proman_x
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Agreed. He needs to be more consistent. Tod has the talent but does not seem to be in the rite head space.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Player Watch Pick #16 (2016) - Todd Marshall
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Agreed. He needs to be more consistent. Tod has the talent but does not seem to be in the rite head space.
I don't think anyone is asking for 2 goals a game - given Marshall is currently going at 1.03 goals a game across the journey that would be pretty fanciful. If he can compete strongly and return around 1.5 goals a game most would be pretty happy. Re the ragging on Dixon, if Marshall could give 25% of the fight and contest that Charlie delivers week in week out it would be a big step up.
In 2020 and 2021 Marshall played 35 games and kicked 35 goals. There were years that for all our forward line dysfunction we were good enough to finish top 4 and make prelims. He started this year with two shockers and then had a good day against the Crows, albeit in a game where both Himmelberg and Gallant kicked 4 and where he was able to take chest marks out the front of Billy Frampton. The challenge now is to back it up against good opposition when the heat is on - something he has not been able to do to date
You're the one repeating it. It was mentioned once on here as what someone would like to see. You've been holding onto it like a rabid dog. Since the subject came up, you are the runaway leader of 15 posts containing the term "2 goals".
It doesn't matter what we expect of Todd, even if it was 2 goals. Performance is what counts and he is nowhere near 2 goals, he is just over half that.
You have turned what was predominantly a cluster of posts basically saying 'good game keep it up' into a whingefest about how the majority of us apparently expect him to kick '2 goals plus a few bags a game' when the indisputable reality is he struggles to kick 1 on average.
Congratulations. As a well known defender of the lad count yourself proud.
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Philthy is simply reacting to the long history of people on this forum not knowing what a reasonable output is for key forwards in this league.
Absolutely Todd needs to continue to grow as a player and have more influence. If the forward entry is more like the first 3 quarters against the Crows and less like the rest of the last 5 years, he'll have the opportunity to grow.
But only 13 key forwards kicked 40 goals last year (including finals), and only the Bulldogs had 2 players do it.
In 2019, 8 KPFs kicked 40
In 2018, 11 KPFs kicked 40
(Both including finals)
40 goals is an elite return in the modern era, and it would be especially elite in a defensive team with our forward structure. Dixon has probably cost himself 100 career goals by joining us instead of literally anyone else.
Let's hope we can get a new coach and a normal gameplan so we can get the best out of Marshall and Georgiades.
Absolutely Todd needs to continue to grow as a player and have more influence. If the forward entry is more like the first 3 quarters against the Crows and less like the rest of the last 5 years, he'll have the opportunity to grow.
But only 13 key forwards kicked 40 goals last year (including finals), and only the Bulldogs had 2 players do it.
In 2019, 8 KPFs kicked 40
In 2018, 11 KPFs kicked 40
(Both including finals)
40 goals is an elite return in the modern era, and it would be especially elite in a defensive team with our forward structure. Dixon has probably cost himself 100 career goals by joining us instead of literally anyone else.
Let's hope we can get a new coach and a normal gameplan so we can get the best out of Marshall and Georgiades.
I agree with your statement about what he needs to do and what would help the entire forward.
However your stats are VERY wrong. Unless I am mistaken (and I did check two sources), 19 players did it in 2021 including finals.
As for only the Bulldogs statement: Kennedy and Darling. Franklin and Papley. Cameron and Daniher. There were at least 6 other teams who had two players do it. You might as well add Geelong who technically missed out because Cameron kicked 39 goals in only 14 games so there is him and Hawkins.
2019 and 2018 are way off as well.
Its not just the scoring though. Its how many marks he contests, how many balls he brings to ground, how sore his opponents are when they get up from a tackle ffs. Butters opponents finish a game feeling like they have participated in a prison yard game of football. Marshall's opponents (excepting maybe the Showdown and several others) finish feeling like they have played in a grammar school football game. At the very least he needs to play with more intensity.
AFL Stats - AFL.com.au
Most Goals | 2021 AFL Statistics
What’s your benchmark? You happy with the 1 goal a game that Todd delivered in 2020 and 2021 in a team that made prelims both years and that scored more goals in that time than 80% of the teams in the league? Or you just going to give more of your developing kid / shit forward structure excuses?
Yeah. Basically.
If he’s getting a goal, setting others up and using his skills up the field then I’m happy that he’s a much better option than playing another small like mcintee.
I thought 24 goals last year was a decent but not amazing return.
I want to see him improve from a “decent chf” to a very good to excellent chf though, and it wouldn’t take much to do that.
would I expect a chf / 2nd 3rd kf to get 40 odd goals a year? If he was I would be asking what’s happened to our other 2 kfs?
Cause the only ways he’s getting that chance is if they aren’t playing
When was the last time 3 kfs kicked 40+ goals each?
2014. Hawthorn did it. In 2017 Adelaide had 3 forwards who kicked over 45 goals and Lynch kicked 31. There may have been more recent
How often does a team play 3kfs for the entire year anyway. Not including a part time resting ruck. Your question is for shit because it is framed from an extremely small sample size to begin with.
