Hepp/Crameri/Hardi/TBell/Jetta could get a game in front of... oh hang on.

we are simply stagnating in our list.

What does that even mean?

Hurley went down, who has come in the play as a KPF? Carlisle, oh wait, Jay.. oh wait.. No thats ruck, a ruckmen. how is that working for us?

Erm Hille??? Clearly the form big forward the other night.

I am sick and tired of us trying to improvise on our list, something that seriously needs to be addressed.

What does that even mean???


HFF: We all, by now, have realised that talking about trading guys and drafting VFL players, to you, far far far more interesting than actually watching football.
But:
Do not expect more than a couple of others to agree.

 

[Slattery_20]

Monfries is a one trick pony, Blair is one of the leading Collingwood goal kickers, can rove up forward, can float through the midfield, can play as a hit up target, has been spotted in defence helping out. Wher else can Angus play other than as a lead up forward inside 50?

Defence? Spare me, he's 3 foot tall.

Monfries has spent time on ball every game since GC.
You're talking rubbish. Again.

 

[Hencho]

Stupid OP.

Our depth to 30-35 is reasonable, sure the ass end of the list isn't great but which AFL list is. You can't expect to have 6-8 best 22 players out and have the same output.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and nor will be our next premiership side. Get a clue.

 

[Slattery_20]

I'd also like to point out one thing. Which has been obvious from day dot of this coaching mob.
They specifically avoided the 'rebuild' route, to have a look at as many as possible.

ie Dyson, TSlatts, Davey, Prismall, Williams, NLM, Lonergan and so on who were borderline, plus Neagle.
At the end of the year, 5-6 of those guys will be gone, Lonergan alone has really stamped himself 'safe'; NLM could go either way, the others pretty much gone.

I will be very, very surprised if this thread isn't bumped at the end of the year, just to prove "see I was right all along we did have X Y Z list faults".
Just reminding y'all, for the record, that 'suck it and see' was the plan all along.