Our young list is about to get younger

[The Royal Sampler]

If you believe the stories;

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24340450-19742,00.html

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24342978-19742,00.html

Then we are looking at the retirement of Burns (33) and Wakelin (33), probably within the next week. You can add to that Brodie Holland (29), and probably Ryan Lonie (26). There is a distinct possibility that Ben Johnson (26) and Rhyce Shaw (26) have played their last games for the club too.

All that adds up to well over 50 years of footy experience, which is a sobering thought. Obviously, everyone on our list ages by one year, but even so we're going to be a younger team again in 2009. One person who might offset that is Ben Cousins (30), who if added to the list might also serve as a mentor for a new, young captain if one is needed. Cousins operated in a somewhat-similar capacity for Judd in the Eagles' premiership year of 2006, after being himself stripped of the captaincy. Another is the 26 year-old Daniel Harris, much mooted trade target, but today's media suggests the Roos are keen to retain him (he has a year of his contract to run anyway).

Anyway, if youth is the source of inconsistency of performance, then perhaps we can expect another year of dizzying highs and death-defying lows in 2009.

 

[Thommo 42]

would like to get another year out of Burns, happy for the rest to retire

 

[chirpymagpie]

Yes, I am worried about a team that is too young as well, but at the same time it is time to go for a few players..

 

[mattys123]

Maybe it is that crisis point time, when we have to take a slight step backwards in order to be able to compete for a flag in 2-3 years.

If we do lose all those players, and dont gain Cousins, we will have the youngest list competing for the 8.

If we take one step back, and play more debutants next year, 2010 and 2011 may be our realistic shot at a flag, as I still dont see the current list as a flag chance next year.

 

[wobbles]

Would it not be a smart move to retain S Burns on our coaches list should he decide to retire. He all the attributes of a coach in the making.

 

[PendlePie]

Maybe it is that crisis point time, when we have to take a slight step backwards in order to be able to compete for a flag in 2-3 years.

If we do lose all those players, and dont gain Cousins, we will have the youngest list competing for the 8.

If we take one step back, and play more debutants next year, 2010 and 2011 may be our realistic shot at a flag, as I still dont see the current list as a flag chance next year.

Agreed. Thing is if we get rid of all the players PieLebo mentioned I think we'll find it extremely difficult to make finals next year - and if we don't we won't get rewarded with draft picks, which is a worry.

But if we do get another heap of older players retiring as we did last year, then in about 3 years time we will reap the rewards of it IMO. Short term pain for long term gain kinda thing, hopefully

 

[Shellz]

I want Burns to go for another year... so does Josh Fraser!

 

[smiddaz123]

We should try and hold on to a couple of trade bait players and try to trade them to GC17. They wont be using all their draft picks to draft players. They'll be wanting established players too.

Depending on Rusling's year next year, he could be a potential one.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Would it not be a smart move to retain S Burns on our coaches list should he decide to retire. He all the attributes of a coach in the making.

Rumour has it in the Papers, he might be going over to the Cats or Blues. Then again it is the papers...

 

[swiftdog]

Maybe it is that crisis point time, when we have to take a slight step backwards in order to be able to compete for a flag in 2-3 years.

If we do lose all those players, and dont gain Cousins, we will have the youngest list competing for the 8.

If we take one step back, and play more debutants next year, 2010 and 2011 may be our realistic shot at a flag, as I still dont see the current list as a flag chance next year.

Yeah, this was my chain of thought also. Our list seems to draw some parralels with the Geelong of three years ago. They were bundled out of a prelim in 04, then in a semi in 05, you know the rest. We were bundled out in the prelims in 07, in the semis in 08 etc.

 

[Shoulz]

Burns is overdue and presti wakes and obree byeee

 

[Shoulz]

oh and cook catchya!

 

[mdc]

Burns is a big loss, the rest aren't up to it anymore.

 

[Krueger]

Burns is overdue and presti wakes and obree byeee

Burns must play on. As for Presti and Wakes both in one year you got be joking. Would mean Nathan Brown would be our only key defender and that would be suicide!

 

[Jabso]

Call me a skeptic but I find it hard to believe any media story that basically comes out and says player X is actually leaving especially after the The Australian in a lunge for ratings said that Didak was definately gone.