Even so Marshall hasn't kicked 40 goals, 30 goals or even 25 goals yet so maybe you are right we should set our expectations much lower.
Waspy79
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He's been tried as the third key tall and as a high half forward, and mostly failed at both. He failed as the second ruck on Friday night.
It seems to me his best position is standing Billy Frampton in an open forward line.
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Cameron and Papley aren't key forwards. I'll give you Darling and Kennedy, I missed them. My numbers are correct though.
Marshall is our 2nd or 3rd tall forward. To expect him to kick 40 goals given our forward strategy is not grounded in reality at this stage of his career.
Elite smalls and medium forwards are a different prospect and play a different role with different responsibilities. I'd expect Fantasia to kick 40 goals without too many issues if he could get on the park.
Waspy79
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Did you watch him ruck in the Showdown? On that metric.
But Todd can play tall or small and indeed a lot of his best work has nothing to do with the fact that he is 197cm. So why exclude all the other forwards from this equation. Most games he does not do anything a medium forward couldn't do.
If your response to how often do 3 kfs kick 40+ goals is to refer back to 2014 and 2017 you have to admit it’s incredibly rare.
Also, just checked the crows one and they didn’t.
Walker 54 after finals run to gf - 49 in the reg season
Jenkins 45 after finals - reg season - 40
Tom lynch 31 after finals - 28 in reg season.
And after checking the hawks claim they also didn’t do it in 2014..
Lol
The old eye test. Righto
Thought he gave more than Finlayson as 2nd ruck and what you expect for a 15%er ruck rather than a genuine ruck forward who does closer to 30%
- Aug 21, 2007
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Okay.
The last non-key position forward we had kick 40 goals was Robbie in 2017. He also did it in 2014. Wingard did it in 2013, 2014 and 2015, then we forced him out of the club.
Before that you have to go back to 2007, a different era of football.
It's not like we're holding a bunch of superstar small and medium forwards back to give Marshall a run here. He's been backed in for 2 seasons and he's been 4th in our goalkicking both seasons.
At least the forward entries finally changed from kick it in long and high and Charlie can bring it to the ground for our dangerous stalls . Marshall and Finlayson just aren’t strong enough for that .The kick it into space for Marshall to lead into was way better . His tacking was really good and he kicked straight.
If the lad gets to build some serious confidence and belief he might yet become top level
If the lad gets to build some serious confidence and belief he might yet become top level
Problem with Marshall is that just when you think he might arrive he disappoints again. So what does the objective evidence say? Well on a quick review I can’t find another KPF who averages fewer goals a game. He’s currently tracking just a little behind behemoths of the competition like Levi Casboult and Sam Weidemann. Darcy Fogarty clearly has him covered. And he can only dream of matching the 1.2 goals a game that Mason Cox delivers. Unless he turns it around quick, these are the sort of players with whom he will be bracketed and it’s going to be a disappointing career that never delivered on its promise
- Aug 21, 2007
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Based on your analysis of the objective evidence here, would you trade him for Darcy Fogarty?
You said 'a year' in your original post . Now to suit your purposes it has to be regular season
. It may have been done more recently or more often. I only checked Grand Finalists for each year.How often do 3+ permanent tall forwards play together for the vast majority of the year anyway. Your sample size is small to begin with. Its no suprise that an event occurring within it doesn't happen to often.
So the following is now beyond dispute.
- It is infrequent that a club selects the same 3 permanent key forwards for almost every game in one season.
- It is rare that every one of those selcted forwards kicks 40 goals in that season.
- This somehow proves one or two posters in this forum have unrealistic expectations of Todd Marshall, having expressed a desire to see him kick 2 goals a game average or the lesser 40 goals a year.
- Particularly when last season he kicked 1.1 goals a game or 24 goals total
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I gave the totals for both reg season and inc finals. You were wrong by both counts.View attachment 1363896
You said 'a year' in your original post . Now to suit your purposes it has to be regular season
How often do 3+ permanent tall forwards play together for the vast majority of the year anyway. Your sample size is small to begin with. Its no suprise that an event occurring within it doesn't happen to often.
So the following is now beyond dispute.
Got it.
- It is infrequent that a club selects the same 3 permanent key forwards for almost every game in one season.
- It is rare that every one of those selcted forwards kicks 40 goals in that season.
- This somehow proves one or two posters in this forum have unrealistic expectations of Todd Marshall, having expressed a desire to see him kick 2 goals a game average or the lesser 40 goals a year.
- Particularly when last season he kicked 1.1 goals a game or 24 goals total
It’s not that infrequent that a team plays 3 kfs to make the fact that they all kick 40+ goals a season an incredibly rare feat.
plenty have played 3 or more over the years. Quite a few teams played 3 this past weekend.
I just checked and it has been done once in modern football. Once. By the hawks in 2013. Franklin , roughhead and gunstan.
3 all-aus level players (a hall of famer - maybe more than one) in a premiership team (considered one of the goats) in a different era.
The fact you keep pretending like 3 kfs kicking 40+ goals is a reasonable benchmarks shows you up as a stubborn person who’s dug in for the sake of it.
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