List Mgmt. Our Trade/FA, Suburban & Country Town Thread

[sr36]

You need to take off your rose-coloured glasses and have a good look around the league - virtually every other side has several 19-22 yo players locked into their starting line-ups and playing very prominent roles. We don’t because ours just aren’t good enough, thanks to years of draft/trading/salary mismanagement.

1 Nick Daicos trumps the 3 at other clubs.

 

[LuckyLee]

1 Nick Daicos trumps the 3 at other clubs.

No he doesn’t. In 2025 and 2026 he’ll need half a dozen mates of same age and A-grade quality around him but we just don’t have them and lack the draft picks to get them.

Have you seen what Brisbane, Sydney, GWS and Gold Coast have in their cupboards? Closer to home even Finals contenders Melbourne, Bulldogs and Geelong have recruited several A-grade kids who have come in and made a difference straight away.


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[manicpie]

They’re B-graders. If they were A-graders they’d have pushed their way in at the expense of our aging stars and fringe players like WHE and Lipinski. But they haven’t.

You need to take off your rose-coloured glasses and have a good look around the league - virtually every other side has several 19-22 yo players locked into their starting line-ups and playing very prominent roles. We don’t because ours just aren’t good enough, thanks to years of draft/trading/salary mismanagement.

I think you should brace yourself for the possibility of a few years of pain when Pendles, Sidey, Mitchell, Howe, Checkers and Jamie have all hung up the boots.


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It's probably more a case of us going the Geelong route and top up with with mature age players. We haven't been in the drafting position to get these 19 -22yo players. We got a flag and this year isn't out of the question. When we are in a better position to hit the draft, then we probably will. I think there's enough talent in the VFL to keep us up for quite a while yet. Sometimes we can look at our situation and think, we're stuffed going forward but things change so quickly in football. I really think we can get another flag or 2 in the next 5 years

 

[sr36]

No he doesn’t. In 2025 and 2026 he’ll need half a dozen mates of same age and A-grade quality around him but we just don’t have them and lack the draft picks to get them.

Have you seen what Brisbane, Sydney, GWS and Gold Coast have in their cupboards? Closer to home even Finals contenders Melbourne, Bulldogs and Geelong have recruited several A-grade kids who have come in and made a difference straight away.


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It's a given that the Northern clubs are going to stay up the top for a long time. Their academies are working.

Geelong? Give me a package deal of their under 22s that we'd trade for Nick? Dogs? Likewise.

 

[Axl the great]

It seems Howe has a 16 game clause in his contract that would allow him to play on in 2025 if he wanted to. But he'll have open discussions with fly as he goes through the year, depending on if he feels he has much left to give.

Howey won’t go on selfishly, he’s not that sort of guy.
The issue we have here is Murphy out means Howe and Moore must be more accountable, Howe is not great one on one and he still positions himself like a spare when he’s playing on a direct opposition.
Despite what some think Murphy is not the spare who comes off to intercept all the time, they all do it equally it’s just Murphy does it better.

 

[Axl the great]

We could reunite the Macrea brothers for Bussy.

I like Jack and think he’s be a great addition, I also think it would help Finn improve out of sight.
We’ll take Daniel too while Crazy Bevo is doing his best Michael Douglas from Falling Down impersonation.

 

[LuckyLee]

It's probably more a case of us going the Geelong route and top up with with mature age players. We haven't been in the drafting position to get these 19 -22yo players. We got a flag and this year isn't out of the question. When we are in a better position to hit the draft, then we probably will. I think there's enough talent in the VFL to keep us up for quite a while yet. Sometimes we can look at our situation and think, we're stuffed going forward but things change so quickly in football. I really think we can get another flag or 2 in the next 5 years

Geelong supposedly only rebuilding with mature agers is a myth.

Last weekend, Geelong had the following five players aged 21 or younger:
Max Holmes (21)
Oliver Dempsey (21)
Tanner Bruhn (21)
Ollie Henry (21)
Jhye Clark (19)

Several of the above are already really important, high quality AFL players. Dempsey has only played 11 games and already looks like a star in the making.

Our five youngest against Hawks were:
Nick Daicos (21)
Reef McInnes (21)
Beau McCreery 22)
Isaac Quaynor (24)
Bobby Hill (24)



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[Axl the great]

You like to make big sweeping statements

Don’t agree with Kappa much usually, but he’s right, Johnson is lazy and lacks defensive intensity.

 

[manicpie]

Geelong supposedly only rebuilding with mature agers is a myth.