He's still a 50% chance to go on next year.

I also think despite what Mick says we may hold on to both Presti and Wakelin (although unlikely).

 

[Pie 4 Life]

If we played consistently well like we did against Geelong, West Coast, ANZAC Day etc. we would be a top four team for sure, it's that consistency that's the problem.

 

[Bloben]

Call me a skeptic but I find it hard to believe any media story that basically comes out and says player X is actually leaving especially after the The Australian in a lunge for ratings said that Didak was definately gone.

He's still a 50% chance to go on next year.

I also think despite what Mick says we may hold on to both Presti and Wakelin (although unlikely).

Realistically due to the age of both Wakes and Presti we are unlikely to be able to get 22 games out of either. If we were to keep both though we could hope that one would be fit enough to take the side.

It is funny how around this time of year two years ago Malthouse told Wakes that he would no longer be considered first choice and that he is likely to only play VFL. The last two years have been some of his best. Can he go on once more?? Can Presti stay fit?? Perhaps it is worth the risk of keeping him on the list next year as that emergency player again.

 

[Jabso]

If all those players do go I can't see us going much further than we did this year unless Thomas and Pendlebury explode. Last year I thought at best we'd make it to the prelim again (whether top 4 or bottom half of the 8) with the retirements of Buckley and Clement (Clement especially) and it would still be a good progressive year if we continue to turn over new players and I think we've done that. Obviously the turn over is not complete but IMO we are closer to a flag than the end of last year.

 

[Bonuspoints]

If Burns, Wakelin and Holland retire, with Lonie, Johnson and Rhyce Shaw moved on, we won't be getting cousins. That sort of move tells me we're going to take a step backwards in an attempt to leap forwards later. It probably does save guys like Cook, Cox, Egan, Stanley and possibly Iles and Toovey to be held onto for another year. Might be a plan to have something we're willing to part with to offer up to the GC.

Its the 2010 draft thats being handed over to the GC right? They made some eligibility changes for the 2009 draft to ensure that 2010 is nice and juicy for the GC. So I guess the 2009 one won't be deep, but there still should be quality players in the first round with some good potential players in the second. You just won't see much in the third or fourth round.

To be honest, I can't see us getting much for R Shaw or Johnson. These guys have had the same deficiencies for years and yet have not improved them at all. They've only got a couple of years of competitive footy left in them before they start to drop off so who is going to cough up anythign for them. I reckon clubs will be hard pressed to cough up 2nd round draft picks let alone first rounders.

 

[Real Insight]

Could Shaw be the first player to finish top 5 in our B&F and be delisted in the same season?

 

[Dave The Man]

List shake-up likely for Pies

Michael Gleeson | September 15, 2008

THE generational change that has engulfed Collingwood in the past 12 months moved a step further yesterday when Shane Wakelin became the first of possibly several players at the club to retire.
Flanker Ryan Lonie is understood to have also decided to put an end to his playing career after long battles with injury early in the season allowed him to play just one senior game for the year.
Captain Scott Burns' future remains, as it has each year, a matter to be resolved in discussion with Michael Malthouse in the next fortnight. He is keenly sought by a number of clubs as an assistant coach when he finally does stop playing.
Brodie Holland is likely to retire while the future of midfielder Ben Johnson, the subject of a blistering attack by president Eddie McGuire at the height of the Heath Shaw/Alan Didak fiasco, remains cloudy.
Wakelin's 252 game career ended where it began on Saturday night against St Kilda, the club where the 34-year-old's AFL career began. His retirement is likely to mean that Simon Prestigiacomo — who managed just one game this season through serious injury — will play on.
Collingwood finished sixth this year after fourth last year, in a year of transition following the retirements of Nathan Buckley, James Clement and Paul Licuria then the injuries to Anthony Rocca, Sean Rusling, Ben Reid and Prestigiacomo.
In the broader picture, making finals and winning one final yet finishing slightly lower on the ladder than last year was a passable effort, while new players in John Anthony, Nathan Brown, Chris Dawes, Sharrod Wellingham, John McCarthy and ruckman Cameron Wood have been brought into the fold.
The most crucial decision the club now confronts is not over retirements but over what to do — or not do as the case may be — with Alan Didak.
Collingwood already needs to find a class midfielder either through the draft or trades, and losing Didak would mean it would need to find two.
"The future is bright. We have got another three or four or five guys to come in — Danny Stanley hasn't played much (and) Benny Johnson. The tall forwards have been missing, but we have a fair bit of depth there and you need an element of luck in any season, we were fighting against it most of the second half of the year," acting captain Josh Fraser said after the semi-final loss.
For others such as Harry O'Brien and Tyson Goldsack the freshness of the loss made it too raw to consider the big picture. The small picture was that Collingwood lost a game it was expected to win — something that has been a problem for it all year.
"It is just heartbreaking to come so close last year and to not even get that far this year is pretty disappointing. We were aiming to get to at least the next game and to go down like that and to lose to a side we have beaten twice this year was tough," Goldsack said.
"During the year we lost to Carlton a couple of times when we probably should have won those and the games we should have won we didn't. It was nights like tonight we should get over the line and we just couldn't so hopefully we will work on that in the pre-season and next year we will be winning these type of games."
One of the things it will doubtless need to work on in those sessions is dealing with an opposition with a strong key forward that elects to play a seven and eight-man defence.
St Kilda employed the tactic effectively on Saturday night, as Carlton also did this year.
On Saturday night Collingwood was ineffectual forward and seemingly incapable of penetrating a forward line clogged with opposition defenders.

Story Here

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Yep, that confirms the loss of Wakes (33), likely loss of Holland (29) and Lonie (26). Another article in The Australian casts doubt over Johnson (26), Burns (33), and Egan. Also says R Shaw's (26) "departure card has been marked".

 

[Jabso]

If we played consistently well like we did against Geelong, West Coast, ANZAC Day etc. we would be a top four team for sure, it's that consistency that's the problem.

If we played like that consistently we'd be premiership favorites.

 

[sirlothie]

We're a little too young... you could say. I think pain still lingers from the mid-late 90's generation of pain and our chronic inability to find genuine pace and footskills has lead to perhaps an unhealthy overreliance and faith in youth, I am happy to let this generation of youngsters grow and become the cornerstone of the club as I have a lot of faith in them but let's not go overboard in trying to become a team of 20 year olds...

The foundation is laid for the future now we just need to top up every year in areas we foresee the need, hopefully we will begin to have the foresight to draft what we will need in 3-4 years rather than being in dire straits in a position due to retirements and trying to find an 18 year old to fill a grown man's boots or trading away 1st round draft picks to fill defiencies for players that aren't even proven they can do the job yet.

That's going to take a few years if it happens because we lack in a lot of areas just as we prosper in a lot of others. We are just not a balanced, mature list yet as much as that pains me to admit and hence why we are inconsistent and unable to match it with the ladder leaders on a permanent basis.

There is hope if this is identified and we begin to make amends and not rest on our laurels that what we already have will get the job done because clearly it will not or else it already would have.

I don't want 30 players under 23, I want a balanced, confident and mature list with no glaring weaknesses anywhere and a couple of areas where we are elite and stamp ourselves on the league as the leaders of it but the weaknesses destroy our strengths too bloody often.

 

[sirlothie]

30 players under 23 is exactly how Geelong built their premiership team..

When it matured they had 90% of the team aged between 23 and 27.. basically all in their prime!

Having an even spread from 18yrs to 32yrs is not the preferred option because only a small percentage are actually in their prime

We have 30 players under 23 at the moment with Wellingham, Macaffer and Reed elevated

Their window opens 2010 and if the talent is there then much like Geelong all of them will mature together

That's how to win a premiership!

Point taken but I think we are too strong in some areas making us weak in others, we should be active in trade week this year I hope. Just because they are young doesn't mean they will be good as well but this group does show a lot of signs... just need to plug the gaps and find consistency.

We probably should follow the Geelong blueprint from here on out but we aren't blessed with Ablett, Bartel, Ling, Wocjinski, Corey, Rooke and Prismall to build around... it's more than youth than got them where they are right now, they have the strongest and best midfield going around.

I would be stunned if I ever lived to hear myself say that about Collingwood.