Last weekend, Geelong had the following five players aged 21 or younger:
Max Holmes (21)
Oliver Dempsey (21)
Tanner Bruhn (21)
Ollie Henry (21)
Jhye Clark (19)

Several of the above are already really important, high quality AFL players. Dempsey has only played 11 games and already looks like a star in the making.

Our five youngest against Hawks were:
Nick Daicos (21)
Reef McInnes (21)
Beau McCreery 22)
Isaac Quaynor (24)
Bobby Hill (24)



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Yeah that's true. But it's only been the last few years that they've hit the draft by losing guys like Kelly.

 

[LuckyLee]

It's a given that the Northern clubs are going to stay up the top for a long time. Their academies are working.

Geelong? Give me a package deal of their under 22s that we'd trade for Nick? Dogs? Likewise.

DOGS
Jamara Ugle-Hagen (22)
Sam Darcy (20)
Ryley Sanders (19)

CATS
Max Holmes (21)
Oliver Dempsey (21)
Ollie Henry (21)


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[Jen2310]

Yeah that's true. But it's only been the last few years that they've hit the draft by losing guys like Kelly.

which was 5 years ago in 2019
They missed out on ollie and bruhn after giving away their picks at the time, and then got them back a couple years later.
So they now have all three (Bruhn. Holmes. Ollie) from the 2020 draft who went at pick 12, 17 and 20.

 

[jmac70]

which was 5 years ago in 2019
They missed out on ollie and bruhn after giving away their picks at the time, and then got them back a couple years later.
So they now have all three (Bruhn. Holmes. Ollie) from the 2020 draft who went at pick 12, 17 and 20.

I really hate Geelong

 

[Jen2310]

With Ash, what we see is what we get.

 

[No SPIN]

They’re B-graders. If they were A-graders they’d have pushed their way in at the expense of our aging stars and fringe players like WHE and Lipinski. But they haven’t.

You need to take off your rose-coloured glasses and have a good look around the league - virtually every other side has several 19-22 yo players locked into their starting line-ups and playing very prominent roles. We don’t because ours just aren’t good enough, thanks to years of draft/trading/salary mismanagement.

I think you should brace yourself for the possibility of a few years of pain when Pendles, Sidey, Mitchell, Howe, Checkers and Jamie have all hung up the boots.


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The prevailing view here is that we should keep banking the wins and NOT blood youth - which I disagree with BTW.
So this idea that we have very ordinary youth is false, given they are starved of opportunity in trying to break into a Premiership side. Who are we dropping to give Allan, HH, Macrae, Ryan game time?

In weaker sides of course they are giving youth more opportunities.

 

[No SPIN]

No he doesn’t. In 2025 and 2026 he’ll need half a dozen mates of same age and A-grade quality around him but we just don’t have them and lack the draft picks to get them.

Have you seen what Brisbane, Sydney, GWS and Gold Coast have in their cupboards? Closer to home even Finals contenders Melbourne, Bulldogs and Geelong have recruited several A-grade kids who have come in and made a difference straight away.


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Who are the several A grade kids at each of Geel, Melb and Bulldogs who’ve made an immediate impact.

 

[LuckyLee]

The prevailing view here is that we should keep banking the wins and NOT blood youth - which I disagree with BTW.
So this idea that we have very ordinary youth is false, given they are starved of opportunity in trying to break into a Premiership side. Who are we dropping to give Allan, HH, Macrae, Ryan game time?

In weaker sides of course they are giving youth more opportunities.

Guys like WHE, Lipinski, Sidebottom, Frampton, Noble, Cox should have been pushed aside by now if we had genuine A-grade talent in our development ranks, as was the case with the likes of O’Bree, Lockyer, Medhurst, Anthony, etc over our strong, Premiership winning 2009-2011 period. But this time around we don’t have the talent.


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[LuckyLee]

Who are the several A grade kids at each of Geel, Melb and Bulldogs who’ve made an immediate impact.

Off the top of my head…

Dogs - Weightman, Darcy & Sanders
Cats - De Koning, Holmes & Dempsey
Dees - Van Rooyan, Windsor, McVee

All of the above came into the seniors of Finals contending teams aged 18-20 and within a very short space of time established themselves as Best 22 players.

Apart from Nick, we’d have to go back to DeGoey and Moore to find players who have achieved immediate impact at that age. Macrae and Reef haven’t managed it. Maybe Allan or DiMattia will.


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[memoryofmchale]

Off the top of my head…

Dogs - Weightman, Darcy & Sanders
Cats - De Koning, Holmes & Dempsey
Dees - Van Rooyan, Windsor, McVee

All of the above came into the seniors of Finals contending teams aged 18-20 and within a very short space of time established themselves as Best 22 players.

Apart from Nick, we’d have to go back to DeGoey and Moore to find players who have achieved immediate impact at that age. Macrae and Reef haven’t managed it. Maybe Allan or DiMattia will.


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Allan won’t be debuting for some time yet unless there’s a crisis. Bytel, Sullivan, HH, Macrae all ahead.

DeMattia likewise. He has had limited exposure against men. Pre-season hype is pre-season hype.

 

[Jen2310]

Off the top of my head…

Dogs - Weightman, Darcy & Sanders
Cats - De Koning, Holmes & Dempsey
Dees - Van Rooyan, Windsor, McVee

All of the above came into the seniors of Finals contending teams aged 18-20 and within a very short space of time established themselves as Best 22 players.

Apart from Nick, we’d have to go back to DeGoey and Moore to find players who have achieved immediate impact at that age. Macrae and Reef haven’t managed it. Maybe Allan or DiMattia will.


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Dempsey this is his 3rd year and he's played 2, 5, and 4 games since being drafted. Again, he is only finding a place now he has developed a bit more. Probably not the best comparision.
Also with their injuries and retirements, there was always spots up for grabs. We have yet to have that for those to get opportunity. Have generally had a pretty healthy list overall.

JVR took over a year or so to get a debut
Sanders is very nick like with his professionalism and was a decent pick, so was always gonna play early.

 

[LuckyLee]

Allan won’t be debuting for some time yet unless there’s a crisis. Bytel, Sullivan, HH, Macrae all ahead.

DeMattia likewise. He has had limited exposure against men. Pre-season hype is pre-season hype.

Yes, you’re likely correct, which gets me back to my original point that there’s a cliff approaching, as our oldies drop off without adequate replacements or the top end draft picks to bring them in.


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[satanshoof101]

Keeler has all the tricks but application was his issue apparently. Fix his application and he’d be the pick of the bunch on pure talent and x-factor.
Van Ess had great combine results for his size and definitely worth considering.
Derksen in MSD - is he better than Sof?
My recollection was many had high hopes for him, so not sure why he hasn’t kicked on.

Derksen is better than Sof, he has out performed both Riccardi and Cadman in VFL. Kicked bags many times, racked it up as a ruckmen now is playing in the back. I understand that begs the question why is he not playing, I have heard he is pretty close but stuck behind some pretty good KPP.

I am not saying Derksen is a lock for making it AFL but his VFL stats are quite good. He signed a two year extension as a MSD, they must see something in him.

Edit: Also not saying these are fixes, I think we made it difficult on ourselves trading a future 1st.

 

[memoryofmchale]

Derksen is better than Sof, he has out performed both Riccardi and Cadman in VFL. Kicked bags many times, racked it up as a ruckmen now is playing in the back. I understand that begs the question why is he not playing, I have heard he is pretty close but stuck behind some pretty good KPP.

I am not saying Derksen is a lock for making it AFL but his VFL stats are quite good. He signed a two year extension as a MSD, they must see something in him.

Edit: Also not saying these are fixes, I think we made it difficult on ourselves trading a future 1st.

Frampton came from the SANFL so there is merit.

 

[LuckyLee]

Dempsey this is his 3rd year and he's played 2, 5, and 4 games since being drafted. Again, he is only finding a place now he has developed a bit more. Probably not the best comparision.
Also with their injuries and retirements, there was always spots up for grabs. We have yet to have that for those to get opportunity. Have generally had a pretty healthy list overall.

JVR took over a year or so to get a debut
Sanders is very nick like with his professionalism and was a decent pick, so was always gonna play early.

The guys I named have made the jump - they’re now bona fide long-term AFL players in their respective teams. And for each of them it took less than a dozen games to prove it.

So far Fin and Reef haven’t managed it over longer periods, whilst others like Allan aren’t showing enough to get a run, despite the age profile of our list. Perhaps TJ or Steene will make the jump?




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[Jen2310]

The guys I named have made the jump - they’re now bona fide long-term AFL players in their respective teams. And for each of them it took less than a dozen games to prove it.

So far Fin and Reef haven’t managed it over longer periods, whilst others like Allan aren’t showing enough to get a run, despite the age profile of our list. Perhaps TJ or Steene will make the jump?




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Reef will now be playing most weeks from now on, so we'll be able to see how much he can improve this year, but so far he's been doing okay. And given this is his first multiple game stint in over a year, think he's treking fine.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

With Ash, what we see is what we get.

Not sure that's accurate. With Cox what you see is what you get, but AJ has talent to burn. Consistency, application and confidence has always been the issue but it would be entirely ignorant to think that those issues suggest the talent isn't there.